Monday, July 22, 2013


Lesbian Vocabulary, U-Hauls, and the Family That Comes Out Together

Just so you know, I'm straight. You're the best person to help me because I need to "come out" to my ultra-conservative, evangelical Christian family. I have not been involved in their religion in many years, but I was raised in it. Since becoming an adult and leaving the church, I have some family members who have become distant or cold, some who actively try to save me, and some who treat me like they always have. My entire extended family belongs to this religion.

Growing up in the church, I knew marriage meant that I would find a nice boy, settle down, and be a good submissive wife. Yuck. So, I told all my family for years (since I was a pre-teen) that I was not interested in marriage or children. When I left the church, I had a few short flings, a few one night stands, and a wonderful long-term relationship that I kept private from my family. It ruined my long-term relationship, and I don't blame him for not understanding why I didn't feel comfortable sharing our relationship with my mom or siblings. It's messed up!

My family thinks I'm a weird loner who isn't interested in love, and I'm OK with being different, but thats not really true. If I tell them I'm in a relationship with someone who is not from the church, they will try to change my mind. If they know I'm having sex (i.e. spending the night away from home) they will shun me. I will be the worst kind of sinner and a bad influence and no longer acceptable to them. I love my family (they're really nice people and very supportive despite what I just wrote above), and I don't want to have to choose between them and finding a life partner.

I guess I should mention that I actually do want marriage, kids, the whole package. And I like sex, so giving that up isn't something I want either. How do I keep enough of my life private so that I'm not treated like the antichrist, but let them in on enough so that I don't feel like a rebellious teen and alienate all future love interests? Is this even possible? I just want them to understand that I'm the same person they love, no matter what I do in the privacy of my bedroom.

One more thing, after the economic crisis hit, my mom and younger sister (14 years old) needed help. I've been supporting them financially for the past three years. Mom now has a good job and hopefully they will be moving out soon. In the meantime, we have to live together which is extra motivation to stay on good terms.

Oh, wow, I totally agree. Living together on your dime for three years is definitely plenty of motivation for your mom to stay on good terms with you. You should absolutely remind her of that any time she gets it into her head to tell you what you can and can't do with your own personal life. It is not your responsibility to sneak around for the sake of making peace—especially when you're already sacrificing your money, time, and personal space for your mother's comfort.

You're right: you need to come out. You don't need to say “Mom, I'm having premarital sex, and here's a list of my favorite positions,” but you need to stop hiding your wants and needs from your family. Pretending to be someone you're not (uninterested in sex, partnership, having kids) to cover up the person you are (interested in all of those things, just uninterested in religion) is not a feasible long-term strategy. As countless gay people with conservative families have learned before you, it's not possible to have an open, healthy, loving relationship with someone who fundamentally doesn't respect an important part of who you are. The fear and distrust will curdle inside you and, even if you never confess to a single non-religion-approved kiss, your frustration and resentment will eventually ruin your relationship with your family.

I think when you boil it down, there are only two basic things an advice columnist ever tells anyone. The first is “take responsibility for your own shit,” and the second is, “understand that the only shit you can take responsibility for is your own.” Right now, you need to do both.  Being honest with your mother and the rest of your family is a step you need to take toward being a happy, healthy, grown-ass women, but you'll also have to accept the fact that their reaction is beyond your control. Chances are good that after an initial freaking-out period, they'll think it over and realize that having you in their lives is much more important than any differences in ideology. But that part is out of your hands. All you can do is be true to yourself and give them the opportunity to accept you and love you as you are.

So, I’m a lady who doesn’t know how to think of herself anymore, and I could use some advice. My earliest memory of wondering about gayness is when I read some article by a woman saying, "it doesn't make you gay if you feel attracted to women! It could just mean you think they're pretty!" And I was like, "oh, thank goodness! That means I'm not gay!" My first crush on a boy a year later was met with similar relief. And from that moment on, I was straight.

I had one serious crush on a girl in high school, but I couldn’t sort out whether I liked her romantically or whether I just wanted to BE her. That’s the last time I crushed on a woman. I also continued to have many crushes on men, and in college I began dating seriously and fell in love with a guy. After we broke up, I casually dated a ton of men. And I enjoyed it, and I didn’t feel like I was missing anything at all. Most of this time, I wasn’t even thinking there was a possibility I was anything besides straight. That one girl crush was a fluke, I thought.

A couple of years ago I started thinking, well, maybe I should try sleeping with a lady just to see what it’s like! But again, I just assumed I could not possibly be bi because I didn’t ‘feel’ bi, whatever that means. I didn’t feel closeted, or repressed, or anything. I felt like a straight women, because that’s what I’d always been. A straight woman who simply… kept thinking about sleeping with women. Totally normal!

Well, so it finally happened recently, at age 25. I did sleep with a woman. And I found it to be pretty awesome and something I’d love to do more of. But now I feel like don’t know what my deal is, and I feel like I don’t deserve to call myself queer. I’m terrified that I’m actually really straight and just being a ladysex tourist, or that I’ll get serious with some girl and then realize I can’t do it, and that no one wants me around in any sort of lesbian context whatsoever.

I don’t know how to go from here. I don’t know how to explain my identity to anyone, or to myself. And I’m really, really worried that I’m in the same class as sorority girls making out at a party for male attention. Eep.

If I could wave a magic wand and change one thing about the world, I think what I'd like to do—more than getting rid of the Tea Party or making student loans payable in mediocre poetry—is get rid of the entirely natural, entirely human, entirely useless impulse to “explain our identities,” specifically when it comes to sex. Sexual identities (gay, straight, bisexual, queer, etc.) were created as descriptors for behaviors and feelings—whom you fuck, whom you'd like to fuck, whom you're attracted to, whom you love. What you do and what you want determines what you call yourself; what you call yourself doesn't determine what you're allowed to do.

So: if you want to fuck girls, but you're nervous about calling yourself a lesbian, you should just go ahead and fuck girls. That's really the fun part of being a lesbian. The rest is just vocabulary. If you're trying to pick up on a lady, and she's like, “So are you gay or what?” you can just shrug enigmatically and say, “I don't really like labels, you know?” and she will probably find you complicated and sexy.

But, for what it's worth, I think you can go ahead and call yourself gay or queer or bisexual or whatever sounds right to you. You like sex with women but you're unsure whether a relationship with a woman will work out (spoiler alert: it won't! At least not the first few times! Everyone gets their heart broken right out of the gate, so have fun with that!). That's perfectly normal and in no way similar to making out with girls at frat parties while dudes cheer you on. You're not a tourist; you're more like someone on a work visa who's thinking seriously about emigrating and staying permanently, or at least trying for dual citizenship. As far as we're concerned, you're welcome to stay as long as you want.

It's not at all unusual for people to discover—or at least get around to exploring—their queerness later in life, and it doesn't make your feelings any less authentic. I get that you're nervous about committing to a label other than “straight,” but don't let your fear stand in the way of who you want to be—or who you want to be with.

Six months ago, my mom started dating a woman. Her very first girlfriend. Most people I tell this to say "Yay! That's so great! She's finally OUT!" but the relationship she has is incredibly off-putting for reasons besides gender.

My parents have been divorced for about eight years, since I was 18, and my mother has dated a few men in varying degrees of seriousness. She met her current girlfriend through work and things happened pretty fucking quickly. On both ends. My mom, who has never even considered dating or being attracted to a woman before, fell pretty hard. The now-GF quickly exited an eight-year relationship in another state, leaving behind her car, dog and several properties she co-owns with her former girlfriend and moving to be in the same city as my mother. A little strange, no? But my mom insists this breakup had nothing to do with her.

I can believe that there was no overlap between these two relationships and that their breakup was a long time coming. I can believe that my mother fell in love with a woman without necessarily having been a repressed lesbian her whole life. However, I can't believe that my mother had no inner turmoil whatsoever about suddenly dating a woman. Right? I mean, she says she didn't have a second thought about it! I can understand if a person grew up with someone as open-minded as my mother raising her/ him, but she grew up in a super Catholic family in the '60s. Isn't there some inherent discomfort one might have to overcome?

Furthermore, we all know love is grand, but on the flip side it's super blinding and consuming. It just seems like... no brakes here. They are talking of international travel and even moving to New York together (and in the process my mother will leave her job and start to do the work her girlfriend does. NYC also happens to be where I live, not that I'm a factor in her moving whatsoever. A whole other ball of crap). Again, they have been together for SIX MONTHS. And it is the first relationship my mother has had with a woman. And also is she going through a mid-life crisis? Am I being small-minded to see this first lesbian relationship as almost like the first time you fall in love all over again? It feels like that. Except this isn't the first lesbian relationship her girlfriend has been in, and she's still renting a car instead of you know, just going to get her car from the house she used to live in with her girlfriend of eight years. These people seem like they should know better, only based on the fact that they have years of experience. My mom has been so consumed by this relationship that she's stopped doing shit she used to do, and even pushed back a professional exam. Then she almost FORGOT about this professional exam and had to cram for it in like a weekend and mom, you're in your fifties, what is going on.

Is there any way to be like "can't you chill for a minute?" before she goes to crazytown or is she already there??? I'm trying to get over the discomfort I feel with like, hey, there's a person sleeping over while I'm staying in the next room and they're giggling all night (FOR REAL) and here she is christmas morning and I have to pretend I know her well enough to get her a gift? And why is she being so nice to my mom and paying for everything and driving her everywhere? And why is she sooooooo boring to talk to and where is her personality? But ignoring all these other standard uncomfortable "parent in a new relationship" feelings, I'm still left with thinking that this is a bad idea that will end in tears.

Please please please help. I feel like I should be reacting like everyone else to this news and being overjoyed with how awesome gay people are or something. Like I'm wondering, do I feel weird about this because deeply in my heart I don't want her to be a lesbian? And then I'm just picking and choosing these details to support this? Or is this sounding a little bad to you, too? I think I'm very open! I've even had a girlfriend before, too! A relationship that lasted longer than this one has. But I just don't see why they can't take it slow. What's the rush? I mean, the joke about the lesbians and the U-hauls and is that seriously true? UGH.

I'm sorry, folks; I hate to perpetuate stereotypes, but yes, lesbians and U-hauls are totally a thing. They're not a thing across the board, but women who are heavily into early, intense commitment make up a sizable minority of the lesbian community. (Shoutout to my friend who coined the phrase “Big Lesbian U-haul Party” to describe one of her relationships.) It's also a thing that women experiencing girl-on-girl love for the first time after a lifetime of heterosexuality fall way hard and way fast. For some people, discovering same-sex attraction is like starting over from adolescence—with all the giddy optimism, swooning romanticism, and annoying the living shit out of your family members that implies.

It does sound like your mom is going a little overboard with this new relationship, but ultimately, that's her decision to make. It is a truth universally acknowledged that there is nothing an outside observer can say that will make a person in an obsessive, all-consuming relationship reconsider or withdraw from said relationship.

And, honestly, nothing you're describing sounds unduly worrying to me. Yes, they're rushing things a bit, but it's far from unheard-of for people to move in together after six months, and getting distracted by New Relationship Madness and forgetting important professional obligations is something everyone can relate to. It's often true that people who have been around the block a few times will move more slowly and be more thoughtful in their romantic choices; on the other hand, sometimes a few failed relationships is exactly what a person needs to figure out exactly what they really want—and jump on it when they find it.

Maybe your mom's new love affair is a bad idea and will end in tears. On the other hand, maybe they'll live happily ever after. If you voice your disapproval, you stand to gain nothing besides the possible eventual satisfaction of saying, “I told you so” when they break up—which usually turns out less satisfying than you think it's going to be. But if you decide to look past the weirdness and be supportive (or at least fake it), you might find it possible to be happy that your mother is happy, even if you don't completely understand her choices.

And the next time you have to get your mom's girlfriend a present, remember that no lesbian can ever have too many Home Depot gift cards.

My parents have five kids, in two 'sets', if you will. There's me, my brother and my sister, who range in age from late teens to late twenties. Then there's the two little girls, who are five and 10. The problem is this: us three older ones are all gay. As in, in Kinsian terms my brother and I both rate ourselves as a six, and our sister as a 4/ 5-ish. None of us are out of the closet to our parents. We suspect they are beginning to suspect my brother is gay because he's nearing 30 and still hasn't had a girlfriend that they've known of (he hasn't had a girlfriend full stop). We don't live in America and our country is, I suspect, more tolerant than over there (same-sex marriage is legal, for instance) and we do think they'd be accepting once they found out and got used to the idea, although they wouldn't be best pleased. The problem is more that we all currently want to be out of the closet within the next few months but don't want to give them a heart attack. Do you have any advice/ tips on how we might go about this? In your opinion, would it be easier to go about it all at once or one by one and giving them a little breathing space in-between? The internet is surprisingly reticent on this subject.

I could theorize about how your folks might prefer you to handle this situation, but since I'm not a parent myself, I decided to call in the expert witness: my mom. She knows all about having your kids come out to you, having been through it three times now, all with me. (It stuck the third time; I haven't had to come out to her for years now.) She said she'd much rather find out all at once, and I agree with her. Full disclosure is the best way to handle it, especially if you think your parents would ultimately be okay with things.

If you decided to go the other way—to stagger your coming-out stories over a period of several months—you'll have a few complicated decisions to make. Like, who gets to go first? Who deserves those extra few months of being out? Who should have to listen to your parents express their surprise over Gay Kid Prime while having to hold in the truth about their own identity? And then, like, won't your parents want to know why those of you who wait to come out didn't want to tell them sooner, like do you trust them less than Gay Kid Prime does, or what? It just sounds like more trouble than it's worth to save a little bit of difficulty in the short term.

And I don't really think it will be more than a little bit of difficulty. Invite them over to whichever one of your house or apartment is the nicest (coming out in public places is generally a no-no), have more than one bottle of wine on hand, and spit it out before you lose your nerve. Designate a spokesperson ahead of time so you're not all trying to talk at once. Pour more wine. Depending on wine consumption, be prepared to drive them home. Good luck! It's going to be great!


Previously: Weird Boyfriends and Height Differences

Lindsay King-Miller is also on Twitter. Do you have a question for her

59 Comments / Post A Comment


We heard a rumor you were gone, AQC! So glad it's not true. OK, now to read.

Black crow

Wow, this has made my day. There is not enough advice on the Hairpin these days (pace the new Bergy Bits spot). This is awesome as always.


@Black crow Haha I will try to keep doing it, in the FOT unless Emma wants it to be a real thing!


"What you do and what you want determines what you call yourself; what you call yourself doesn't determine what you're allowed to do."

This makes a lot of sense, and I think it's good advice.


So much love for both AQC and whoever has been writing/choosing the post tags and alt-text fields of late. (STILL A QUEER CHICK)

Quinn A@twitter

sometimes your first lesbian relationship works out just fine


@Quinn A@twitter Thank you for this ray of hope.


@Quinn A@twitter Mine has--we've been together for 6 years now.


Please more Ask A Whoever columns, Hairpin Powers That Be, please!! They're what got me into this site in the first place but they've been SO sparse lately and it really makes me sad. :(

Going to go actually read this now but had to get that out there first.


Oh wow, 3 siblings who are all queer? I am in awe, because I didn't realize that happened in real life outside of fanfic and gay comics. It just seems statistically unlikely, I guess. I mean, you get a family like the Duggars with 18 children and I assume at least one or two is going to be gay, maybe a couple more bisexual or queer in some other way, but 3/3 kids!

Anyway, I am also a little bit jealous because I have 5 siblings and I'm the only queer one and sometimes it'd be nice to have a sibling that understands. I can also relate to the first letter writer about the conservative family, except mine isn't *quite* so conservative (about sex. not so much when it comes to queerness and feminism and not being fucking racists/ableists/&c).


@keristars I'm almost assuming one of the BBs will be gay, although I know the real likelihood is more like 1 in 10, not 1 in 3 :)

but which one will it be? ;)

Summer Somewhere

@keristars - There are 5 of us in my generation on my mom's side of the family. 3/5 of us are gay (two are siblings), I'm queer, and the one straight cousin has a teenage son who came out as gay a couple of years back. It totally happens in real life.

Incidentally, @iceberg, I think that the "1 in 10" stat is pretty low and likely skewed by all the bisexuals/queers who keep their public life straight because they can make it work for them and they're scared of the consequences of doing otherwise - see LW #2 above! I'm happy you're a queer-friendly mommy 'berg.


@keristars If you go with the 3.5% of the population is gay (that's what came up when I googled!) then the odds of having three kids all be gay is 0.004%. Which is pretty statistically unlikely!

If you go with a 10% of the population is gay or gay-ish then the odds are .1% which is actually not too small. I don't know if I'm doing the math right but it's fun to speculate about.


@iceberg I think it is very important that the numbers are higher than 1 in 10, otherwise my son-to-be won't have a chance in hell of being married to a British monarch. Which I was obviously counting on.


@sophia_h Huh. I had assumed that Will and Kate were already in talks with Jay-Z and Beyoncé to consolidate their power and ensure a lasting dynasty through their children's marriage, but I do wish your son-to-be all the best.


@Summer Somewhere
Not helping the jealousy >.<
I have a pretty big family and extended family, but as far as I know, there is exactly one cousin who is gay (and he's always talked about in hushed tones, and with a defensive "we love him despite his sinning" tone, alas). Maybe it's the Bible Belt and closetedness.

I tend to think that 1/10 is pretty low! Especially if you consider bisexuals who don't really identify as such for one reason or another. And I guess if queerness is inherited, or influenced by the womb, you'd get families like that. It's just not something I've really thought was at all common! (Clearly it hasn't been my experience! And also, you know, Bible Belt closets are enormous.)


@Summer Somewhere It's odd, though, because I'd shy away from defining myself as queer, or bi, even though I am just as attracted to ladies as gentlemen (and have slept with both)- because I'm in a long-term straight relationship, and I don't face any oppression for it.

So...that 1 in 10 probably also excludes people like me, who feel like the label sounds like I'm trying to co-opt somebody else's troubles. I reckon most people are Not Really Totally Straight, if I'm honest.




it's basically the birthday paradox.
if you're in a room of 30 people, what are the chances that someone else in the room has your birthday? pretty tiny!! what are the chances that there are 2 people in that room with the same birthday? about 70%, it turns out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem

to put it another way,
It is highly unlikely that *you* will win the lottery.
It is highly likely that *someone* will win the lottery.

...in this example, having 3 queer kids = winning the lottery. :)


@sashay I see!

And now I can understand the statistics a bit better - my baby brother and our 2nd youngest cousin have the same birthday separated by a year and the youngest cousin was born 2 days and 2 years after that. My littler sister has the same birthday as a great uncle, looking at the same side of the family. Oh, and I share a birthday with TWO of 30 co-workers.

But these are the only times I have ever come across folks sharing my birthday, or my siblings' birthdays, at least that I noticed, in all my time in school or working in the financial aid records department at a nursing college.

So I think I can wrap my head around it. Maybe. I still think it's unfair ;)


@keristars It's only statistically unlikely if you use the statistics for the population as a whole, rather than the statistics for people with queer relatives, especially siblings. I mean, it's still unusual, but there is plenty of evidence of there being genetic and epigenetic factors to sexuality and gender identity that would tend to cluster people in families. ("Tend" of course does not mean "will".)


@keristars I always wonder about the statistics, because in the entirety of both sides of my family, there is not a single person who is openly gay. Not a one. And I feel like we're a really tolerant bunch, and there wouldn't be any issues if someone did come out, but then again, is it really possible that there aren't any queer folks in my family? It just seems so unlikely!

E. Dimples

@keristars I'm in a similar same boat. I'm the oldest of 5 and the only one who seems interested in anything outside of a straight relationship. I never came out to them because now I'm married to a guy. And my family is rather religious and I never had a relationship all that serious with a woman. I know, I sound like I am making excuses now. A few years ago at Christmas my step-mom said that she could "handle the interracial relationship, but [she] had no clue what she would do if one of us were homosexual." Really, out of five kids and now four grandchildren and you're still clinging to the thought that all of us will be straight? Not to mention, all of the things wrong with that statement.

And I hear you on the racist family members, as soon as my sister and her boyfriend would leave, my other sister and her husband would start in on the racist comments. Well, sometimes she would wait until they left. My husband, myself, and my brother were the only ones who seemed to be thinking that it wasn't okay either.


@keristars I once wrote about a large family where a few of the kids were gay and the mom was bisexual, so it does happen. I guess it supports the idea of a genetic predisposition to sexual orientation.


@keristars I have two sisters, and all three of us are some flavour of queer. My mom definitely thinks it must be something she did, which makes me sad and angry, and I wish she would stop trying to find the reason, like we're something she broke somehow. :(

But anyway, it is nice to have siblings who get it and who I can strategize with before family gatherings.


@keristars For more anecdata, I am one of four sisters, and two of us (so far) are queer. My grandmother on my mother's side is a lesbian who has been with her partner for 30+ years.

I came to a realization about my queer sexuality comparatively later (at 26). When I spoke to my female friends/family/acquaintances about it, I was amazed that almost all of them ended up telling me about same-sex experiences or desires that they had; desires and experiences that they hadn't ever shared previously. I don't think that Everyone Is A Little Gay - because what do I know about anyone else's orientation? - but I DEFINITELY think that More People Than We Think Are At Least A Little Gay (MPTWTAALALG?).


I missed you Queer Chick and you are right about everything.

Also, wow on the three kids who are all gay. I mean, for real, imagine being that parent. You'd be thinking you are the coolest ever, thinking you don't care if any of your kids are gay, you love them and they should just be themselves, and then ALL THREE OF THEM sit you down and are like, "Hold tight to your panties, you just hit the jackpot."

My mind would be fucking blown. It would probably take my kids a solid week to convince me they weren't pulling the most elaborate ruse known to man.


@Linette This sounds like an excellent way to begin. "Mom and Dad, we promise this is not an elaborate ruse..."

@Linette "Hold on to your hats, motherfuckers, because we are the MOST FABULOUS SPAWN."


@Linette A friend of mine and his older half-brother are both gay. Their mom is totally supportive and stuff, I've just always wondered what her internal monologue on the subject must be like. "it doesn't even matter who the dad is, I guess I just make gay kids"


Also I just pulled a lesbian U-haul except for the part where I'm not a lesbian. But "straight U-haul" just sounds like I'm trying to coin a slang phrase. "I straight U-hauled out of there."

fondue with cheddar

@Linette I'm bi, and I have pulled U-hauls four times, all with men. Though if I'd ever had a serious relationship with a woman I'm sure I would have pulled a U-haul with her too. It's just too expensive to live alone!


"You're not a tourist; you're more like someone on a work visa who's thinking seriously about emigrating and staying permanently, or at least trying for dual citizenship."

Best metaphor.

"You're not a tourist; you're more like someone on a work visa who's thinking seriously about emigrating and staying permanently, or at least trying for dual citizenship."

I really like this.
You know what's awesome? Nice people. Especially nice people with cool accents and great perspective and tell the locals that they're nice.
You know what's NOT awesome? People who come to the city on the hottest, most crowded weekend possible, take up more room than their share on public transit, don't stand right/walk left, bitch about the local food, and pitch a fit when the big stinky summer city isn't what it's like in the movies.


For LW1, I suggest checking out the Stuff Christian Culture Likes page on Facebook. It's been really helpful for me and many others who have to "come out" as non-Christians to family and friends. It's become a little support group for a lot of folks.

Tuna Surprise

For LW1, I lived through a similar situation. The only thing I learned was you have to stick your ground. I was calm and collected and told my parents I was moving in with my boyfriend.
They were upset at first, but eventually made it to a place of begrudging acceptance. For me, it was really import to emphasize that you're still a good person and to not look like you're rubbing it in. I think some religious people think either you go to church every week or your a junkie prostitute. But if you can show that you are a decent person but just make different decisions on some aspects, I think it helps.

Trai Xóm Chùa@facebook

Also I just pulled a lesbian U-haul except for the part where I'm not a lesbian. But "straight U-haul" just sounds like I'm trying to coin a slang phrase. "I straight U-hauled out of there."

Trang Rao Vat

fondue with cheddar

@Trai Xóm Chùa@facebook Dude, if you're going to spam us, at least come up with something original.


LW3, I feel for you because that sounds like a lot of new stuff to deal with, and I'd be concerned by anyone close to me moving that quickly with a new partner. That said, short of abuse, you can't really intervene in someone else's relationship. She's an adult and you just gotta let it ride out. I'd recommend talking to someone to work through some of your feelings and ways to cope with so much change.


"I think when you boil it down, there are only two basic things an advice columnist ever tells anyone. The first is 'take responsibility for your own shit,' and the second is, 'understand that the only shit you can take responsibility for is your own.'"

Wow. That is so, so perfectly succinct.


OK, I don't think LW3 is crazy. I'm suspicious of anything rushed. Things are always great in the beginning. But I'd not be cool with my person leaving their dog behind, not to mention other responsibilities. You know, unless they were fleeing an abusive relationship. Still, TAKE THE DOG.
That for me is a BIG red flag.
However, if your mom is happy and is not being hurt, there's really nothing you can do except hope for the best.


@Slapfight What if she hated the dog? What if it was really their SO's dog? (My ex boyfriend has no claim to my dog, despite us being together when I get him).


@Megasus That's different. LW made it sound like it's the girlfriend's dog, not the girlfriend's ex's dog.
I'm with you. My dog is MINE, no matter how much my dude loves her. Which is why my red flag came up.


LW2, some conversations I've had with some young people (I work with teens), and a perhaps overly dramatic exchange between gawker-slate-xojane about correct pronoun usages has increased some questions that I've had about the gender spectrum. A young person this weekend told me that a friend in his class felt gender-neutral, I was incredibly curious about what that actually FELT like. I've never considered myself anything other than a woman, but that conversation started me thinking, "What makes me feel like a woman?" I am a biological woman, but my personality has traits that I would classify as stereotypically feminine AND stereotypically masculine. So my question to put out to people is: Regardless of your biology, what makes you FEEL like a woman or a man, or someplace in between, or neither?

Miss Maszkerádi

@megmurray for me personally that's an interesting but ultimately impossible question. I am a straight and female-identifying woman, but I have no idea how other women experience the feeling of being a woman. Just as I have no idea how men, individually or collectively, experience feeling like men.
If I think about it - one thing that comes to mind is, I love to dance, and feel very conscious (in a good way) of being a woman when I do, both from the frequent erotic element in many pairs dances and more generally from the heightened awareness of my physical bodily being - and maybe for men who love to dance, that same exact feeling and idea, down to the last nuance of emotion and intuition, that I experience when I dance happens to them, only for them it means "I am a man."

Issues of gender identity always sort of boggle my mind a bit because - how does this all work, anyway? Like, I know I feel like me, and I've never questioned my identity as a woman, but how do I know that "woman" is really what I feel like? It's almost like a Platonic idealism vs. Aristotelian empiricism thing, and now that I've used those words I should take my jet lagged ass to bed apparently.....

TL:DR - no useful answers, just further questioning and musing. Anyone have whacks they can take at this?!


@megmurray Gender is a socially constructed set of expectations for peoples' behavior, appearance and the like based on their biological sexes. Gender identities in turn are based on those same social constructs. From my experiences with people that identify as genderqueer, agender, etc, they assume those identities because they don't fit into the binarist expectations for their sex, and because they've accepted and internalised the idea that our culture's (rather fucked up) gender expectations, they then assume that it is outside the norm to deviate from the binary, and so feel that try have to create or adopt a new gender identity, when it would be healthier for our culture to reject binarist notions of gender altogether. I don't f that helps at all, and is obviously just my opinion, but it's another perspective, which might help you sort things a bit better? Maybe/ hopefully?

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