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Tuesday, January 29, 2013

421

Memories of Austen and "Pride and Prejudice"

In my junior year of college, I took a Jane Austen seminar with about ten other women and one guy; the chaff (like, two hundred women and...one guy) having been swiftly winnowed out by the necessity of writing an introductory Austen essay to be judged on. And it was a great seminar, and I met my best friend in it because we had both just been dumped and could not write our final papers and got basically eternal extensions on them—I think they still have my diploma—because our professor had also suffered great heartbreak. So, when I think of "Pride and Prejudice," I think first of female friendship, now, and how it can outlast great (or middling) love.—Ed.

Sarah Seltzer (previously of Regency dress-up fame):

I am in late elementary school, and I am puzzled. This grown-up book I’m reading features a character who, in the parlance of that era of my life, is a total jerk. He’s basically one of the mean kids, and yet the blurb on the back suggests that somehow he plays hero to the wondrous Elizabeth Bennet of the dirty petticoats and sparkling wit.

I just don’t get how we’re going to get from A to B.

“Mom, why does it say ‘Elizabeth and Darcy’s social world?’” I ask, all earnestness. “She’s not going to get together with him, is she?”

This eventually goes down in history as one of the three most loaded literary questions I have ever asked her, the other two being “Mom, is Beth gonna die?” and “Mom, if Rochester loves Jane too, why are there 300 pages left in the book?”

I was stunned to realize I might witness Darcy’s transformation into a stand-up guy. Too young to second-guess, I read his character as Austen showed him to me, through Lizzy’s eyes, and so had no indication he had reserves of good in him. (Then, once both our eyes were opened, like many Austen readers I went on to project reserves of good into several aloof men who had zero to speak of — but that’s another story. Like a true Austen heroine, I lived and learned.)

Anne Helen Petersen:

I grew up consuming all books within arm's reach, and I'm sure if Austen had been in that reach, I'd be one of those girls who's read "Pride and Prejudice" 15 times. Instead, my first meeting was with "Mansfield Park," in AP English no less. It could have been disastrous. But oh how I loved Fanny Price, even with her general humorlessness and the odd — at least to a 16-year-old — side-plot about slavery in the Antigua. But wasn't Edmund just the best second-tier brother of all time? AND THEN THE MOVIE, don't even get me started, I'm basically watching Elementary just so I can feel the same way about Jonny Lee Miller as I did when I first watched that film. Which is all to say that I'm now an Austen completist, "Northanger Abbey" is proof that Austen had a wicked sense of humor, "Persuasion" is the most underrated, and Greer Garson (1940) is the most annoying Elizabeth Bennet.

Nicole's Dad:

Alas, my memory of Jane Austen's books is completely blank although I've read at least three of her novels.

You would do as well asking Karp Lykov! Sorry.

Carrie Frye:

I remember the thrill of discovering "Persuasion" in my 20s and realizing that, after having read "Pride and Prejudice" and "Sense & Sensibility" to pieces (and hating "Mansfield Park" even after a couple reads), there was somehow this other Jane Austen I hadn't yet read. And carrying it around to different places — in waiting rooms, before meetings — and reading it and falling in love with how melancholy and composed it was. I think all favorite authors should turn out to have a masterpiece that you somehow haven't yet read: the extra post-"Villette" Charlotte Bronte, the secret George Eliot (overlooked because she published it as Herman Eliot), et cetera.

Katie Heaney:

Like many other girls, I was primed to love "Pride and Prejudice" before I even really knew what it was about. And I DID, of course, and fell in love with the idea of a Mr. Darcy, of course, and appreciated Elizabeth Bennet for her directness and muddy petticoats and, uh, prejudice, BUT! I sometimes get (maybe unreasonably) irritated with tomboyish characters who are still written to be inescapably attractive, always with at LEAST two suitors, and always so humble and divine to the point that you can't even feel justified in being irritated with them for being so well-liked. You (or I) want the tomboys to be different from the sillier, stereotypically blonder sisters, and I always wanted part of that difference to be that they DON'T also get to have literally everyone be in love with them. That's probably one-quarter weird, fiction-inspired jealousy, and three-quarters annoyance about how that sort of storyline devalues these female characters' tomboyishness and brazenness (or supposed other-ness) for me, because they end up the same, and it's easy. They end up married and pretty and happy and rich. They end up watching (and sometimes encouraging!) their own unwanted lovers pair up with their poor, less-cool best friends. I know there's a lot of other social commentary going on, but on that basic level, that characteristic of Jane Austen (and so many other!) novels gets under my skin.

Mallory Ortberg:

I feel strongly that no woman under the age of 35 should be allowed to read or talk about it (and only women who can pass a Reality Test upon achieving the age of majority should be told about Mr. Darcy), but that isn't really the book's fault.

Meg Blocker:

I think the most memorable moment of the first time I read it was, for me, when our professor insisted upon a dramatic reading of the section where Darcy comes upon Lizzie when she's just walked from Longbourne to Netherfield to visit an ailing Jane. Lizzie's skirts are filthy, her hair's a mess, and her eyes are "bright with the exercise." She's sweaty, mussed — positively post-coital — and it's the moment Darcy first starts to love her. I remember being first shocked and then delighted that Austen — whom I'd been led to believe was stodgy as all hell — had written something so deliciously (and tastefully, of course) sexy. You just know Lizzie and Darcy tore it up in bed, when they finally got there.

An Academic:

I've read "Pride and Prejudice" about a million times and so know the first line ("... a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife") pretty damn well. And every time I have a totally different feeling. It's like Austen is speaking to me through all growing stages and my anticipation of the book is entirely different depending on how i'm feeling. I suppose that's pretty mundane, but it's true. I sort of respond to Jane and think, ah, this is actually how life is. And feel very profound and wise.

Jolie Kerr:

[whispers] I've never read any Jane Austen.

I'll hand in my hairpin now.

421 Comments / Post A Comment

RosemaryF

Same here, Jolie. Same here.

Tuna Surprise

@RosemaryF

Yes! I always feel like I'm betraying female-kind when I admit to never having read it and feeling 'meh' about the one movie with Colin Firth in it that I have seen. Although Clueless was pretty good...if that counts.

Nicole Cliffe

A girl in my Austen seminar was the daughter of the Horowitz that Cher was named after. Trivia!

Titania

@Nicole Cliffe “Mom, if Rochester loves Jane too, why are there 300 pages left in the book?” I DIED LAUGHING. And totally remember thinking the same thing. I hope I get a daughter like us.

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SarahDances

@RosemaryF Not gonna lie, I totally tried to read Pride and Prejudice for the first time a few months ago, and just could not get through it. I did Jane Eyre, which was fine, and then took a run at this, and could not. The florid language. The snarkiness. Ugh.

RosemaryF

@Tuna Surprise I love me a regency-era romance novel, but the ones by the Grand Matriarch that started them all have absolutely no appeal to me.

Not enough doin' it, I suppose.

@SarahDances EXACTLY. I've tried a couple of times, but it was all too much!

MilesofMountains

@RosemaryF Same here. I've read...more historical romance than I care to count and I have never really gotten around to reading any Austin. I think I have this deep-seated fear that if I read one, I'll hate it and be banished from all groups of literary ladies forever and ever.

Theda Baranowski

@RosemaryF I think Regency era romances (and all romances, really, I am a Smart Bitches Trashy Books girl) get a bad rap. The croquet match in Julia Quinn's The Viscount Who Loved Me is pure comedy gold.

meetapossum

@RosemaryF My people!

dorkmuffin

@RosemaryF

.... I've only read Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, but the complaint, "But they love each other, so why are there 300 more pages in this book?" strikes home in a big way, so maybe that's why.

I also hated Wuthering Heights with all the passion a 15-year-old can muster.

iceberg

@dorkmuffin HATED Wuthering Heights!!! YES.

lemonadefish

@SarahDances
I was supposed to read it for Freshman Seminar, but I simply could not. I ended up writing my paper on why I couldn't finish the damn thing. I've been carrying it around for 16 years now, thinking I'd eventually get through it, but I'm pretty sure I am deluded about that.

anotherkate

@Theda Baranowski I had no idea Smart Bitches Trashy Books existed. Excuse me while I spend the rest of my Tuesday reading reviews.
Also, Wuthering Heights annoys me, and reading Bella's "their love was their only redeeming quality" explanation in Twilight made me want to throw the book out the window (instead of reading & snarking).

Theda Baranowski

@anotherkate It's blocked at my work, which legitimately saddens me more than all the other things that are blocked (Facebook, Twitter, LiveJournal, Dreamwidth) combined.

279th District Court

@iceberg
I once spent an entire summer writing a guidebook to a family's vanity museum (yes, this is a thing, if you're rich enough - a little museum on your family's history in the visitor's center of the town). It meant I was basically reading 50 years worth of puff pieces about their philanthropy, history, business successes, etc. And over and over again, I read the same human interest blurb about how the matriarch and patriarch of this family (who had been by all accounts happily married for 60 some odd years with six kids) call each other CATHERINE AND HEATHCLIFF as their pet names. There are multiple "Wuthering Heights" parks that they built for each other because they UNIRONICALLY identify with these two characters and LOOK UP TO THEM as an INSPIRATION for their own love. One of the great journalistic disappointments of my life is that not ONE reporter in 50 years of puff pieces called them on this. Not even a tactful, "strange though it may be for such a happy couple to take their cues from one of the most famously dysfunctional set of lovers in the Western canon..."

teaandcakeordeath

@anotherkate
Ha Cathy and Heathcliffe had NO redeeming qualities! I think Emily Bronte realized this which is why she slaughtered Cathy because really that's the best thing for her. I really like the second half though as it's more about people building love than proclaiming some half imaginary thing exists, but I think it's an aquired taste.

Bittersweet

@teaandcakeordeath et al: Wuthering Heights, ugh! I loved it at 15 (the crazy love! the moors! Kate Bush!) but then I read it again at 35 and HATED IT. All of the characters were either a-holes or weak and whiny.

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districter

My first Austen was with a 10th grade teacher who developed an entire year of English just about England. I don't remember having much of an opinion about it other than dreading the epic vocabulary memorization tests we had to do.

Basically I wish I never had read anything I might have liked even a little bit in school, but I reread it in college and was like, "how did this not AMAZE me?"

par_parenthese

@districter I think vocabulary memorization tests probably suck the life out of everything?

Theda Baranowski

I can't remember how old I was - probably late high school? - but I distinctly remember the cover, made to look like Colin Firth and Jennifer Ehle without being either one of them. I also remember figuring that I wouldn't like it much and then loving.

I then gave up on Austen when Emma made me irrationally furious.

AmandathePanda

@Theda Baranowski Emma is allowed to make people irrationally furious. That is part of her point.

JanieS

@Theda Baranowski It's true; Emma is a prime rage-maker. She makes me snarl like an angry dog. Poor Harriet! Poor Miss Bates!

Theda Baranowski

@AmandathePanda Well, I was twenty and lacked the patience to finish a book that made me irrationally furious when I was also supposed to be reading the Tale of the Heike for my Japanese history class, and so set Emma aside to procrastinate with Harlequin romance novels instead.

But I do have to follow this up with an anecdote of my best friend and I reading various Austen and Bronte novels in our intro to geology seminar (I also really hated Jane Eyre, but enjoyed replacing the ancient climate of Minnesota with Elinor and Marianne in Sense and Sensibility.)

schrodingers_cat

@Theda Baranowski Emma made me furious as well. I hated the book, but will happily watch a well-adapted theater version, strangely.

Bittersweet

@Theda Baranowski I may be in the minority, but I love Emma because of her faults. Sure, she's frustrating and meddlesome and misguided, but she does everything with good intentions. OK, everything but making fun of Miss Bates. But we've all screwed up and been thoughtless to people. There must be something good in her when people (especially Mr. Knightley) continue to love her even when she makes big messes.

(My favorite version of Emma is the PBS mini-series with Jonny Lee Miller (swoon) a couple of years ago.)

Lucienne

@Bittersweet I feel the same way about Emma and Emma. She tries so hard and she only gets to be happy once she realizes what she's done wrong. It's great.

The Romola Garai/Jonny Lee Miller adaptation is also great. Their chemistry is really wonderful.

Bittersweet

@Lucienne I felt like Romola Garai got Emma right - she's rich, but she's not all that well-educated, she's naive (since she's never traveled anywhere - thanks, Dad), she can be petty but ultimately she's good-hearted and caring. The Gwyneth version, though it featured Jeremy Northam (yum), portrayed her as more bitchy and spoiled.

Lucienne

@Bittersweet Yeah, and there's a silliness to Emma that Garai captured - in fact, that whole adaptation captured it - which other versions leave out (this is also why Clueless is a great adaptation). But it's joyfully silly, without undercutting any of the characters, even the ridiculous ones: Miss Bates, Mr. Woodhouse, and so on. You feel for them as much as you feel for Emma, Knightley, or Jane Fairfax.

Also, um, the clothes are amazing.

Bittersweet

@Lucienne I've always loved the ridiculous characters in Emma. Michael Gambon as Mr. Woodhouse captured him really well, and production showed you why he was the way he was. That's one of the benefits of a mini-series - you have the luxury of time to delve into the less central personages and plot points.

And the clothes, holy crap! I'm not a huge fan of yellow in general, but Emma's wedding day dress was drool-worthy. (As were most of her other outfits.)

Lucienne

@Bittersweet Yes, Michael Gambon really stands out. I loved the relationship between Emma and her father as they portrayed it.

I normally don't care for hats but I want ALL THE HATS in that version.

anachronistique

I took a Jane Austen seminar during my semester abroad in Bath and it was awesome and I'm now the most insufferable person on this page goodbye forever.

Nicole Cliffe

But, did you care for Bath, is the question? Did you find it DIVERTING?

par_parenthese

@anachronistique Baby come back! You can exhaustively parse Jane Austen and your experiences in Bath therewith ALL ON ME!

martinipie

@anachronistique more importantly did Captain Wentworth kiss you outside the assembly room or whatever sigghhh

anachronistique

@Nicole Cliffe IT WAS THE BEST, I won't even lie. I loved that city. And I got to walk through the Circus on my way to class every day!

@par_parenthese IF YOU INSIST. I actually have a mug with an Austen portrait and quote on it on my desk right now. It holds my pens.

@martinipie There was not nearly enough kissing, but while I was there one of the local museums had an exhibit of costumes from various Austen adaptations that was great. (Best part: the audio tour explaining that the white shirt in the Darcy display was actually a period example because the actual shirt from Wet Colin Firth was in a private collection. Who owns the Wet Shirt Mr. Darcy shirt?)

meetapossum

@anachronistique I think I already mentioned this (because you must be the one I talked to about ASE), but there was the one time in Bath with all the Mr. Darcys hanging around in their Regency wear.

meetapossum

@anachronistique In fact, I checked, and I have already started this conversation with you. Oops!

anachronistique

@meetapossum YES. Fond Hairpin memories! (I'm going to an ASE alum meetup next month when Jonathan's doing his tour, I think!)

meetapossum

@anachronistique Nice! I'll be in the UK in 10 days (eeeee!), and I'll be visiting one of my ASE/college friends. (We went to college together but didn't know each other until Bath.) Definitely going to visit Bath again since I haven't been since 2008.

par_parenthese

@anachronistique I have an Austen mug with "in vain I have struggled" on one side and "it will not do" on the other, from here: http://www.etsy.com/shop/brookish

Verity

I live very near Brighton, and have never once got to ogle the militia, or run off to live in sin with a cad. So disappointing.

par_parenthese

ANNE HELEN PETERSEN, YOU ARE ME. Every last detail of that paragraph, down to Elementary and Greer Garson.

City_Dater

@par_parenthese

And I am right there with you both...(Oh Jonny!) I am the annoying person who tells people they really need to read Northanger Abbey, even after they say they just don't "get" Jane Austen. (How can you not "get" Jane?)

279th District Court

@City_Dater
I have had this conversation SO MANY TIMES with a former roommate who thinks that the movies are better than the books because Jane wrote such lovely stories but her voice is wicked mean.

Yes, she is super vicious with her characters, but that's what makes me fall for her romantic plots! I BELIEVE in these romances, and I LOVE watching her tear everyone a new one. Although I do wish she were as vicious with her darling heroines as everyone else, sometimes. Perfect little infallible Fanny Price, seriously, get off your high horse. Elizabeth Bennet - get over yourself a little bit, hon.

Then again, Emma is, as they say above, a "rage-maker", and Anne Elliot gets something of a self-lambasting. And Northanger Abbey is ALL about her growing up. And then the sisterly self-critique...okay, I'm wrong. I'll shut up now.

par_parenthese

@279th District Court Was it here that someone recently called Isabella Thorpe from Northanger Abbey "a 19th-century Twihard"? Because I MEAN.

Titania

@par_parenthese I enjoy Austen, but my true love is "North and South." My commie grandparents are so thrilled that my preferred love story is all about labor relations and class struggle.

par_parenthese

@Titania I just got the book on my kindle but YE GODS I could watch that miniseries over and over and over. As far as I can tell the North has it ALL OVER the South in smoldering brows and broodiness.

Atheist Watermelon

@279th District Court I just love how effortlessly she makes the reader hate sweet, well-intentioned Jane in Pride and Prejudice... Completely brilliant.

hopelessshade

I got into High School with an entrance essay on Pride and Prejudice.

So there! I guess.

martinipie

I can't even remember the age I was the first time I read the book, but I definitely remember being shocked by how damn funny it was, which must have meant I was at least old enough to get it. And then the next time I read it, it was senior year AP Lit, and hardly anyone in the class except for my friend and the dude I had a crush on also thought it was was funny, and the teacher was like SWEET MANNA FROM HEAVEN, CHILDREN WHO ARE AWAKE. God, I love it so much. And yes, AHP, Persuasion is THE BEST ONE out of a crop of pretty amazing novels.

AmandathePanda

@martinipie I was always finding unexpected bits of literature funny, which was unfortunate, because that meant I had to explain the dirty parts of Shakespeare to the class in AP English. Don't smirk when you get the dirty jokes, kids.

pointy

@martinipie Yeah, I have this really strong memory of my amazement at reading the first few pages of P&P at a school book fair and snickering at it, then being unsure if I was really understanding right, because how could a book that was super old and involved petticoats be so snide and funny?

Decca

@pointy The one line that always makes me chuckle is "Kitty has no discretion in her coughs," said her father; "she times them ill.". My mother always quotes this, and it cracks the two of us up.

pointy

@Decca I thought Mr. Bennett's sarcasm was hilarious the first few times I read it - I was much older before I realized what a sad character he really is.

par_parenthese

@pointy *sigh* Me too.

raised amongst catalogs

My first Austen was Persuasion. When the world feels all wrong, or maybe the world is fine but I'm all wrong in it, I turn to Jane Austen to feel better. To my mind, there's no finer bathtub companion than Jane Austen.

RK Fire

@raised amongst catalogs YESSSSS

RK Fire

@raised amongst catalogs Her work is strangely comforting. I personally enjoy Jane Austen with some pizza or mac and cheese.

par_parenthese

@raised amongst catalogs Bourbon and Jane Austen have gotten me through many and many a fucking awful week/month/year.

happy go lucky scamp

@raised amongst catalogs yes yes yes!!!!
persuasion and northanger abby are old friends who never outstay their welcome

AmandathePanda

I couldn't read Pride and Prejudice the first time I tried, but after Sense and Sensibility and was in Austen-love and needed more. My neighbor loaned me a lovely green, cloth-bound copy of P&P which I promptly read, re-read, got slightly damp, kept, took to college, mooned over, felt guilt over, and eventually owned for real when she said I could keep it because I clearly loved it so much.

Decca

I have been living in Brighton for four months now and, contrary to what I have been lead to believe from reading Austen, I have not acquired any husbands???

JanieS

@Decca Clearly, you are not attending sufficient assemblies and balls.

SarcasticFringehead

@Decca Are the officers in town?

City_Dater

@Decca

Well, I for one don't especially care for that manner of getting husbands.

Verity

@Decca To be fair, nor would Lydia if Darcy hadn't gone and forced Wickham into it. Brighton: not all it's cracked up to be.

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redheaded&crazy

I have a very vivid memory of my mother writing an essay on sense and sensibility for me in middle school while I tried to go to sleep. Lights in my room were off. MOM. STOP TYPING SO LOUD.

do I have to hand in MY hairpin now?

par_parenthese

@redheaded&crazy Wait wait. What manner of English teacher did you have who tried to make middle schoolers read Sense and Sensibility?? Error.

LaLoba

i love Emma for its troublesomeness and difficulty and unwillingness to be what we want it to be; and I love Persuasion for its perfection and for Captain Wentworth and Aunt Prudence and the awful father and the dark halls and the trip to Bath. But in both of those there are the BEST scenes of hyperbolic inconvenience turned to tragedy and horror: being "attacked" by gypsy children in Emma and the WALL SCENE in Persuasion.

par_parenthese

@LaLoba I just kind of... did she not have a good relationship with her dad? Because the fathers in those books are universally pathetic.

de Pizan

@LaLoba Austen did actually get along very well with her father, he was the one who first tried to get one of her novels published and supported her in that--but her father had to move the family to Bath after he abruptly retired and there were major money issues. The consensus is she hated Bath and having to move...so maybe there was some father resentment for that. But generally critics think that if anyone, it was her mother she had issues with.

par_parenthese

@de Pizan Innnnteresting.

Emma: Mother dead, father hypochondriac and overbearing (but sweet?).
Persuasion: Mother dead, father the most unbelievable heartless snob.
S&S: Mother emotional wreck, father dead.
P&P: Mother nightmare matchmaking hypochondriac, father distant snarker (but kind to Lizzie?).
Mansfield Park: Mother lazy and thoughtless, father also lazy and thoughtless.
Northanger Abbey: Mother normalish, father normalish.

Hmmmmm...

de Pizan

@par_parenthese In her letters, she occasionally snarks about her mother's supposed hypochondria (among other things about her mother). Her letters, edited by Deirdre Le Faye are amazing. So much cutting wit and awesomeness and her sister Cassandra's letter about Jane's death to a niece is absolutely heart-breaking.

LooseBaggyMonster

@LaLoba Aunt Prudence? In Persuasion?

Ellie

I read Emma this summer while I was in Germany because I wanted to read something that was, like, aggressively in English, after being surrounded by a foreign language. Best decision ever. Maybe the funniest and most charming book I've ever read.

synchronized
synchronized

@Ellie Haha, this is great. You've got me leaning toward "Emma" as my next Austen read!

teaandcakeordeath

@Ellie
I think you've just described what was going on with my subconscious when I read Emma when I was abroad.
Having such a specific moment described years later by stranger is a really weird but cool feeling.

vunder

I am like Nicole's dad, apparently. I never got the fuss, it's never stuck with me.

synchronized
synchronized

I love "Pride and Prejudice," but Katie Heaney makes a fine point! Approached from her perspective, Elizabeth Bennet could be read as one of the original Manic Pixie Dream Girls.

BoozinSusan

@synchronized But...but she's not particularly manic, or a pixie? I know she's supposed to be plainer than Jane. I don't think Austen intended for her to catch anyone's eye on pure ethereal beauty alone - more by wit. If people are in love with her it's for her character at least as much as her appearance. Or am I reading P&P wrong?

synchronized
synchronized

@BoozinSusan From what I've seen, most MPDGs do tend to be cutesy looking, but their personalities often share similar qualities too. And the traits in question, it seems, tend to be quirkiness and a certain off-kilter sensibility -- a refusal to covet the things women of the era are supposed to want.

That's where I see the similarity. Elizabeth is headstrong, independent, different! Until she's not.

BoozinSusan

@synchronized I think Elizabeth demands that any potential husband respect her intelligence and forthrightedness, which at least sets her apart from many of her contemporaries who want *only* a comfortable home. That she does end up finding someone who fits that description doesn't mean she's become somehow less headstrong/different, only that her desires have been met.

synchronized
synchronized

@BoozinSusan Also a fine point!

TheBourneApproximation

@BoozinSusan

Elizabeth is sensible, has a well-defined personality, aims and goals of her own, which she ultimately accomplishes. She is neither manic, nor pixie, nor dreamgirl.

That said, Jane Austen did write at least one MPDG: Marianne in Sense and Sensibility. Poetry! Wildflowers! Standing outside in the rain! Aaaaand then she almost dies.

par_parenthese

@TheBourneApproximation Not enough likes for that last paragraph.

BoozinSusan

@TheBourneApproximation Aha, I'm just remembering the über-dewy, red-ringletted young Kate Winslet in that role.
KATE!

laurel

Reading S&S was the first time I realized novelists can have some rather sadistic tendencies. Austen invents the darling, vulnerable Marianne and then tortures her just short of death.

divinemissross@twitter

"She's sweaty, mussed — positively post-coital — and it's the moment Darcy first starts to love her."

If you listen to the commentary of the P&P '95 miniseries the screenwriter has this great line where he talks about this scene and he calls this part when Darcy comes across Lizzie as Darcy gets an erection because of her. I can't watch that scene without thinking of it now because the look that comes across Firth's face is totally "oh shit, boner"

mezzanine

@divinemissross@twitter this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUK7-smJVh4

(i'm too lazy to hyperlink things, sorry)!

iceberg

@divinemissross@twitter aaaaaand now I need to watch this scene again.

SuperGogo

@divinemissross@twitter That factoid is in the second Bridget Jones book during Bridget's interview with Colin Firth too (a.k.a. one of the funniest scenes I've ever ever read).

par_parenthese

@SuperGogo GAH, that second Bridget book. I think it was the first time I'd ever laughed so hard I had tears running down my face reading a book.

Maryaed

@divinemissross@twitter Uh, where does that happen in the novel? Just wondering.

happy go lucky scamp

@par_parenthese I had tears! I can remember laughing so, so hard.

From memory it's on the DVD extra's where they have Bridget Jones interviewing Colin Firth as himself.

teaandcakeordeath

@par_parenthese
I laughed so hard I dropped the book.

schrodingers_cat

I think I read Pride and Prejudice for the first time when I was 10, and for a long time it was the only Austen novel I liked. I hated Emma for a long time, and Fanny from Mansfield Park just annoyed me. I also didn't understand why Eleanor Dashwood didn't kick Edward Ferrars to the curb. But once I started understanding the subtly snarky social commentary, I began loving all the books equally.

miss olsen

1. Emma
2. Pride and Prejudice
3. Persuasion
4. Northanger Abbey
5. Sense and Sensibility
Fragments, drafts, Sanditon, etc.
...
...
...
...
...

39. Mansfield Park

f.pamplemousse

@miss olsen I agree about the last one for sure. UGH Fanny Price.

nerdicity

@miss olsen switch the order of 4 and 5 and you're right on!

fabel

::whispering even lower than Jolie::

Every Jane Austen novel I've read, I have despised?

::runs away::

MarianTheLibrarian

@fabel I've started P&P twice and never finished it. I refuse to be shamed for not loving Jane Austen or the Brontes.

Dandyliongirl

I absolutely love Persuasion. Captain Wentworth is DREAMY, you guys.

happy go lucky scamp

@Dandyliongirl oh so dreamy.

wee_ramekin

@Dandyliongirl "You pierce my soul. I am half agony, half hope. Tell me not that I am too late, that such precious feelings are gone for ever. I offer myself to you again with a heart even more your own than when you almost broke it, eight and a half years ago. Dare not say that a man forgets sooner than woman, that his love has an earlier death. I have loved none but you. Unjust I may have been, weak and resentful I have been, but never inconstant."

#dead

lisma

My first Austen was actually Emma, and not even the book, but the movie with Gwyneth Paltrow. I fell hopelessly in love with that movie and with Mr. Knightley, and then I fell hopelessly in love with the book and all the other books. These days, the only Austen book I read over and over again is Persuasion. There is just something about it.

LeafySeaDragon

i LOVE LOVE jane austen MOVIES. i cannot read the books. i literally fall asleep. i'm a huge reader, so it's strange.

Cavendish

I tried reading Northanger Abbey when I was about 11 and just didn't get it, so I stopped about halfway through. I didn't read P&P until my first year at college, when I read it for an intro writing-about-literature class. I remember getting a few pages into it and realizing "Oh! This is funny!"

Elsajeni

Pride and Prejudice is my mom's favorite book, to a degree where she was REALLY AGGRESSIVE about pushing me to read it as soon as she thought I would understand it (also, she named me Elizabeth because of it and in fact had to be talked down from also making my middle name Bennet). So of course this had the opposite of the intended effect and I spent my teenagerhood being really snide and hostile toward Jane Austen. Eventually I did have to read it in school and found it to be, you know, fine, but it's still not really my cup of tea.

(Also, once I had a dream that my friends and I were enacting scenes from Pride and Prejudice, for some reason, and woke up highly indignant when I realized that my OWN SUBCONSCIOUS had cast me as Mary.)

no bricks

@Elsajeni I could have written almost this same comment! Except in my case my dad also contributed to aggressively encouraging me and my sister to read (and watch) it. The damage has never been undone -- even today we still tend to roll our eyes when Jane Austen comes up, and while we made it through Pride and Prejudice, neither of us did much more than tolerate it.

(Also, my middle name is Elizabeth and I now wonder if they secretly named me that for the same reason you have that name. Ahh!)

queenofbithynia

1. it's not a romance, none of the Jane Austens are romances. I can't read 'em cause they're worse than Lovecraft for making you feel like life is garbage and horror and you can see through the veil if you try only a little.

2. Elizabeth doesn't fall in "love" with Darcy until she goes to see his house when he's not home. That's the pivotal scene. all great love stories in literature are between a woman and a house. [1] Austen men are plot conveniences and sad economic necessities.

and man I wish I could have answered Young Sarah's Jane Eyre question. There's 300 pages left because it's not a damn book about Jane and ROchester and how they get together, it is a book about JANE.

[1] that is why Manderley sounds like Pemberley. also, Max does not love the narrator, it is not at all ambiguous.

Ellie

@queenofbithynia Right on - I think Jane Eyre is probably the most iconic feminist heroine of classic literature.

iceberg

@queenofbithynia I read somewhere that the thing about her falling in love with the house is because when Austen wrote P&P, (some?)English people believed that a person's house like, showed their character, so I guess it was supposed to be his personality that was being revealed to her by the house (and the housekeeper). Dunno how this works since obviously he inherited the house, but that's what I read.

par_parenthese

@iceberg @queenofbithynia Yep. It's the improvements that he (hasn't) made to the house and especially the grounds that impress her. She admires them as being "so little counteracted by awkward taste" because at that time there was a tendency to knock down whole groves of ancient trees (cf. Sense and Sensibility) and dig out hillsides and plant massive formal gardens to display one's wealth. She sees his restraint as a sign of his being a wise caretaker and a man of good judgment, neither miserly nor ostentatious, not spoiling what his father worked hard to maintain. The rest of the house confirms that opinion, as does the commendation of his housekeeper.

(I know I go on and on about the Lizzie Bennet Diaries, but I think the writers did a great job paralleling Book!Lizzie's feelings at seeing Pemberley with LBD!Lizzie's admiration of the company Darcy had built. LBD!Darcy inherited the company from his father, but manages it incredibly well and made it even more successful at a very young age. Similarly, Book!Darcy had to take over the running of the estate when he was quite young -- probably 19 or 20, and had evidently continued to make a success of it.)

RK Fire

@par_parenthese Oh, oh, this is much better than my interpretation that Lizzie falls in love with him when she sees Pemberly because she was a bit overwhelmed by his wealth. I mean, it didn't exactly make sense with her character but that was the only way I could understand the jokes about his house... in my mind it was that or weird, sly jokes about the size of his junk, like Monty Python and the Holy Grail jokes about "great tracts of land."

queenofbithynia

@RK Fire ? His wealth? I mean, yes, his wealth, but his house is going to be her house for the rest of her life. That's not a symbol for a thing, that is the thing. All the detailed textual analysis about his care for his estate being a reflection of his own character, his pruning of his shrubberies a key to his personal manscaping, that is all true and all but surely the most important thing is that where and how he lives is where -- and how -- she will have to live. He's going to be her job and her livelihood and her lifestyle; his stuff matters.

par_parenthese

@queenofbithynia "He's going to be her job and her livelihood and her lifestyle;" YUP. "Of all this I could have been mistress."

But seriously, I think Austen genuinely believed that there were good rich people whose taste, judgment, and character showed itself in their houses. Compare with tacky, nouveau Caroline Bingley, and especially with the showy, tasteless De Bourghs.

de Pizan

@par_parenthese There's a great quote in The Friendly Jane Austen by Natalie Tyler about that scene (which unfortunately I don't have with me) which echoes what you said. And adds that at the time, a man of Darcy's stature would have been the local magistrate, had people renting farms/land from him and so it's Elizabeth realizing that if the locals respect and admire him; that if his house is well-run, well-maintained and happy that means he takes care of his stuff, his environment and his servants....all that's a pretty big deal in his favor. Not to mention the benefit of seeing him at home where he's acting less like he's got a stick up his ass.

sevanetta

@par_parenthese Is this the bit where we all discuss The Lizzie Bennet Diaries? because god knows i am dying to discuss LBD on the hairpin!!!

par_parenthese

@sevanetta FOT!! We're going to fangurl everywhere; we did last week!!

sevanetta

@par_parenthese I'm so there!!!

RK Fire

@queenofbithynia Yeah, I didn't write very well in my last response, but I had always assumed that she was joking about marrying him for his money/to be financially comfortable without any regard for his actual personality. It wasn't clear to me during my countless re-reads that Elizabeth had reassessed his character based on the management of his estate. It seems clear in hindsight though.

rosaline

@RK Fire I have had the exact same mindset as you and it has ALWAYS bothered me. The explanation that seeing his management of Pemberley helped her reassess his character is SO MUCH better.

Maryaed

@queenofbithynia She already knows about the wealth before she sees the house, no? Ten thousand a year?

Shahzaib Soomrow@facebook

The next time I read a blog, I hope that it doesn't disappoint me as much as this one. I mean, I know it was my choice to read, but I actually thought you would have something interesting to say.

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RK Fire

@dorkmuffin I've read all of Austen's work and I love it as a whole, but I have to say that Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters explained the characters' motivations to me more clearly than the original.

JanieS

@RK Fire I was shocked at how enjoyable I found S&S&Sea Monsters, after the boundless disappointment that was Pride & Prejudice & Zombies.

RK Fire

@JanieS I really enjoyed how PPZ tried to inject ridiculous class-based hierarchies onto East Asian martial arts, for some reason. Or the fact that martial arts were even involved at all.

Also, the idea that Colonel Brandon has tentacles growing out of his face is the only thing that really explains the wholesale revulsion everyone has to the idea of him being a suitor.

JanieS

@RK Fire I got really, really irritated at the fact that Lizzie, who had studied at the Shaolin Temple, was using a katana. WHY NOT LOOK UP THE CORRECT WEAPONRY FOR CHINESE MARTIAL ARTS, DUMB AUTHOR MAN?

RK Fire

@JanieS Shit, I totally missed that.. and I tend to get kind of anal about that sort of thing.

JanieS

@RK Fire I'm just bitter that now I'll never be able to write my own martial arts/zombie/Jane Austen pastiche, because now it's like a THING, and they've all been done. :sigh:

ru_ri

@JanieS Thank you!!! Glad to hear I am not the only one bugged by that. And you should totally do yr own pastiche, because it really needs doing Properly.

schrodingers_cat

@JanieS Ugh, yes. I really did not like Pride & Prejudice & Zombies, which put me off attempting to read Sense & Sensibility & Sea Monsters. Maybe I will have to give that one a shot.

flanhoodles

The writing sample that I submitted to get into the honors program in college was about Pride and Prejudice and feminism (and also, Bridget Jones's Diary, I think?)...but I had only seen the movie at the time. At least it was the Firth/Ehle version?

ETA: I have since read it, many times. And Mansfield Park twice. And listened to the audiobook of Emma.

Aggro-Pina

I´m an ardent admirerer of the esteemed Miss Austen, but honestly, I have never understood why her novels are considered romances. Sure, it´s all about finding someone to marry, but if anything, she warns against being carried off by one´s emotions. To me, it´s witty and humorous and highly sarcastic.

Ellie

@Aggro-Pina I sort of agree, and I won't speak to what the genre of "romance" means, but isn't that kind of romance (witty, humorous and sometimes confusing interactions punctuated by brief moments of emotional honesty and heartfelt exchanges) really what many of us are looking for?

H.E. Ladypants

@Ellie I think that's why I find Austen so appealing. She doesn't write about that sort of swept-away, Prince-Charming thing we've been lead to call romance but about real women finding their match. It's about finding an equal and a partner rather than someone to swoon over. And I feel like that's still a bit subversive to present that sort of relationship as romance.

TheBourneApproximation

@Aggro-Pina I love Jane Austen, and was very excited by the courting and romancing as a young teenager. But as I get older I realize that her novels are, at heart, about Real Estate.

Aggro-Pina

@Ellie Seems to me the happiest Austen heroines the ones who marry the richest guys. Yes, everyone wants romance. But Austen´s point is that romance turns sour real quick when there is no money. Lack of money is really Wickham´s greatest fault, he lives above his means. And isn´t the best part about marrying Darcy to get to live in that big fancy house, even to a modern reader? And when Jane is proposed to by Bingley, she expresses the greatest joy in being of use to her family, that is, to provide for her sisters. Money is most important, and personal happiness in romantic terms, way second.

iceberg

The BBC miniseries version of P&P was released right when we did it in high school English, so I have a squishy marshmallowy soft spot for it in my heart, it's tied up with so much nostalgia. And... other feelings re wet-shirt Colin Firth.

iceberg

@iceberg Basically I embody every stereotype re Austen.

par_parenthese

@iceberg After years of feeling awkward about it, I am finally comfortable in my embodiment of Austen-fan stereotypes, because I really unironically like all those things! Making a Regency dress? Fun! And the dress is comfy! Going to an Austen festival at a 19th-century plantation? Fun! And surprisingly populated with cute dudes in period costume hitting on every woman in sight! Rewatching BBC P&P with friends and wine? Fun! And it's so pretty and good. Re-re-re-re-re reading all the books? Fun! And they're not just literary rom-coms, they're pretty funny satire and don't have perfectly happy endings, and the characters (especially the secondary ones) are super fun to analyze. So!

raised amongst catalogs

@par_parenthese AHHHH! What magical place do you live that has a festival at a plantation?!

par_parenthese

@raised amongst catalogs Quite near here.

tootsky

@par_parenthese Hee! Been there! And I feel exactly as you do.

RosemaryF

@dorkmuffin When I drink too much my friends like to bring upWuthering Heights and watch me go off on a slobbering rant about the atrocities involved with romanticizing obsessive men and deranged women.

MarianTheLibrarian

@RosemaryF Can you record this next time, because I really want to see it. It would be a bit like Drunk History (I think, I only have a vague understanding of Drunk History).

Speaking of cake, I have cake

@RosemaryF I've always felt that Wuthering Heights represents a very adolescent understanding of emotions like love and anger, complete with the hallmark teenage qualities of self-absorption and poor impulse control. It always seemed to me like a book written by (or from the POV of) someone who never developed adult emotional capability or understanding, and that's why it's so weird and unsettling. Considering how short E. Bronte's life was, maybe that was actually the case?

LooseBaggyMonster

@Speaking of cake, I have cake But the book isn't written from the point of view of Catherine I or Heathcliff. There are often two layers of narrative remove (Lockwood, Nellie), and the book encompasses a lot more than their romance.

IceHouseLizzie

@Speaking of cake, I have cake My take on WH, and it has been awhile, is that E. Bronte was making the same exact observation about the dangers of those kinds of emotions.

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@LooseBaggyMonster @IceHouseLizzie True, but for some reason I've never felt that there is an authorial 'voice' making that kind of assessmenr, even theother characters dont seem to be fully grasping how odd the whole situation is. It has always felt like there's some kind of essential outside perception 'missing'. To me, anyway. But then that claustrophobic feeling could be the point.

Rose_H_Tyler

My earliest memory of JA was going to see the film version of "Persuasion" with my mom (who has always been a huge Austen fan) at the age of 8. I didn't completely get what was happening but it all looked pretty. I now LOVE all the books and many of the TV/film adaptations. It's probably partly responsible for my love of British culture in general. Now my younger sister likes JA too so it's something fun for all of us to bond over. :)
It's hard to choose a favorite JA book but if I had to I'd choose P&P. Favorite adaptation...right now, I'm loving the web series The Lizzie Bennett Diaries. If you're not watching it check it out now!

par_parenthese

@Rosetyler A few of us are obsessing over Lizzie Bennet Diaries in last week's FOT, and definitely plan to continue that obsessing in this week's FOT. JOIN US.

sevanetta

@par_parenthese yessss I knew it, I'll be there!

carrie80

@Rosetyler Another LBD fangirl here!

Has anyone read Diana Peterfreund's For Darkness Shows the Stars? It's a YA post-apocalyptic retelling of Persuasion and sounds great, but I'm holding out for the paperback.

sevanetta

@carrie80 Attention LBDers, is anyone following Socially Awkward Darcy on Facebook or in particular on twitter @ana_barbara's public list for LBD, because shit is going down!!!

carrie80

@sevanetta I wasn't but I am now. Thanks for the heads up. But why does it have to be on a day I have _no_ time?!

Angry Panda

I don't remember how old I was when I first discovered Jane Austen, around 12 maybe? The BBC P&P series were on TV and they were so good I found the book, and then read everything written by her, including the incomplete Sanditon (later finished by A Lady).
And since then I've re-read all the books almost every year. As I grow older, I am beginning to appreciate Mansfield Park and Emma more, but Persuasion and Pride and Prejudice are my absolute favourites.

RK Fire

Lady Susan is fantastic and needs ten times more love than it currently gets.

Princess Slaya

Mansfield Park is THE WORST.

nerdicity

@Princess Slaya Totally agree. I love all Austen but Mansfield Park must have been written by an alien imposter. Terrible.

Bittersweet

@Princess Slaya I could never get over the fact that Fanny is in love with her first cousin. Ewwww.

annagram

I think I was about 11 when I discovered P&P. We were visiting my grandma for Christmas and she had just got the double VHS of the BBC tv series. My sister and I watched it and were completely captivated! I don't think we read the books until a couple of years later, but it became a ritual to watch it every time we visited our grandparents (until we eventually got our own copy).

I haven't read any Austen for a while. I have a lot of time for Mansfield Park (although filmwise, in my head I've swapped over Jonny Lee Miller and Blake Ritson).

likethestore

I take Austen so personally, I can't even read these comments in case someone is bashing on my favourite book of all time. Like it makes me want to ugly cry.

I will always be grateful to my grade 11 teacher who introduced me to P&P and Colin Firth in a wet shirt.

par_parenthese

@likethestore Ah, yes. Austen is a dear friend and a comfort and a delight in difficult times. <3

IceHouseLizzie

@par_parenthese I've been reading your comments on here and have come out of serious lurker mode to say...I think you are my-secret-best-friend.

par_parenthese

@IceHouseLizzie That made my night. And maybe my week. <3

279th District Court

Pride and Prejudice: was the first of the super-fancy set of classic books my parents and grandparents all chipped in to acquire upon my birth and expand on the birth of my sister that I actually read. We, in fact, have two gold leaf, gold embossed, leather-bound copies of P&P, and we can find neither of them because they were read and left in out of the way places so many times between the two of us.

Persuasion: is the best one! My best memory of Austen is probably reading Persuasion out loud during a road trip across the country with my best friend. Complete with reading the alternate ending.

Northanger Abbey: is the reason I don't go looking for ghosts when I visit other people's houses. Not because ghosts aren't real, not because ghosts might be real and then I'd be in trouble - but because it's RUDE and un-English!

Emma: is the only one I skipped re-reading the semester I took Austen and Bronte in college, because of other papers due. But I still remember the professor imploring us not to write our next paper in Emma's voice. Apparently, Emma was particularly infectious, and the prof was tired of it.

Mansfield Park: is the only book I have thrown across the room in a rage at one of the characters. Aunt Norris - if only you were real! I actually prefer the movie adaptation.

Sense and Sensibility: I have read many times, but I have seen the Emma Thompson movie far MORE often. I worship Emma Thompson for that screenplay and portrayal of Elinor.

par_parenthese

@279th District Court "But I still remember the professor imploring us not to write our next paper in Emma's voice." !!!!!

Cavendish

@279th District Court I'm re-reading Mansfield Park right now and I really want to strangle Aunt Norris.

happy go lucky scamp

@279th District Court what's the alternate ending of Persuasion?

I need to know.

par_parenthese

@happy go lucky scamp @279th District Court Meeeee tooooooooooo

Lucienne

@par_parenthese You can read it here.

Brunhilde

I've never read any Austen either. See also, Anne of Green Gables; Sweet Valley High.

Cavendish

I forgot my other Pride & Prejudice anecdote! My husband and I met in an "Intro to the Novel" English class in undergrad. The first book we read was P&P, and I first noticed how cute and funny my husband was (is!) when a few of us were chatting before class started and he said he was confused because he had 10,000 a year like Mr. Darcy and no one seemed to think that was very impressive. *sigh* I love the self deprecating ones.

Now it's almost exactly 7 years later and we're married and expecting our first baby!

nerdicity

I first tried to read P&P in high school and couldn't get through it. I then read it in college and completely fell in love with it. Sometimes you have to meet books at the right time.

Persuasion is the best one, though. It's REAL in a way that P&P can never be.

Emma Thompson's/Ang Lee's Sense and Sensibility is one of the most perfect/most satisfying movies ever made.

par_parenthese

@nerdicity "Sometimes you have to meet books at the right time."

Just... this.

isitisabel

My mother is actually a bit of an Austen scholar, or at least was while she was finishing her undergrad. She took herself on an Austen tour of England a couple years ago--they exist, like, official, guided ones, but she basically decided to just do it on her own. All her stories from that vacation make me so jealous and excited to travel on my own when I have the time/money to do so.

Considering how much shelf space we have devoted to Jane Austen at home (at least one copy of each of the books; P&P is the most at three or four different editions, if I recall correctly) it's amazing how little I've read. Pride and Prejudice was my first, then Sense and Sensibility and Northanger Abbey, though I can't remember in which order. Over the holidays I started Emma, but I forgot to bring it with me when I came back to school.

I think Northanger Abbey is my favorite, though it's hard to decide between that and S&S. I have a special soft spot for it, though, because I used an excerpt for a speech project in 10th grade. We had to pick an excerpt from a book and match it with a piece of music that fit the tone/mood. I used the section where she can't sleep and Austen writes this whole wonderful gothic-style description of a tree at the window and the noises the house makes, and basically just the terrors one can work oneself into at night in an unfamiliar house.

anachronistique

@isitisabel I always feel like Northanger Abbey is sorely underappreciated, which is a shame because it's HILARIOUS and Catherine is adorable.

Also, I highly recommend the 2007 movie (I think it was actually a BBC production) with Felicity Jones and JJ Feild. He's perfect, she's perfect, and they do ~DREAM SEQUENCES~ for her fervid imaginings.

isitisabel

@anachronistique It's so funny! If anyone tells me they think Jane Austen is boring, I always point them to Northanger Abbey. Although I don't think I would've gotten all the jokes if my mom hadn't given me the context for all the satire.

That movie sounds amazing! I will definitely check it out.

Chareth Cutestory

When I was in fifth grade, my grandma got me a copy of Pride and Prejudice that was one of those illustrated novels that are condensed and updated for children. The first line was, "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife. AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT THEY THOUGHT IN JANE AUSTEN'S DAY!"

I grew up to be a feminist, so I guess it worked?

OooYeahAboutThat...

@Chareth Cutestory Thats BRILLIANT i love your grandma

Atheist Watermelon

this gem seems particularly apt...

"Caroline, will you SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!"

:-D

wee_ramekin

@Didldidi "But you must allow that the only dance that my position could possibly support is that of Freestyle Disco."

rallisaurus

It took me ages to realize that Fanny Price isn't the problem in Mansfield Park, Edmund is. What a dope! Henry FTW!

Northanger Abbey is my second favorite Austen novel, after P&P. But it seems like most people put it somewhere in the middle or bottom, what's with that? I think it's hilarious! And Austen's whole thing about how awesome novels are! Can't NA get some love!? I mean, Isabella Thorpe, best Austen villain ever? Right?

Lucienne

@rallisaurus I like NA too!

HMSBeagle

Anyone see the recent Jezebel article comparing Jane Austen to Twilight? I wanted to kill the internet that day.

Kosmiklove

i like the pride and prejudice book, the movie as well. I'm glad that someone like you have a good article about it

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This grown-up book I’m reading features a character who, in the parlance of that era of my life, is a total jerk. He’s basically one of the mean kids, and yet the blurb on the back suggests that somehow he plays hero to the wondrous Elizabeth Bennet of the dirty petticoats and sparkling wit. cigarette electronique paris

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