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Thursday, October 4, 2012

234

Things to Ban Instead of Commonly Banned Books

Commonly Banned: Bridge To Terabithia, by Katherine Paterson.
Ban Instead: Rope swings over rain-swollen creeks; heartbreak.

Commonly Banned: A Wrinkle In Time, by Madeleine L’Engle.
Ban Instead: Any doubts that you are powerful and that Calvin O’Keefe will appreciate it about you, even if you have unruly hair and glasses.

Commonly Banned: The Catcher in the Rye, by J.D. Salinger.
Ban Instead: Explanations of why The Catcher in the Rye is overrated to people who've just said that it's meaningful to them; attempts to talk people out of liking books that they like, in general.

Commonly Banned: The Perks of Being a Wallflower, by Stephen Chbosky.
Ban Instead: Facile comparisons between every coming-of-age novel and The Catcher in the Rye. 

Commonly Banned: Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone, by J.K. Rowling.
Ban Instead: Dementors and everything that is not this gif.

Commonly Banned: The Color Purple, by Alice Walker.
Ban Instead: The practice of bringing up Alice Walker and no other examples in debates about whether the publishing world is overwhelmingly white and male, as a means to argue that there is no lack of diversity there.

Commonly Banned: The Golden Compass, by Phillip Pullman.
Ban Instead: Disappointing movie adaptations of The Golden Compass, by Phillip Pullman.

Commonly Banned: The Hunger Games, by Suzanne Collins.
Ban Instead: Eye-rolling at me when I shout “I volunteer!” to do household chores, or give the three-fingered District 12 sign of respect to the security cameras at Forever 21. I’m not just a pawn in their Games, guys.

Commonly Banned: To Kill a Mockingbird, by Harper Lee.
Ban Instead: Didn’t you listen to Atticus?

Commonly Banned: Fahrenheit 451, by Ray Bradbury.
Ban Instead: Witty observations about the irony of banning Fahrenheit 451, which is itself about banned books.

 

Kathryn Funkhouser lives in Brooklyn and spent a great deal of the nineties trying to explain tesseracts to people using her skirt hem. 

Photo by Paul Herron, via Shutterstock.



234 Comments / Post A Comment

Josh is like Germany Ambitious and Misunderstood

cant we just ban chuck palahniuk in general

Blackwatch Plaid

@Josh is like Germany Ambitious and Misunderstood Seconded.

Blackwatch Plaid

@Josh is like Germany Ambitious and Misunderstood Or, alternatively, teenagers who become anarchists after reading and mostly misunderstanding Fight Club.

leonstj

@Josh is like Germany Ambitious and Misunderstood - Then how will we know who to avoid?

aliceandstuff

@Josh is like Germany Ambitious and Misunderstood but but Invisible Monsters.

SarahP

@aliceandstuff I thought the same thing! But was too chicken to say it first. I liked that one!

garli

@aliceandstuff That's one of my all time favorite books.

Beatrix Kiddo

@Blackwatch Plaid Yeah, I think we need to stick to just banning the teenagers. Because if you actually banned all books that people misunderstand, there's be very little left to read.

whateverlolawants

@Josh is like Germany Ambitious and Misunderstood
At least "Guts". God...

beatrix

terrible..@l

iceberg

I mean ARE these books commonly banned though? From where?

lalaura

@iceberg
Banned from school libraries, mostly.
Details: http://www.ala.org/advocacy/banned

SarahP

@iceberg Banned Books lists come from the lists of books most frequently challenged at bookstores, schools, and libraries. The list changes every year, but many of the old standbys remain. Read more at the Banned Books Week website or at the American Library Association's website.

Rock and Roll Ken Doll

@lalaura
'Hunger Games,' though? That's the puzzler for me.

iceberg

@lalaura ah thank you! i can see why cetain types might want to ban hunger games (too violent? i only saw the movie) and color purple (gayness omg) from their little Precious' library/mind but i'm struggling on the others.

wallsdonotfall

@iceberg It usually comes down to magic and "disrespect of authority." Because that's never something that goes with coming-of-age, oh no.

Rock and Roll Ken Doll

@wallsdonotfall
There's magic in Hunger Games? Or is that just a common complaint?

WHY am I so concerned about this!!?

Megasus

@Rock and Roll Ken Doll If anything, Hunger Games is PRO-family. I am so confused, I'm just going to assume the people banning them didn't even read them. It's probably accurate.

The Lady of Shalott

@Rock and Roll Ken Doll I thought I read all three of the books, but where does the occult/satanic part come in???

Summer Somewhere

@Megano! Well, Katniss gets mad at her mom for shutting down after her dad died and makes her promise not to do that again... so... maybe that's anti-family authority enough for some jerks? I don't understand the anti-ethnic accusation. (What does that even MEAN? Are they mad about the whitewashed casting of the movie too?) Or the occult bit.

Punk-assBookJockey

@Megano! Exactly- people often do not read the entire book that they decide to challenge or they read only part of it out of context. A lot of these are challenged (still) because of swearing and/or sex. Because its apparently still 1952 and we can't have talks with our kids about those things if/when they read about them.

TheLetterL

@Megano! Maybe Katniss' discussions about why she doesn't want children are being read as anti-family? ...although if that's true, I can't even.

Megasus

@TheLetterL well then they really didn't finish the series!

shantasybaby

@iceberg My favorite inclusion in "banned books" is a Where's Waldo where a lady is sunbathing topless
http://www.babble.com/cs/strollerderby/banned-books-week-where-s-waldo/

SarahP

If we get to ban people shooting down Catcher in the Rye, can we also ban people saying that it's the most meaningful book they ever read and/or that if I didn't think that about it I just didn't "get" it?

Scandyhoovian

@SarahP instead of banning them can we institute a smacking policy

i'd like to smack them instead

Ellie

@SarahP No, that's the point!

highfivesforall

@SarahP I think we can only ban the second part, since I think it's fair to extend a ban on "attempts to talk people out of liking books that they like" to "attempts to make people feel bad for not liking books that they don't like".

Megasus

@SarahP I like the Catcher in the Rye, but I would not say it's the most meaningful book I have ever read.

Emby

@Megano! You're allowed to find Catcher in the Rye up to 75% meaningful until the age of 19, after which you're allowed to find it up to 40% meaningful and 22% nostalgic. Meaning in excess of these limits will find you in contempt of literature.

fondue with cheddar

@Emby I didn't read it until I became an adult, so I found it 0% meaningful.

Emby

@fondue with cheddar (formerly jen325) As long as you don't go over the limit, you're fine!

Megasus

@Emby I don't think I've read it SINCE I was 19!

SarahP

@Emby Thank you, this is exactly the kind of policy I wish to enact on this book.

lisma

@Emby Beautiful. I met a guy once, who was well over 19, and his entire life story sounded like a really bad Holden Caulfield impersonation. I pointed this out to him and he was proud of himself.

Hellcat

@highfivesforall I just read something on Cracked about how and why high-school English classes make people hate reading, which, OK--whatever you say, I guess? But some of the comments regarding The Catcher in the Rye just made me nuts, not because I like the book (though I do), but because it seemed like lots of people were saying that, because they hated Holden, the book itself was completely worthless and therefore shouldn't be taught. The whole thing was just a circus of, "I personally didn't like the book/protagonist so that must mean that it is a bad book, period." The whole gist of the article seemed to be that teachers should only teach books that everyone unanimously likes or something. It was weird.

Personally, I never though it was mandatory to like a character in a book in order to like the book itself (same with TV) and I am not so sure anyone was supposed to actively like Holden anyway (other than Phoebe, maybe).

elbows on the table

@lisma and you never spoke to him again! right? right??

lisma

@elbows on the table It was the first and the last time!

@Hellcat I used to teach English. I would usually tell the kids that you knew the book was good when you had strong feelings about the characters. This was apparently an incredibly difficult concept for kids to grasp.

Hellcat

@S. Elizabeth Actually, one wise commenter in that post did mention that it is hard for teenagers to identify with lots of stuff -- The Great Gatsby, for instance. The lack of "action" in it and the lack of life experience for someone that age reading it might lead to the opinion that it is boring.

Another commenter, however, lamented the fact that classic literature was full of writing that was "out of date."

whateverlolawants

@Hellcat Is it weird, then, that I loved The Great Gatsby when I was 15, despite not being world-weary or dissolute?

Hellcat

@whateverlolawants NO WAY! Me too! Though the writer of the article did kind of make it sound that way.

Elsajeni

@Hellcat The Great Gatsby is what convinced me over to the side of "less Classic Literature in schools," because I had exactly that experience with it -- we had to read it in high school, I thought it was boring and stupid, all my friends said the same, its only redeeming feature was the tiny naked ladies in the eyes on the cover, and then I had it assigned again in my last semester of college and oh my God it was the best book I'd ever read. I had the same experience, to a lesser degree, with The Scarlet Letter. But of course, if someone had tried to tell me in high school that the reason I didn't like either of those books was that I didn't get it, or (God forbid) that I was too immature, I would have bit their head off.

Obviously, there are some kids who do get something out of the classics they're required to read in high school, and how much you like a book doesn't necessarily line up with how much you benefit from reading it, but I think that 1) it's worth trying to get more books that more kids will enjoy into the curriculum, and 2) we should maybe reconsider including any book that 90% of kids dislike because "it's boring."

Hellcat

@SarahP Everything you say here is exactly the point that I think the article's author was trying, but didn't quite, make.

Scandyhoovian

i would propose we ban the phrase "at least it's better than twilight" in regard to romance and writing, because it's just about as insightful as "YOLO" and "bears shit in the woods".

soul toast

@Scandyhoovian Can we talk about all the Twilight hatred? I mean, it's really not for me, and I'm not its target audience, but it's not the *worst* thing I've ever read. I think this whole shit-on-twilight meme is based at least partly on the fact that it's for girls and is all about girls' feelings about boys, so therefore it's not worth anything? Because girl's experiences/fantasies about shiny boys/feelings aren't worth anything...? I don't know.

brista128

@soul toast No, it's just a terrible book.

Beatrix Kiddo

@soul toast I see your point, and I think it's better applied to stereotypically girly movies (i.e., "chick flicks") which can be compared to stereotypically "male" movies (i.e., action movies), because neither is really that highbrow, but people make fun of chick flicks more. However, as far as romance novels and Twilight go, I don't know if there is a male analog. I think it's actually fair to say Twilight and other similar books are just bad.

werewolfbarmitzvah

@soul toast I don't really understand the Twilight hatred either. Granted, I have neither read the books nor seen the movies, so I may not have much business talking about this. But while I haven't read the stuff, it makes perfect sense that a 12 year old girl would go crazy over all of it. And maybe they're not good books, but lots of books aren't good books! Why do these particular books become the whipping boys for all not-so-great books?

This also reminds me of how I don't understand why everyone hates on Justin Bieber so much. He's just a teenage pretty-boy with a pretty voice, just like many other pretty-boy pop stars from throughout the ages! You'd think he'd killed a man for all the hate people dump on him!

Hellcat

@brista128 I agree that it was terrible (for me) but I am sort of envious of the people who do like it. I'd be happy to have a bunch of those for when I am in between other stuff from my Yet to Be Read pile, or just want something light and fun and the book equivalent of a Lifetime movie about wayward teenagers. But it was none of those things for me, unfortunately.

practical cat

@Beatrix Kiddo I think the male analog to paranormal romance is pretty obviously nearly all of mainstream science fiction/fantasy? And they may be "bad," but that doesn't mean we shouldn't think critically about why they get shit on more than, say, Game of Thrones.

hahahaha, ja.

@soul toast: My dislike of Twilight began in earnest when my male college-aged cousin gave me an Edward doll for my birthday, because I am female and would therefore love it. Granted, this is more an indictment of my cousin (whom I refer to as my cousin-who-sucks to distinguish him from less sucky cousins) than the Twilight books, but still ...

elbows on the table

@brista128 Have you seen the ReasoningWithVampires tumblr?

Bloodrocuted

@werewolfbarmitzvah I thought the hatred came from the male character's abusive tendencies and the female character's suicidal-without-him tendencies. Also, the writing techniques and grammar are truly uneducated. My neighbor read it for a class in a constant state of fury. It is difficult to read, or have angrily texted to you, as a feminist or respecter of English.

area@twitter

@everyone Yeah, "Twilight" hate has me a little conflicted. I think it depends on why people are trashing it. If it's because it's a series with some disturbing messages about marriage and dependency and (not) being a self-sustaining independent girl, I'm down with that. But a lot of what I see around Twilight and Bieber fever &c doesn't seem to be about "this is sending a bad message", it's about "teenage girls really like it, therefore it is worthless and must be ridiculed".

Linette

@area@twitter My Twilight hatred has to do with me picking up the book and finding the writing almost offensively bad. It was, quite literally, like reading the fantasy journal of a teenaged girl, which is, I imagine, why teenaged girls like it so much.

Now, I'm okay with teenaged girls liking it! And I agree that we shouldn't ridicule it for being liked by teenaged girls, because I've yet to meet the teenaged girl who didn't love Anne of Green Gables and THOSE BOOKS RULE. There's a fantasy element about being that age that the Twilight books seem to hit very nicely, and our thoughts aren't exactly adult and well-adjusted and thoughtful at that age, and it's okay to have books that speak to that particular time of life. For me, the reason I really dislike those books is because the writing struck me as not just juvenile (which is completely fine when you are reading juvenile literature) but actively bad, for any age level, for any type of writing.

par_parenthese

@area@twitter Totally agree. Haters of the second variety need to read ForeverYA.

I had a couple girls in my class who read the Twilight books when they first came out, and liked them okay (one of them would let out a groan every so often reading them in my class when Bella did something particularly soppy and pathetic). We had some good discussions about misogyny, and about the Mormon theology and anthropology that's all over the books, and about how seriously not ok it is to imply to teenage girls that their lives should be absolutely consumed by a man. That conversation: let's have it. But "teen girls are dumb, let's make fun of stuff they like" is a shitty, shitty attitude, man.

Scandyhoovian

@par_parenthese My own dislike of Twilight just comes from the fact that I read 3.5 of the books (I finally threw in the towel and gave up mid-4) and it's just... really bad. That's the only reason I dislike the series.

I mean, the creepy possessive relationships and cardboardy "has no life without her man of choice" protagonist within are definitely not the kind of stuff people should be perpetuating, but those things are not solely Twilight's territory, and harping ONLY on Twilight for it is kind of unfair. However, pointing them out in the context of Twilight is useful, since so many people are familiar with the general stories. I feel like that might have a bit to do with the 'why does everyone rag on Twilight specifically' thing.

par_parenthese

@Scandyhoovian Agreed, especially this: "pointing them out in the context of Twilight is useful, since so many people are familiar with the general stories." Definitely a huge part of it. But difficult to extract at times from the mockery-of-teenage-girls part.

Also, by way of a pitch for classic literature, a favorite lecturer of mine once said that the best vaccine against the worldview of Twilight and its ilk is Anna Karenina. WHICH IS WHY I AM SO NERVOUS ABOUT THE MOVIE. If they turn Anna Karenina into Russian Twilight (i.e., All-Consuming Romantic Obsession IS REALLY TRAGICALLY FANTASTIC, YOU GUYS), I WILL BE SO PISSED.

theotherginger

@par_parenthese what? It is becoming a movie. Oh no. I reread it in grad school, and enjoyed it. I do not want to ruin it for my future self!

Elsajeni

@practical cat And, of course, much of dude-oriented mainstream sci-fi and fantasy is also rife with racism, sexism, romanticized portrayals of rape and abuse, and so forth. Just like Twilight! (A lot of it is also equally poorly written!) But hardly anybody is up in arms about it, and when people do get up in arms, it doesn't make nearly as much of a public splash as it does when people object to Twilight.

I mean, I don't argue the point that the Twilight series is poorly written and offensive, and I don't want to stop anyone from pointing those things out. But there are so many dumb, poorly written, offensive things out there, and it's worth asking why we make more of a fuss about some of them than others.

Poubelle

@Scandyhoovian I don't even get why people are still picking on Twilight when 50 Shades of Grey is out there. The shit makes Stephenie Meyer look like fucking Faulkner.

(I understand the pearl-clutching about "bad messages! abusive relationship!" even less with 50 Shades, though, since most of the women reading it are adults who already have their ideas about relationships formed and mostly already seem to be in pretty stable marriages. Like, the condescending sexism is bad enough when it's teens but when it's aimed at adult women apparently being too dumb to separate fictional fantasy from reality, it gets even worse.)

Springtime for Voldemort

@Poubelle Well, many adult women are also in abusive relationships, and what can look like a stable marriage to distant observers can actually be abusive. But 50 Shades is pretty heavily critiqued within the bdsm community, especially by those who are trying to bring awareness to abuse and rape culture within bdsm. And since 50 Shades is both by far the most popular, mainstream bdsm book ever, and tends to be popular with people who do not already have a good background in bdsm, it has a lot of power behind it to do damage in a way it wouldn't if we had a diverse bdsm book genre outside of Kindle novellas.

Veronica Mars is smarter than me

@Poubelle Ahaha, I totally came down to say "OK, Twilight MAY, POSSIBLY, be not-entirely-bad. But can we all agree about 50 Shades????" I mean, if anything belongs in a poubelle it's the 50 Shades book amirite? /shitty non-pun

Poubelle

@Veronica Mars is smarter than me It does belong dans la poubelle.

Poubelle

@Springtime for Voldemort (formerly papayalily) I have zero involvement in the BDSM community, but I still don't see why "some women are in abusive relationships" has anything to do with women enjoying a badly-written novel. It's condescending and sexist as hell, and blaming a book seems like an easy way out of actually addressing the deeper, societal issues that lead to abuse. Rihanna is not back with Chris Brown because she picked a copy. There's always been trash, and this is not the first abusive or rapey book/cultural product that has appealed to women/been popular in general, either.

Springtime for Voldemort

@Poubelle Well, media does create a rather large chunk of our world. Rape culture happens in part because lots of media promotes and condones it. The book isn't entirely to blame (and I don't think anyone's said that), but it's not totally free from critique, either. Media and culture are not two things which have little to do with each other, but things that feed off each other and reinforce each other. Culture creates media which creates culture which creates media, etc, in a cyclical nature. I don't really know why Rihanna does the things she does, but I'm honestly less concerned with Rihanna than younger women who are more impressionable (and it's not like it's only adult women reading the book), and women who have no concept of bdsm outside of the book. It repeatedly portrays bdsm as something sick and pathological and caused by having a crack whore mother and needing to be fixed (one of the reasons Ana stays with him, to fix him). Ana tells him to stop, and he doesn't. She puts up with bdsm because she's so in love with him, and feels she doesn't deserve him, and thinks it's the only way to keep him. He stalks her when she tries to leave. He takes her virginity, and the next morning tries to have her sign a total power exchange 24/7 contract when she's never had any experience with bdsm ever in any way. Those are not in any way complimentary tropes for anyone who's actually into bdsm. If women want to jill off to it, whatever, but don't tell me there aren't problematic parts of it, because your argument only works if you actually can separate fantasy from reality.

Inkling

@Scandyhoovian
Super late to this, but co-sign on male books not being villainized for their sexism hardly ever. I guess sexism is a woman's responsibility to solve!
For my part, a creepy boy gave them to me in 10th grade and was like ~i think you'd like this~ and NOPE.

onthesideofmyface

@brista128 It is ALSO a terrible book, but a lot of the Twilight hate jumps straight from "this is badly written with problematic takes on gender roles and race" to audience hatred of the "THOSE STUPID TEENAGE GIRLS SO STUPID LIKING ROMANCE AND SHIT" type.

Poubelle

@Springtime for Voldemort (formerly papayalily) I never did say it wasn't problematic, so I don't know who you're arguing with.

As has been pointed out ALL OVER this thread, the problem is that books with a primarily male audience don't get the same kind of criticism, and most of that criticism boils down to nothing intelligent but yet another way to treat women (adult or teenage) as stupid idiots who read stupid things. Oh, excuse me, "impressionable." Separating fantasy from reality is not that rare, even for young ladybrains.

Abuse is a complex issue and pearlclutching over one book does very little to address the actual deeper issues behind it (especially if your argument against the abuse aspects is mixed up with "this portrays my subculture wrong!"). Quite frankly, I think going after a bestseller that will quickly be forgotten once its cultural moment is over is the easy way out.

Springtime for Voldemort

@Poubelle I don't really know why you're assuming that I wouldn't have just as much of a problem with the sexist books written by sexist men, though. Yes, men do seem to get an odd pass on sexism in larger society - but that doesn't really mean anything for any specific individual. And you also seem to be assuming that I don't have problems with other parts of culture, or that I'm somehow pegging all of rape culture on this book, instead of seeing it as one piece of large puzzle. But I am getting the impression that you think that women who are impressed by culture, who would read this book and think that those things are normal, or know that there's a bit of exaggeration but not know where, they are stupid for not being able to immediately and accurate separate fantasy from reality, even if they live in a larger rape culture that confirms much of what the book says.

If you agree that it has some problematic aspects, then please stop dismissing any and all actual criticisms of it as pretty much nothing but sexism.

And yeah, some of it is portraying my subculture wrong. If books make it harder for people to report rape when it happens in the community and get taken seriously, or makes it more likely that police will arrest consenting adults and take their kids away from them because how could such freaks be healthy parents, or be able to see mental health professionals that won't just go "daddy issues, loves to be abused, that'll be $150", that is a big concern to me.

Lucienne

Yes, to Alice Walker.

And . . . to everything else on this list.

Rock and Roll Ken Doll

Aaaah this is lovely!

juksie

well not going to love anything else as much as i love this.

Bittersweet

A Wrinkle in Time is on banned books lists? Why, because of the anti-communism or because of Meg's unruly hair?

royaljunk

@Bittersweet According to Wikipedia: "Reasons given include the book's references to witches and crystal balls (although the characters are not in fact witches, and the crystal ball is a science-fictional one), the claim that it 'challenges religious beliefs,' and the listing of Jesus 'with the names of great artists, philosophers, scientists, and religious leaders.'"

Sincerely, Jane

@royaljunk ....but A Wrinkle in Time is a heavy-handed Christian allegory?

royaljunk

@Sincerely, Jane I KNOW RIGHT??

Bittersweet

@royaljunk And L'Engle was a devout Episcopalian. Although this may not have cut much ice with certain "moral authorities."

Sigh. I guess you can't win for losing.

Sincerely, Jane

@royaljunk I only just read it recently at the recommendation of friends who loved it as children. When I accused them of giving me Christian propaganda to read, they had no idea and I think I may have ruined their naive memories of the book. But still!!! How do you miss that???

royaljunk

@Sincerely, Jane Yeah it's pretty...blatant.

For an atheist I'm overly fond of YA sci-fi/fantasy Christian Allegories. See also: my Narnia obsession.

Bittersweet

@royaljunk My Narnia obsession led to an adult obsession with C.S. Lewis...which pretty much put me on the path embracing Christianity at age 33.

evil melis

Yeah, an Episcopalian. Which is basically a lesbian witch. Episcopalian! Might as well go full Universal Unitarian while you're at it, you crypto-Papist. <---- what literally all Baptists think about Episcopalians.

evil melis

@Bittersweet WE ARE THE OPPOSITE, I was raised on a heavy diet of C.S. Lewis and as an adult atheist find myself reflexively hissing and arching my back whenever I see his stupid books. Can we fight (a fun fight I promise) about this???

maybe partying will help

@evil melis

Can the fun fight include the COMPLETELY WACKY sexually problematic yet somehow awesome Space Trilogy too??

evil melis

MY HATRED FOR PERELANDRA IS AS BOUNDLESS AS LEWIS' PROPENSITY TO CRIB FROM OTHER, BETTER WRITERS

evil melis

if propensities can be said to be boundless. I'm not sure. Godddd I hate his stupid FACE.

maybe partying will help

@evil melis

yeeessss evil melis, let the hatred flow through you

Ophelia

@Sincerely, Jane I haven't AWIT since I was a kid, and now I am DEFINITELY going to go back re: allegory. I was also (given my relatively religion-free upbringing), totally unaware of the Christianity in C.S. Lewis until I tried re-reading them at age 20 or so, and wound up flabbergasted that something I loved SO MUCH was so religious.

Bittersweet

@evil melis You and I have already fought about this, but we can go another round. But do you really want to fight with a lesbian-witch-crypto-Papist?

royaljunk

@evil melis Narnia annoys me for SO MANY REASONS and yet I love it and keep going back, whyyyyyy what is wrong with me.

queenofbithynia

@evil melis DAVID LINDSAY IS NOT EITHER A BETTER WRITER

weirder, though

and novels aside, G.K. Chesterton sucks. SUCKS. Could scarcely suck more.

who could not love the part in That Hideous Strength where the women all put on their pretty, pretty dresses? and that primitive feminine reverence for jewelry shuts them all up for a minute? WHO?

(you?)

maybe partying will help

@queenofbithynia

Lewis' horror of lesbians shines through bright and clear.

Bonus: misspelling of "Numenor."

evil melis

@Bittersweet Ohh yeah we DID fight about this! Okay never mind then. @queenofbithynia but his novels are great and plentiful! So...

queenofbithynia

@maybe partying will help

you aren't kidding on the first thing.

but, I hate Tolkien so I am all for misspelling his crap. Lewis's schoolboy hero-worship of any old idiot who wandered by was never in more horrible flower than with T and Charles Williams. I mean Jesus. One bad poet calls to another I guess.

evil melis

@queenofbithynia ALSO that part in That Hideous Strength was basically this scene from The Big Bang Theory.

evil melis

YES I WATCH THE BIG BANG THEORY NO I'M NOT PROUD OF IT EITHER

Blushingflwr

@Sincerely, Jane I don't remember the allegory in L'Engle. I do remember reading the Narnia books as a kid and thinking "there is something I am missing" because I knew about symbolism and stuff, and I knew that Lewis was using it, but I didn't know what deeper meaning he was hinting at (I had a pretty religion-free upbringing, for a long time the only bible in our house was an illustrated children's story bible). And then I read it in college (for credit!) and DAMN it really hits you right in the face.
But the thing about allegory sometimes is that you have to have the cultural referents to understand it, otherwise it's just a story with a moral.

maybe partying will help

This whole thread gives me life, y'all.

royaljunk

@maybe partying will help omg I was about to leave the same comment, what did I do before The Hairpin, seriously

queenofbithynia

@evil melis YEAH but you know how there is this essay where he is talking about male-female relations in art, and he says sure, men beat women all the time in tragedies, but in comedy it's wives who beat their husbands -- hilariously, with rolling pins and such -- and SINCE we know that comedies are always more humane and more truthful than tragedy and melodrama [PARADOX ALERT], THEREFORE wife-beating is a made-up problem, as feminists would know if they were married and had husbands of their own? There is where all this fatuous crap about paradoxes leads you. And he meant it, too.

and, you know...other bigotries. but as is obvious I guess from the fact that I love Lewis, I don't hate Chesterton because he was full of shit about everything, that can be ok. everybody is full of shit about something, I guess. but he was a dick and a half.

evil melis

@queenofbithynia I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT DAVID LINDSAY I WAS TALKING ABOUT GEORGE MACDONALD GIVE ME A LITTLE CREDIT

evil melis

@queenofbithynia Oh yeah their (Chesterton/Lewis/et al's) logical arguments were amazingly bad. Because oranges have seeds there must be a personal, sentient god! Wait, what? Daisies mean this God is loving! Neo-orthodoxy because I'm a medievalist!

queenofbithynia

@evil melis my favorite thing ever is when Lewis says the striking thing about the Gospels is it is literally impossible to visualize Jesus Christ as being a shorter man than you. I mean, I can fucking do that and I'm only 5'4''! IMAGINE HARDER, CLIVE.

evil melis

@queenofbithynia I love applying his "lunatic, liar, or Lord" argument to everyone who has ever made claims of divinity.

queenofbithynia

@queenofbithynia oh this is not really about anything but DID you KNOW, anybody, that Jane Gaskell wrote to C.S. Lewis to get his opinion on something she wrote and he wrote back to her and told her it was OK except don't describe everybody's clothes so much because only girls are interested in that except not the girls who read books?

JANE GASKELL.

unless it was a different Jane Gaskell but I don't think it was!

siniichulok

@evil melis Ha! I liked them a lot when I was little and used them for escapist reasons (also, since I'm not Christian, the religious stuff went 100% over my head), and now I kind of heartily dislike them too.

Linette

@royaljunk I can't even handle a Christian banned-books committee that thinks it undermines Jesus to have him included in the great thinkers and philosophers category. What, the Son of God can't be LEARNED? He's the SON of GOD, yo. He can philosophize if he wants to.

meetapossum

@maybe partying will help All his novels are sexually problematic! It's one of the reasons Pullman wrote His Dark Materials.

That being said, you can rip The Silver Chair and The Screwtape Letters from my cold dead hands.

anachronistique

@Blushingflwr Yeah, I was raised basically religion-free and what I did get was a very holiday-centric impression of Catholicism and Judaism (by which I mean we did Chanukah and Passover and went to the children's services for Christmas and Easter), so the allegory in Wrinkle in Time flew right by me.

Bittersweet

@meetapossum The Silver Chair! JILL POLE 4EVA.

queenofbithynia

@Bittersweet JILL POLE AND ARAVIS = THE BEST

sorry Lucy but you were only interesting that one time you read the Magician's Book and thought about casting the spell to be the most beautiful and terrible woman in the world. and then you didn't even do it, because why be queen of the world when you could go find a lion to apologize to about something? SUSAN WOULD HAVE CAST THE SPELL.

meetapossum

Also, did you know that Lewis considered The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe to be a "suppositional" not an allegory? As in, suppose there was a land called Narnia and Jesus went there. What would he be like? That's why there's not a direct correlation between the book and the New Testament.

meetapossum

@queenofbithynia Yeah, but Susan was evil and bad because she liked makeup and boys. NO LONGER A FRIEND OF NARNIA.

queenofbithynia

I love every one of the Narnia books, they are all perfect and necessary and that includes The Last Battle, but they are magic books in that every time I read one of them Aslan is twice the dick he was last time I read it. I hate him so much I get the shakes. Fuck that guy.

queenofbithynia

@meetapossum I dunno, remember Lasaraleen? I always liked how she was a total flake whose interests in fashion and marriage were considered by the narrative, not just by Aravis, to be totally stupid, but she was still not a bad person and had plenty of loyalty and decency.

there is a ton of complexity in Susan earlier on, like how she is vehemently anti-cruelty and so compassionate that she almost blows her archery duel so as not to make Trumpkin feel bad about losing -- which none of the other children would have done. I actually feel like her lack of righteous joy in battle is considered to be a flaw in her, a sort of pre-figuring rotten spot.

The treatment of her in the end is super sexist but I really think the lipstick business is a red herring in that it is actually the least sexist part of the judgment upon her. I mean, I read it in one of two ways: somebody has to be left out for the LESSON, and it can't be Peter because he is a boy, and boring, and it can't be Edmund cause he was already a redeemed sinner, and it can't be Lucy cause she is the viewpoint character, so, sucks for Susan. But the other way I read it is that personal beauty is power (for women) and corrupts (women) and Susan liked being a queen and knew she was beautiful and that is not acceptable. that is a little in the books and all over the place in his other writings, so maybe doesn't count so much, and I know for most people the primary text is what you have so the text is what you argue from. which is more than fair. but he liked to group "lipstick" together with jazz music and magazine reading -- so, vices of modernity and frivolity (so, definitely gendered and sexist) but not vices of sex and sexuality, exactly.

blah blah blah sorry.

meetapossum

@queenofbithynia I...really want to respond to this! But I'm going to wait until I get home so I can pull out The Last Battle and re-read the last scene again.

But off the top of my head, I agree with "personal beauty is power (for women) and corrupts (women)" because WOW Jadis in The Magician's Nephew.

queenofbithynia

@meetapossum oh, Jadis. Jadis >>>>>> the Lady in the Green Kirtle. whacking somebody with a lamppost is always a better bet than enchanting them with a lute.

TEAM JADIS

talk about your strong female role models. man. she showed Aslan what was what.

Bittersweet

@queenofbithynia Yeah, dude, Jadis was so great! What a strong feminist, killing off all of Charn so her sister wouldn't take the throne. And she sure showed those misogynist Victorian policemen, beating the crap out of them with a lamppost, so awesome. And then emotionally manipulating Digory over the apple of life, that was some next-level womyn shit.

queenofbithynia

@Bittersweet Iiiiiiiiiit's a bit of a joke. Just a bit.

although seriously if you think Aslan did not continually wipe the floor with her in the emotional manipulation of children category I must disagree. She was more stylish than he but not, alas, more effective.

Verity

@queenofbithynia Aslan was great at emotional manipulation. "Must more people die for Edmund?" Shut up, Aslan.

royaljunk

@Verity Ugh, Aslan. LEAVE THOSE KIDS ALREADY SERIOUSLY

Chesty LaRue

@queenofbithynia I got to play the white witch in a production of The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe, and it was quite stylish and delightful.

T A@twitter

@meetapossum Susan was no longer a friend of Narnia, not because she liked makeup and boys (she was always like that) but because she denied that Narnia existed. Her lack of faith was the problem. She would have been like the dwarves at the end, refusing to accept the existence of Aslan or his works.

anachronistique

@queenofbithynia There's a reason a tag on my tumblr is "shut up Lewis." (Hint: the reason is Susan.)

meetapossum

@T A@twitter I guess I could agree with that reasoning more if it weren’t so specifically gendered. Beauty corrupts in Lewis’s world, as @queenofbithynia said above. The strongest villains in the books are beautiful women. Better to be plain with a good heart, because if you’re beautiful, you’ll totally be vain and evil/dismissive and never make it into heaven. She’s into “lipstick and nylons and invitations,” and Peter and Jill go on to ridicule her desire to “grow up” and then stay at a certain age. Obvious the obsession with trivial things is what Lewis is criticizing here, but why does it have to end there for Susan?

Why didn’t any of the women/girls in the stories get redemption arcs? Edmund and Eustace start out as total tools and then become better, but you’ve either got the Always Good (Lucy, Jill) or the Evil Vanity (Jadis, Lady of the Green Kirtle, Susan). The closest we come is Lucy messing around with the magic book in Dawn Treader, but she’s swayed from saying the spell but the apparition of Aslan. It isn’t even her own conscious choice to not say the spell. “Fear of God” and all, I guess, but part of Lewis’s greater themes is Free Will, and Lucy lacks it. Susan (in my opinion) would’ve been perfect for it, since I think generally she’s way more of a badass than Lucy. (At least Susan gets a weapon.)

Bittersweet

@meetapossum I'm not sure I buy the idea that Jill is Always Good - she's really relatably human. She shows off (and leads Eustace to fall off the cliff in Aslan's Country), she doesn't always take responsibility for her actions, she forgets the important stuff, she zeroes in on the comfort of Harfang instead of focusing on her mission...etc, etc, etc. But ultimately she has the best intentions and does the right thing. This is why I love her so much. Aravis is similar, as queenofbythnia pointed out above. And Polly in Magician's Nephew to some extent.

I'd disagree that it's not Lucy's conscious choice not to say the spell from Coriakin's book. Aslan's face is a reminder that she shouldn't say the spell (which she already knows, deep down), but it's her choice to turn the page. And look what happens...she gets to say a spell "for refreshment of the spirit." Wish I had that spell handy just about every day.

meetapossum

@Bittersweet If turning a page is Lucy's grand move to conquer a crisis of faith, it doesn't hold a candle to the transformation of the boys. Hell, Eustace gets turned into a DRAGON. It's the lack of redemption stories (except, I guess, Avaris, but that has a host of other problems *cough*racism*cough*) for the girls and the dismissal of Susan that bothers me the most.

ETA: I do actually love the books, though, and I am probably going to re-read them this week due to this thread.

iceberg

OK off topic but I want to ask: have any 'Pinners seen the movie Beloved or read the book (by Toni Morrison) and what did you think of it?

***spoilish***:
I started the book but had to put it down because of the horrifyingly casual bestiality (it happens very early in the book basically out of nowhere) and the suuuuuuper-anti-men (misandrist?) sentiments that went along with it. Thoughts?

redrover189

@iceberg Honestly, Beloved isn't my favorite Toni Morrison book (Sula is, read Sula! Or Bluest Eye!) but it's worth soldiering through anyway. It's inspired by true events and while it's really, really wrenching, it's one of those books that's full of really good metaphors and ends up being really cathartic. It's not one of the ones I reread annually, but it's definitely on my re-read list, you glean new information from it each time you read through.

martinipie

@iceberg I would recommend reading it again. It has its share of dated/problematic things but it is considered Important for a reason, that being to give privileged white folks (like myself, don't know about you) the barest inkling of beginning to grasp what slavery meant to those who lived it. Also there are ghosts, pretty cool sentences, mysterious women....and it was one of the few books that were not Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows or The Amber Spyglass to actually make me cry.

edit: also seconding Sula! And also Song of Solomon which is my favorite of hers.

Blushingflwr

@iceberg I read the book for AP English. I don't remember much of the plot, TBH. What I remember is that it was one of the most beautiful books I'd ever read, but I have no desire to read it again (which puts it in the category of American History X of "art that is amazing and powerful and I don't need to experience again")

Rock and Roll Ken Doll

@martinipie
Also terrifically good about slavery? Isabel Allende's 'Island Beneath the Sea.' Completing it was, I think, the last time I cried.

lobsterhug

@iceberg I read it in 12th grade English. We spent weeks dissecting the symbolism. I remember thinking I should like it but feeling too obtuse to follow the story.

I don't remember bestiality, but I do remember that someone was raped in a cornfield (I think?). And the ghost baby fucking shit up.

I didn't have a sense of it being anti-men. The main woman (whose name escapes me) was variously disappointed/abused by the men in her life and given the historical context, it's not super surprising.

iceberg

@lobsterhug There's a bit right at the beginning where she says that all the guys "fucked cows" for the main character lady i.e. that they raped cows so that they wouldn't have to rape her, I just found that to be disgusting but also a pretty low opinion of men, like obviously not raping anything couldn't be an option? And the guy who was suposed to be the good guy I think was one of the ones who was raping cows and there was a bit more description of it. I am fully behind not banning this book but definitely behind also not making anyone read it in high school for god's sake.

kind of surprised at the number of pinners who are just like oh but aside from the animal raping it's a beautiful book.

Lucienne

@iceberg Well, I mean, the main character kills her baby so I think the moral stakes are a little bit different.

Beatrix Kiddo

@iceberg We read Beloved in one of my high-school English classes (I think the teacher was on a mission to provide us with as many banned books as possible), and I don't remember it that well other than the few horrifying parts, but I definitely think it's worth a read.

practical cat

@iceberg I've not read Beloved (yet?) but Sula, Sula, Sula! I hated Paradise but I love the aching, tragic, curious beauty of Sula.

redrover189

@iceberg The book isn't mean to be beautiful - it's supposed to show the pain and emotional anguish of slavery and how it can make you do things that you'd otherwise believe are immoral. If you're expecting puppies and rainbows, the book's not for you, but I don't feel that fictional bestiality as a metaphor for human destruction and devastation is a reason to claim that a book has no value.

redrover189

@practical cat Yes! Sula is one of those books I can reread every year and love even more each time!

Black Socks

@practical cat What was it you hated about Paradise? I'm reading it now, and I have mixed feelings. Makes me long for my HS IB English teacher. She led the BEST discussions about books, and I need to discuss.

iceberg

@redrover189 Oh i don't claim that the whole book has no value, I just found that too disgusting and upsetting to get past - I might have been able to read the book and get some of the value from it without that part. For example I totally understand the part about her trying to kill her babies because what mother *would* want her kids to go through that? I mean I've read tons of books where bad shit happens but that's the only one i've ever had to stop reading.

"fictional bestiality as a metaphor for human destruction and devastation" that's an interesting take on it although i still disagree.

highfivesforall

@Lucienne That's kind of how I thought of it, I mean normally I would not espouse moral relativism but I think it is a valuable approach in this case. It's less of "oh, besides the animal raping it's okay" and more of "oh raping animals instead of people is seen as nice, that's the kind of world this is", so it really just helps you put the rest of the horrible things that happen in the book into context.

iceberg

@highfivesforall OK THAT actually makes sense to me. thank you!

Lucienne

@lobsterhug I think the cornfield is Sethe's wedding night, not a rape, at least in this book. But she does barter sex for a gravestone for Beloved after they release her from jail and I think the mason (or whatever) fucks her on the graves. Maybe you're thinking of that?

@highfivesforall Yeah. Context is a better word than stakes in the case, you are right. (And it's also important to remember that Paul D is raped, too. Morrison's got a lot going on.)

PistolPackinMama

@redrover189 SULA! Read it in AP English and love it still.

I thought the bestiality thing also was about power "we *could* rape you but we will rape cows instead because somehow that is redeeming because we have power dominion over everything lesser than we are."

And also because when there is only so much power to go around, you take it where you can get it, and if having power over cows is a place to have power, then...

But it's been nearly 20 years since I read it, so a) fuzzy memory and b) I was 17. So.

frigwiggin

That Dumbledore gif reminds me of a story my friend A. told me: A. and some other friends were at a county fair, and they stopped by one of those booths where you can get a shirt airbrushed with your name on it. You know the kind. Anyway, one of A.'s friends decided to get a white pair of booty shorts emblazoned with "DUMBLEY-D" for Dumbledore right across the ass in huge purple and blue letters. Then she put them on under her see-through white jeans and wore them around the fair (and hopefully also for the rest of eternity).

frigwiggin

@frigwiggin Aaaand, unrelatedly, I just had to explain Quidditch (both the HP version and the real-life version) to my supervisor and team lead during a meeting. I'm not sure they believed me. Also, my supervisor called Dumbledore "Dusseldorf."

maybe partying will help

Feeling pretty gloomy today. Probably time for a Terabithia reread.

Emby

@maybe partying will help No that's the opposite of what time it is! Gloom wants to read that tearjerker! Don't give into Gloom! Read Arcadia instead!

maybe partying will help

@Emby

But it's sooooo goooooood. And my copy has the really pretty illustrations!

Emby

@maybe partying will help BUT IT IS TOO SAD. IT IS TOO SAD.

maybe partying will help

@Emby

But I think I want to be sad today! At least with a book like that it's a good kind of sad.

Alternately if I can find Hope Larson's new Wrinkle in Time graphic novel at the bookstore, that is what I will read.

Emby

@maybe partying will help I have never gotten the "wanting to be sad" feeling. Because I am a robot of a human being.

/tear made of machine oil falls contemplatively from my camera-eye

queenofbithynia

@Emby Are you saying Arcadia is not a tearjerker??????????

royaljunk

@maybe partying will help There's a Wrinkle in Time graphic novel?? AAAAAAHHH I NEED IT.

maybe partying will help

@Emby

It's nice to have a wallow now and then.

@royaljunk

Yeah, it just came out recently! http://www.amazon.com/Wrinkle-Time-The-Graphic-Novel/dp/0374386153

Emby

@queenofbithynia Compared to Bridge to Terabithia, aka the Saddest Book Ever Written, yes! I will give you that there is tragedy a-plenty in Arcadia, but it is more rollicking and interesting and just plain fun than sad, imho.

Summer Somewhere

@maybe partying will help Ah!! Thanks for posting that! I've been looking forward to Hope's adaptation since she announced that she had the contract, but lost track of time.

katiemcgillicuddy

@Emby Oh dude, I think it was you (and a few others who chimed in) who recommended Arcadia and The Real Thing to me and holy shit, thank you.

Emby

@katiemcgillicuddy Yus it was! DID YOU LIKE THEM?!?!?!

katiemcgillicuddy

@Emby I read Arcadia and it was FUCKING AMAZING. I started on another book (by this I mean I found my copy of Watchmen and felt compelled to read it) but am going to read The Real Thing next. Seriously, amazing, thanks!

Emby

@katiemcgillicuddy You have made a robot-human's mechanical and unfeeling heart swell to three times its usual size :)

P.S. I also heartily recommend Stoppard's Rock 'n' Roll. That one has Feelings and is also very very good.

katiemcgillicuddy

@Emby I am happy that I could help make the gears in your robot heart turn a little faster. I really did find it absolutely brilliant, many thanks again. Gonna be reading a lot of Stoppard this fall. :)

Canard

@katiemcgillicuddy While you are reading Stoppard, do consider Indian Ink, which is just lovely and hilarious but no one ever seems to talk about it.

Interrobanged

@Emby Just wanted to chime in and say that I saw Rock 'n' Roll in London when I was 16 and it was a Transformative Experience.

teaandcakeordeath

@katiemcgillicuddy
I just bought and plan to read The Real Thing a week ago! We are accidental book twins!

katiemcgillicuddy

@teaandcakeordeath Nice! I can't wait to read it!
@the rest of you Thanks for the recommendations!

Oh, squiggles

This was great!

Jen Cox@facebook

Explaining tesseracts with your skirt hem!! Same here.

Megasus

So with you on The Golden Compass.

martinipie

@Megano! The pain of what could have been is too sad. It needs a TV adaptation on the scale of Game of Thrones to do it real justice, though.

maybe partying will help

@martinipie

Gaaaah don't make me want that.

royaljunk

@martinipie But then I'd have to see a dramatization of the end of Amber Spyglass and I'd never be emotionally okay again.

maybe partying will help

@royaljunk

I can't decide if getting Mary Malone would be worth TOTAL EMOTIONAL BREAKDOWN.*

*it totally would as noted above I like being sad GIVE IT TO ME HBO

Megasus

@martinipie OMG YES

itiresias

@martinipie oh my god that is everything i want.

itiresias

@itiresias i read the trilogy right when the amber spyglass came out, when i was 11 and EXACTLY the right age to do it. exactly the amount of kid to get really into the adventure, to identify with lyra, to NOT SEE THEIR LOVE COMING AND THEN ACTUALLY REALLY FEEL IT WITH THAT SCENE WITH THE PICNIC AND THE LITTLE FRUITS AND THE KISSING, oh man. i remember feeling numb and crying and not knowing why and reading it like ten times feeling like it was dirty even though it wasn't, just because i actually empathized with sexual attraction for the first time.

sorry to get worked up there. but really, pivotal point in my adolescence.

Megasus

@itiresias Yeah, if I were to write an article about "Books that have made me who I am today" The Golden Compass would have to be on it.

Lyesmith

@itiresias Oh man, your comment actually made me cry a little.

Brunhilde

Calvin O’Keefe, sigh.

etc etc

@Brunhilde my first book crush! Still swooning.

frigwiggin

I forgot about Banned Books Week! I'm the worst book blogger ever.

frigwiggin

@sudden but inevitable betrayal

Oh, sure! I blog with my good friend (and her good friend) here! I have been a bit of a slacker lately but the weekend of the 13th is Dewey's 24-Hour Read-A-Thon so we will be spamming up the joint with hourly updates as we get progressively more tired and absurd!

cuminafterall

My fourth-grade teacher read Bridge to Terabithia aloud to our class (one chapter every day, after lunch) and when we got to the end and we all cried, including him.

flanhoodles

@cuminafterall Times I have seen my Dad cry: reading me the ending of Bridge to Terabithia. That's it.

alamuzmo

@cuminafterall My third grade teacher read us (still reads to kids) Where the Red Fern Grows. You have never heard an 8-year-old boy sob until you hear the crying that ensues at the end of that book. Ugh. Every year.

highfivesforall

I think that gif could be better (says a lady who has never made a gif besides those deal with it ones), but I'm extremely happy to add "everyday I'm dumblin" to my daily vocabulary.

OhMyGoshYouGuys

If you ban books, it just makes people want to read them even more and probably increases their book sales in the end.

Beatrix Kiddo

@OhMyGoshYouGuys This is definitely true. Throw in a fatwah, and you've got a best-seller!

noReally

When I worked in a great book store, we always made a big deal about Banned Books Week, and did a big window One year, a woman stood in front of the window (which featured a garbage can with Halloween fake fire) for a long time and finally came in, sputtering with rage, and said to me, "I would just like to know WHY you have banned all these books."

par_parenthese

@noReally AAhahahahahahahahaha!!

shantasybaby

@noReally I work in a oublic library and we're doing "Banned Book" week stuff and it's a little confusing to some people- if it's banned why are you promoting it!? But I enjoy explainig it to people and give 'em the whole anti-censorship spiel.

sudden but inevitable betrayal

attempts to talk people out of liking books that they like, in general.

Yes, this, forever, please.

SuperGogo

@sudden but inevitable betrayal But, as we established in this week's Ask a Dude, it is perfectly acceptable to judge and/or not mingle private parts with those who are overly keen on Ayn Rand.

WaityKatie

@SuperGogo Well, there are limits.

sudden but inevitable betrayal

@SuperGogo Discuss, yes. Judge, absolutely. Make assumptions about character, always. Browbeat into changing an opinion, never.

(...Unless it's Ayn Rand. One must have standards.)

elsbels

Yes to the annoying get-a-lifers regarding Catcher in the Rye. It's not a how to book.

Rebecca Cowley@facebook

Laurie Halse Anderson hits it out of the park in her response from a couple years ago to the challenge of her VERY IMPORTANT BOOK, Speak: http://madwomanintheforest.com/this-guy-thinks-speak-is-pornography/

She shone a spotlight on a really upsetting & offensive person's opinion and the internet created a #speakloudly shield of armor. Watch the youtube video of her poem created from letters she's received from readers over the years, I dare you not to cry.

spankminister@twitter

Ban dementors?! Half of us sleep soundly at night only because we know they're guarding Azkaban!

lookimadeahat

@spankminister@twitter But what if you are FRAMED and sent to Azkaban? WHAT THEN?

Poubelle

@spankminister@twitter Dumbledore was always saying they'd go over to You-Know-Who's side if they ever got the chance! The Minister should've listened!

practical cat

The best part of Perks of Being a Wallflower is the part where it makes Catcher in the Rye seem good in comparison.

meetapossum

@practical cat Ugh, thank you. I was trying to explain to my friend why I hate that book, and of course she loved it. Sorry! I gave it two chances, and it failed.

whateverlolawants

@practical cat I liked it, but I read it when it was pretty new, which was what, 9 or 10 years ago? I admit I was kind of excited to hear it will be a movie, even though I don't know if I'd like it now.

Poubelle

@whateverlolawants I thought the movie was pretty great, and I couldn't get through the book, if that's worth anything. It is very much an early-90s period piece, but the cast is incredible.

whateverlolawants

@Poubelle It's already out? I'm behind! I'll check it out.

Poubelle

@whateverlolawants I saw it at sneak preview screening last summer, but I think it's out in certain cities right now.

Jolly Farton

I think you should ban what I do, which is to hate on Catcher in the Rye without even having read it.

but it just sounds annoying

Cawendaw

That picture is the saddest thing I've seen today. Those poor books!

rekabeka

How sad is it that I've only read two of these books (Catcher and Mockingbird)? For the record, I believe Catcher in the Rye to be WAY overrated - but I'm not going to argue against someone who thinks its the greatest thing since sliced bread.

alamuzmo

@rekabeka But The Greatest Thing Since Sliced Bread is the greatest thing since sliced bread! http://www.harpercollins.com/browseinside/index.aspx?isbn13=9780061452963
(I had a used mass market of the old edition. It was great!)

mbeewayne
mbeewayne

Banning books is just wrong - any comments to the contrary, read Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 and all will be clear, just as the Blog's author suggests!

Verity

I keep forgetting to wear my "I Read Banned Books" bracelet, and Banned Books Week is almost over" Thank you for the reminder.

Colin Rosenthal@twitter

Commonly banned: The Satanic Verses and anything else deemed blasphemous by some random cleric.
Ban instead: ironic suggestions that we should ban The Bible and Koran instead because they are handbooks for misogyny, genocide etc.

Miss Maszkerádi

I'm noticing a common thread of "ban snarky and self-conscious attempts at sarcasm/irony!" To which I heartily agree.

Also I must have missed the explicit Christian allegory in Wrinkle in Time? I mean I know it's about love defeating evil but that can be a way more general theme than only Christianity, I figured...

PistolPackinMama

@CountessMaritza The post on sarcasm from a few weeks ago has been on my mind a lot lately.

We love sincerity!

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1161115610@twitter

Yeah, if I were to write an article about "Books that have made me who I am today" The Golden Compass would have to be on it. stained concrete floors

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