Monday, October 1, 2012


"Doctor Who" and the Greenness of the Statue of Liberty

Perhaps, during a spirited conversation about whether or not the Statue of Liberty could be a Weeping Angel ("think about it! someone is ALWAYS looking at it!"), a know-it-all might have told you that said statue has, like a gross penny, only gradually attained its current greenish hue, and would have arrived at Ellis Island resplendent in glorious copper. Now you have something to complain about when purchasing novelty foam hats when you reach old age, yourself somewhat weather-beaten and in less than mint condition.

This is also the the spoiler thread to discuss the mid-season finale of this, a not particularly good season of Doctor Who.

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I like Doctor Who, and I like Matt Smith, but this series has really been more of ah...ooh, well. And there's some sexism. And some flailing about. Actual engaging dialogue consisting of about 15 minutes


All seasons of Dr. Who are not particularly good. That means this one is probably "A pot of pear-shaped" or something equally british.


I really liked this series! Daleks - 9/10, dinosaurs 6.5/10, town called mercy - 7.5, Power of Three - 8, Angels - 10/10
Overall pretty solid.


@Susanna@twitter Me too! Loved Daleks and I'm pretty much on the same page with you with the grades you assigned the others. I have not watched Angels yet. It's just sitting in my download folder, waiting. I already know what's going to happen, as I'm a unabashed spoiler junkie, but I'm slightly terrified to watch it because I know it's going to make me ugly cry. I know they had a lot of haters, but I for one adored the Ponds and will be very sad to see them go. Daleks did get me excited for Oswin Oswald, but I will miss Amy & Rory. Especially Rory because, well, Arthur Darville. Awoooooooogah!


@tessamae I am so excited about the Oswin thing. I gasped when I saw Jenna Louise Coleman pop up with her souffles.
i didn't like Amy much at first, but after she got married she seemed like a much more rounded character and she and Rory really grew on me, and now I'm sad.
When Rory got touched by that angel - WAHHHHHH! So upsetting!


Agreed with all of you above! I've been loving this season. As much as I enjoy the long term arcs (- doctors death, crack in the wall, etc), it's been nice to see some standalone stories. And fun ones at that (Angels in M - not so fun, but you catch my drift).
Ditto on the Amy bit. I started her season late and heard the love from people who had seen more of it, but it took me a while to really like her. I loved Donna, so seeing Amy throwing herself at the doctor in her second episode was a bit of a change of pace. Yet she and rory are two of my favorites (rory especially).
I thought this ep was a great end to their story, and I'm bummed we wont be seeing the two of them again.


@Susanna@twitter I'll be honest, in true Whovian fashion, I was completely prepared to hate Oswin. I think it's sort of par for the course? Not liking new companions at first? But I really enjoyed their banter in Daleks, so I am feeling better about her coming aboard. You know what it weirdly reminded me of? The episode "The Doctor's Wife" when the TARDIS took human form. GOD. One of my favorite eppies of all time, mainly due to them bantering back and forth.

"No. I just wanted to say... hello. Hello, Doctor."

AHsdfiuahsdfhaxdg. I die.


@tessamae I wanted to hate Oswin. I was ready. And then she was so frickin adorbs that I could not muster the energy and by the time she said, "Is there a word for 'total screaming genius' that sounds modest and a tiny bit sexy?" I was on board. AND YOU ARE SO RIGHT about the Idris episode. GAH.

Also, I sobbed hardcore when Amy's voiceover started. That's all. par_ OUT.


I like Doctor Who and Matt Smith too, but this season has been pretty slapdash, if you ask me. HUGE stories compressed into single episodes that make them seem flippant, and character development in tiny increments that have to be rehashed all of the time. I don't know! But there have been some nice moments.

Lush Life

@renegadeoboe Agreed. I feel like I remember there being a lot more moral weight to the 10th Doctor's stories.


@renegadeoboe Yes, exactly; it was all very perfunctory. And the big finale ending didn't even make sense -- okay, so the Doctor can't pilot the TARDIS back to NY in 1938... why don't they just meet in London in 1940 and then fake the gravestones? They've gotten out of much worse scrapes than that before! It would have been a more satisfying ending if they'd just left Amy and Rory back to their lives after the Wedding of River Song, with the explanation that seeing them again would blow the Doctor's cover. I mean, I liked meeting Rory's dad, but not at the expense of the coherence of their story. (Also, what was with the gravestone calling them Rory and Amy Williams? "Pond" is a way better last name.)


@Jawnita Re: the Pond/Williams thing on the gravestone - it always seemed like the Doctor insisted on calling them "The Ponds" whereas, if they followed convention she would have taken Rory's last name and been known as Amy Williams. Perhaps they were even known as the Williams's outside of the TARDIS? It seems that Amy going by "Amy Williams" in her "new" life without the Doctor and only Rory solidifies her choice of Rory over the Doctor. I doubt people in Rory and Amy's life in modern times called them "The Ponds."

Or maybe I read too much into this?


Her name was Amy Williams on the divorce papers in the first episode this season. So yeah, I've always assumed that in "real life" they went by The Williams, and the Doctor (who has always been much more attached to Amy than to Rory) insisted on calling them The Ponds.


@Jawnita What confuses me a little is that their daughter is named "Melody Pond", rather than "Melody Williams". Obviously this is necessary for a plot point, but still, for consistency's sake, it would make more sense for Amy to not have taken Rory's name when they married (as many women choose these days), because I don't think I've ever run across a couple who give their child the mother's maiden name as surname when they are married and the mother has taken her husband's name. (For that matter, even when the mother *hasn't* taken the father's name, children generally get the father's name, or a hyphenation, unless the parents are unmarried, in which case the child still often ends up with the father's name, but is more likely to get the mother's name than if the parents are married.)

Miss Maszkerádi

@squishycat My parents are married, my mother kept her maiden name, and I have her last name. It happens, rarely. (Apparently my hippie-ish parents were following some "old Celtic tradition," and had I been born a boy, I would have been given my dad's last name.)


@CountessMaritza But your mother in this case kept her maiden name, which makes giving you that name a lot more... logical? It's not common but it's probably more common that the situation in DW.

Miss Maszkerádi

@squishycat Derp, I mis-read your comment. :/ Although I thought Amy did keep her maiden name, but anyway. *goes in search of caffeine to re-start brain*


@CountessMaritza You are the only other person I've ever known who has her mother's name, not her fathers! My dad's first wife took his last name, and so my brother has his, but my mom and I have hers. This is all very exciting to me, I don't quite know why.

Springtime for Voldemort

@renegadeoboe The thing is, I think that compressing big story archs into a single episode is just Moffat's deal. Let's Kill Hitler? Wedding of River Song? LET'S KILL HITLER?? (Sorry, Let's Kill Hitler is perhaps one of the biggest failures of a well-developed, well-executed amazing plotline ever, and it gets me ragey). I mean, this one didn't really make any sense. The Doctor can't go back and get them - why? Since when? Ever, not even if they wait a few months or years? And since when does The Doctor give up so easily - if he's such a quitter, I don't want to watch him. And the Angels can't blink you back if anyone is looking at them, not just you, so how did Amy get blinked back if River and the Doctor were still looking? And what about Brian? And just... I don't believe that this is actually any of these characters, so then it brings zero feels, when it should be all the feels.

Miss Maszkerádi

@sophi YAY nontraditionally-named-twinsies! I had to get pretty medieval on the other kids on the block sometimes, because they were always going around saying my dad wasn't my REAL DAD or that my mom was an UNMARRIED WHORE or something. But my mom's last name is much more interesting and sounds better with my first name than my dad's. So it all balances out. ;-)


I think Maureen Ryan said it best over at HuffPost: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen-ryan/doctor-who-amy-pond_b_1924022.html


@Shanleigh Maureen Ryan is SPOT ON, particularly with regard to Amy Pond. I have been so disappointed overall with the entire Ponds-as-Companions era of DW, because they're so mismanaged. Rory is AMAZING. I love Rory. And Amy CAN be amazing. But half the time, Moffatt uses her as pretty set decoration, and she goes to waste.

I got so frustrated I haven't actually watched this most recent season, I just... read recaps to find out what happened to them. It just frustrates me so much to see the same show that gave me Rose Tyler, Martha Jones, and Donna Noble introduce Amy Pond and barely use her at all.


@Shanleigh Oh. Ouch. Yeah, that. Ow.


@Shanleigh Oh, that was a good article. I really think what she said about not letting Amy be important to us, the viewers, was exactly right. See, I *loved* Amy from the get go because I, like Maureen, was a child fan. So "the girl who waited" and became obsessed was a nice parable for all the little girls (and boys) fans who loved the show so much as children. And then we grew up and it came back! (This is why I like Moffat - he gets the magic right.)

But she has done less and less as River has sort of crowded her out of the emotional heart of the story. And Rory, since he exists basically as a foil to Amy, has had even less of a chance.

This ending for the Ponds should have made me sad and it didn't. Plot holes, plus, um, now they live in the 1930s? What about poor Rory's dad? And that girl Amy was the bridesmaid for is really going to think Amy's bad at keeping in touch.


This season is just WEIRD and awkward in so many ways. BUT I will give the latest episode points for dealing much better with paradoxes/causal time loops than Looper, which while a very good movie in many ways makes the decision to mostly not actually address the issues brought up by time travel (not an unreasonable decision, really) and thus is going to (already is, in fact) lead to FAR TOO MUCH pseudo-intellectual fan-wank and posturing by people who are old enough to know better.


@squishycat If this episode was an example of dealing with paradoxes well, I can only imagine that Looper is going to make me want to kill myself.


@sophi Augh, I don't want to spoil anything, but basically the movie deals with resolving paradoxes by...not doing so. I mean, there are a couple of points where characters actually explicitly refuse to explain time travel because it would take too long. The movie thematically touches on futures as possibilities, both in the sense of the future being mutable and in the sense of individual people having all sorts of possibilities based on what happens in their life in the present, and it kind of closes on that note... But it also ends with JGL's character realizing that he's in a causal time loop and stopping it, except that the way he stops it straight-up prevents any of the events of the movie after about the first ten or twenty minutes actually happening the way they're presented, but we end the film with time continuing to move on linearly after the point where he cuts the loop, with no hints from the film of anything else. People are already arguing their faces off about it. At least with Rory and Amy breaking the paradox by having Rory die twice in the same time-space/stopping the angels from zapping him back further so that he *doesn't* die in the hotel in 1938 creating some sort of paradox overload/breaking the loop, I can reconcile the timeline.


For a minute I thought the diorama photograph in that "glorious copper" link was actually dudes building the Lady in 1880, and I was like "photography wasn't that good back then was it?"

fondue with cheddar

@whizz_dumb I thought the same thing! The green statue blends into the sky a lot more. I would love to go back in time and see it as the gleaming beacon it once was.

I'm glad there's at least one other person not talking about Dr. Who. Not because there's anything wrong with that but because I don't watch it.

Jen Whartenby@facebook

Definitely a disappointing season. There's no real story arc, the main players are somewhat inconsistent in their characterizations from episode to episode (due in part to different writers, though it didn't seem jarring in seasons past), and the villains are either ho-hum or recycled. That being said, this episode had so much potential: I loved the possibilities of the noir detective genre, River was back (!), and the emotional resonance of the Ponds' good-bye. It didn't completely deliver, and I wasn't that sad at the very end, though the scene with Amy and Rory on the edge of the building was great. But after everything they did to establish the Doctor's relationship with Amy, I found their good-bye to be very anti-climactic.

Plus, I heart David Tennant, and miss his intensity and his ability to carry the moral ambiguities of the Doctor. Matt Smith is fine, but his Doctor doesn't feel weighty enough. The one stand out for me was Rory, whose character grew in a lovely way over his tenure (although mostly leading up to this season, and not IN this season). It's sad that I was more excited about the "Spies in Warsaw" commercial than anything in the episode.


@Jen Whartenby@facebook I miss Christopher Eccleston, too. I loved it that he was angry and changeable and unpredictable---he was scary, and the Doctor needs to be scary!


@BadWolf I would have loved another two or three seasons of Eccleston, and then David Tennant for...I dunno, a decade? And then maybe someone else :)

Jen Whartenby@facebook

@SarcasticFringehead Have you seen Tennant in the hard-to-find miniseries Blackpool? He dances and lipsyncs to The Smiths. Priceless.

Lush Life

@BadWolf Aaaaaand this is the thread where I get to tell you that your username is rad!


@Jen Whartenby@facebook Only in bits and pieces (see above, re: hard to find). But what I saw was completely amazing.


@Jen Whartenby@facebook Amy and the Doctor's face to face goodbye may have been anti-climactic, but their real goodbye was the afterward, which was powerful stuff and a very fitting close for the relationship.


@Lush Life Why, thanks!

@all Tennant and Eccleston were also in a pretty righteous adaptation of Jude the Obscure together. I mean, they are only actually in it at the same time briefly (Eccleston is Jude, and Tennant is some asshole at his school), but still, holy hell, watch them try to out-man each other in Latin, you will die.

Jen Whartenby@facebook

@ohmy That's a good point. She did so much voice over in those Amelia episodes that the afterward thing was fitting, I guess.


I don't watch Doctor Who, just chiming in to say I know the guy who played Dockery in "A Town Called Mercy." In fact, I may have (very, very drunkenly) tried to get him to make out with me once at a friend's party, only to nearly pass out in his lap. He was a gentleman about it though, even came along to drop me off at home.


@Gussie Fink-Nottle :D

Also: Spink-Bottle. It's in my head. I can't get rid of it. Also something about newts.


I sort of feel like, if any of the episodes from this season had been dropped in the middle of other seasons, I'd have really liked them. But having them all right in a row has been very strange. Does that make sense?

Although, I actively disliked this week's, both as a send-off and as an episode. The fact that there's no way in hell the Statue of Liberty could be a weeping angel was the least of my complaints. That being said, I firmly believe it was past time for the Ponds to go, so I'm looking forward to a new companion to shake things up.


I just finished watching Series 5 (I am way, way behind) this past weekend and I wanted to talk about it with my online friends but they were all crying their eyes out about this episode and not in the mood.


The more I think about "the Statue of Liberty is a weeping angel" the more annoyed I get. It's the one oversized hollow copper weeping angel? In which people go on tours and peer out its head all the time? And it's the most looked-at statue in the history of the United States and would never have a chance to go anywhere? It's constantly got its eyes uncovered in one direction?

Mostly it bugs me that it's copper when the rest are stone. Is this a different species of weeping angel?

Weak, Moffatt. Really weak.


@Scandyhoovian Oh, my god, this entire idea annoys me so damn much, but not as much as the fact that it freakin' happened, after I feel like I've spent forever telling drunk nerds at parties that it was a STUPID idea. Oh, my god. She's made of METAL. People touch her ALL THE TIME. Oh, my god.


@Scandyhoovian I'm still a little mad they didn't leave the Weeping Angels alone and just let "Blink" be the perfection that it was. SO GOOD...

I like to think that Moffatt thinks the Statue of Liberty is made out of stone/marble and he's a terrible boss, so none of his underlings corrected him.

"Hey...isn't the Statue made out of—"
"Yes, it is, it's—"
"SHHHH!!! Carl, I swear to God, if you ruin this for us..."


@Scandyhoovian The way I interpreted it was not that the Statue of Liberty is a weeping angel all the time, in all time-streams, but that it's an angel within this particular piece of time that's been set apart by time distortions caused by a confluence of angels and angel activity. That's not normal 1938 New York, it's Angel 1938 New York.


@Squishycat Ooo! Very good interpretation...did I miss that in the episode, or is your brain so full of awesome that you made the plot hole make sense?


@Lyssachelle : No, Squishycat is right. It's a particular 1938 New York, which is why the TARDIS has such a time landing there.


I am just...so very disappointed with the entire Moffat reign. Or like, I wasn't in the beginning, but in retrospect I am realizing it's all been quite downhill since Eleven's first season. Too much explaining, too many nonsensical tricks, and too little story/character/emotional kick. Not that we need David Tennant eating scenery all the time* but this just feels cold, like we are watching exposed gears turning with no payoff. There's no point if there's no freakin' narrative! I've been reading spoilers this whole season, because I pretty much stopped watching when I realized that Amy and Rory were never going to have any response to losing their daughter to interstellar psychopaths, and River Song went from being a mysterious bad-ass to being a lovesick acolyte. So much disappointment.

Someone, I think on i09, mentioned that Moffat did better when he had RTD to rein him in a bit, and I think that's really, really true---the series was best when the former was writing for the latter's show ("The Empty Child," "Blink," "Silence in the Library," etc). I am slowly realizing I haven't liked it since the RTD storyteller presence went away, and it became a show about shiny loose ends.

I rather liked "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship," though, if only because it was so refreshing to watch Who characters be witty and connected to each other. For once.

*I loved David Tennant and his scenery-eating ways! Loved. I just meant I was excited for a new Doctor who was different, and I don't like the way it went.

Miss Maszkerádi

@BadWolf Exactly, exactly, exactly. This is my feelings on the issue expressed to the last detail. And oh lord do I ever miss David Tennant. That man and his heart-wrenching, Shakespearean-trained, over-the-top-but-pitch-perfect scenery chewing took a wacky and imaginative sci-fi show and elevated it, at its best, to something with an almost mythical-religious underpinning. It was about the loneliness of power, the limits of omnipotence, the redeeming inherent goodness of humanity. Matt Smith is funny and charming but he's not "a lonely god." (Nor does he have DT's lovely soulful eyes...brb, gonna go YouTube everything he's ever been in, see you in a few days)


@BadWolf Yeah, I loved series 5, but since then it has been a hot mess. I love the actors but the writing has not given them any emotional through-lines at all. Like, watching this last episode... I didn't feel upset, just confused and sort of mad that this was how the Ponds were going out. I only cried when they started with the voiceover and wee Amelia.


@BadWolf Absolutely agree. (...perhaps it is obvious who "my" doctor is?) I feel like Moffat has a lot of fun, sci-fi kind of ideas, but is not good at all with bringing any real feeling into them. And I know it's been said before, but I'm saying it again: the way he treats female characters, and his obsession with the world-changing power of hetero marriage and motherhood is gross.

The thing I liked most about Dinosaurs on a Spaceship was that Amy and Rory were separated for a lot of it, so they got to be actual characters instead of two halves of a sitcommy marriage.

Springtime for Voldemort

@BadWolf This is exactly how I feel. I think if I hadn't seen RTD's and especially Tennant's (oh, god, Tennant's, always Tennant's), I just wouldn't watch this show.


@BadWolf I completely agree with you. Moffat's eps during RTD's run are some of my favorites, but (even though I liked S5), he hasn't written anything as showrunner that I like nearly as much.


@BadWolf I like Matt Smith a lot and was so pleased to see he was cast after seeing him in Ruby in the Smoke. It seems like they are letting a great cast support ramshackle storylines.

I want to shake Moffat for some of his sexism.

The Are You My Mummy episodes are and will always be my favorite.

Jen Whartenby@facebook

@SarcasticFringehead Right, and Amy got to act as the Doctor with 2 companions of her own. Very clever. :)


I feel like the acting this season is just kicking the storylines in the crotch.

Smith keeps getting better and better and Lordy, I love Alex Kingston as River, even if they are making the biggest mess of her timeline ever. (Are we pretending "Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead" never happened? Are we? BECAUSE I REJECT THAT, MOFFATT...) The performances are outweighing the material so much is makes the plot holes even wider.

I mean, I'm good with plot holes; I'll suspend my disbelief like nobody's business, but give me something to work with. I can't go "LA LA LA LA, I DON'T SEE YOU," to a Weeping Angel Statue of Liberty.
Nah uh, can't do it.

Anita Ham Sandwich

I completely agree. "Silence in the Library" or "Blink" is the type of episode that sticks with me and makes me love the show. Someone upthread described Moffat's reign as composed of "shiny loose ends," which I think is completely accurate.

Springtime for Voldemort

@Lyssachelle "I feel like the acting this season is just kicking the storylines in the crotch." Add in "the writing" and "the directing", and this is the best way to sum it up possible.


@Springtime for Voldemort (formerly papayalily) agreed.


@Lyssachelle GET OUT OF MY HEAD. I agree forever. Matt Smith is a beautiful creature and he works his ass off every episode to make me forget the plot holes (sample: "Too much time energy to land the Tardis? That's like backwards of true... *Matt Smith raises one eyebrow at River* OH RIGHT TIME THING IT'S FINE I LOVE YOU") but cripes, Moff. Oswin made the whole universe forget the Doctor exists, and yet we are getting like HALF A LINE referring to that, like, EVERY OTHER EPISODE? That is a huge sweeping existential WHATTHEFUCK and we aren't even EXPLORING it? And apparently he's said that there won't be any two parters, so we have a whole season of this crazy-ass rushed pacing to look forward to? BALLS TO THAT.

(Weeping Angel Statue of Liberty made me crack up conceptually, but agreed: come on. When is no one looking at it in the CITY THAT NEVER SLEEPS. What's that beeping noise, you say? It's my bullshit alarm.)


@par_parenthese EXACTLY. You know, I just feel like the best parts about this season are little moments, rather than the story! In an episode entitled "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship", the best bit shouldn't have been —
Rory: "Dad, I'm 30 years old. I don't have a Christmas list."
Doctor: *from far away* "I DOOO!"

or Nefertiti: "Are you a queen?"
Amy: "...yes. Yes, I am."

What should have been the best bit was the storyline about the DINOSAURS in FRIGGIN' SPACE.



I'm confused about the shift in how the weeping angels' work. When they were introduced in "Blink", they were beaten by having them all look at each other; so no one, not even another weeping angel, could be looking at them if they were to move. In this half-series finale, it seemed that if the intended victim wasn't looking, the angels could get them.

In other news, I am really looking forward to The Doctor's new Dalek companion.


@Babette I think the angels work however is most convenient to the plot? Which makes them way less scary, and is kind of sad.

Springtime for Voldemort

@Babette Yeah, the confusion can easily be solved if you don't look at Moffat as someone who values internal consistency as much as moving the plot forward.

Springtime for Voldemort

Can I just say - this thread is oddly therapeutic for me? Doctor Who fandom is... intense, and I keep hearing people talking about how great the episode and season (or series, if we're being proper Brits) is, and how great Moffat is with emotion, and I've sort of felt like I'm crazy with my responses to Moffat's run, this season, and the finale for not seeing the brilliance or whatever. So, thanks, everyone, for reacting exactly like I have, and for reassuring me I'm not crazy.


I guess i'm alone in loving Moffat far more than Davies. Davies' seasons always felt overly cheesy and EVERY finale had the Daleks, it got old. All of my favorites from his run were from Moffat (Blink, The Doctor Dances, The girl in the fireplace, Silence in the Library). I thought there were some truly great episodes last season (The Girl Who Waited, The Doctor's Wife, God Complex) even though the season six finale was so flat (especially compared to the opener).

That said, this half-season was not good. I don't like that they made all standalone episodes, there was nothing tying everything together. While this last episode was great, the other ones were not fitting episodes for the end of Rory and Amy. Granted, all of them had some wonderful moments, but they were few and far between. As much as I love them, the Pond's should've left last year after the stunning Girl Who Waited/God Complex episodes.

Hopefully next year kicks off a lot better. I've accepted Who to be up and down in terms of quality, regardless of season or head producer.


@ohmy I'm not the best person to stand up for Moffat, since I stopped watching after the season six finale, but I still prefer him to Davies. Moffat's seasons do feel kind of lacking in emotion sometimes, but I prefer that to the bombastic nonsensical spectacles that Davies seemed to like, and I don't think Davies was any better with female characters.


@ohmy You're not alone. I couldn't stand Davies in a lot of ways. Tennant was fantastic - how could anyone deny that? But the stories didn't capture the weird mystery of the Doctor to me. Instead we got ridiculous grandstanding and very lame jokes.


why are you using that picture arrgh

I don't think the episode was that great (a plot that makes sense? What is this nonsense?) but am very sad anyway (although I might have been sadder if Steven Moffat hadn't been saying for months, "Rory and Amy are going to leave! And it's going to be tragic!"). I love Amy and Rory.

Mad as a Hatter!

This has been the first series of Doctor Who that has left me feeling almost nothing. Like, I was sad Amy and Rory were leaving, but every episode including this one just feel so dead to me. And like someone mentioned upthread, what's going on with River? Are they going to pretend she didn't die as an archaeologist in Silence in the Library? They can't make her last forever. I don't want to see the show go, but I feel like it's time for some changes again; maybe Moffatt's time is up.


I don't watch, but my guy does faithfully. All I could think of is Matt Smith telling that little girl at Comic-Con that he was going to take care of the Weeping Angels. She's not quite getting the season she was looking for so far.


AND ANOTHER THING. (Sorry, I know this thread is dying, but the Hairpin talking about Doctor Who is the blending of two of my favorite things ever and I'm diggin' it.)

Wouldn't the Doctor going back to talk to Amy as a little girl do some awful timey-wimey things and jack up her entire past?
I mean, she's the Girl Who Waited, so if the Doctor (whom she is waiting for) shows up and tells her that if she waits some more, she'll be awesome, wouldn't that make her the "Girl Who Was the Girl Who Waited, But Now Is the Girl Who Expects The Doctor In Twelve Years, No Biggie..."?

I mean, he doesn't have to tell her WHEN, but she's smart and could figure out it would be when she's an adult, so her childhood wouldn't be defined by constantly waiting anymore. The Doctor would just be something she expects when she gets older, like a driver's license or boobs...


@Lyssachelle My reading of that was that he did a drive-by and that's why she hears the VWORP VWORP landing noise - but does NOT actually talk to Amelia.


No really, why didn't Rory just kill himself when he was locked back in the room? Were they locked in the room forever, unable to leave? I would totally jump off the nearest building (again) or have Amy suffocate me or any number of things regardless that would just set the paradox again. And then, y'know, run like the dickens and let the Doctor know.

Because I don't think they were trapped in the room forever, otherwise how did the pulp detective guy bring River to the skeevy collector guy?

Also, wasn't Amy the same age as him? If he was excited like he hadn't seen her in years, but she dies 5 years later than him (him at 82, her at 87) wouldn't she be somewhere around with him?



@gluecake : He didn't figure it out until they were on the roof.

Rory's death in the hotel room happened *before* they created the paradox, therefore, that Rory was excited to see her, because that Rory *hadn't* seen Amy in years.

But still, there were other plot holes. The Angels themselves being the biggest, in my mind.


@OxfordComma there were also a fuckton of times when they were all obviously staring into each others' eyes and not at the angels. which annoyed the hell out of me.


I love Doctor Who and couldn't figure out why I wasn't obsessively iViewing the shit out of it this time.
Turns out, like others, I feel nothing about it, really.
I miss the good old days where the whole series had a plot arc.


I haven't seen this season yet, I just wanted to say that "Blink" is the best ever. Carey Mulligan!


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