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Monday, September 17, 2012

152

The Cuckold Toe-Dip

[O]ne night this summer when my husband was out of town, a male friend stopped by for a drink. After our second drink, I kissed him. He started to kiss me back, and then stopped.

“We shouldn’t do this,” he said. “I should leave.” After a few ambivalent minutes, he made his way to the door. He knows and likes my husband, and was afraid, he said, that if things went any further he wouldn’t be able to look him in the eye.

The strange thing, though, is that my husband would not have objected.

... A tiny piece of Ada Calhoun's "You May Call It Cheating, But We Don't," from yesterday's Sunday Styles, which sort of has a twist "ending" (about two-thirds through). Also "cuckold," as I just learned, comes etymologically from "cuckoo," the bird.

152 Comments / Post A Comment

nyikint

One blew over the cuckoo's cock

Josh is like Germany Ambitious and Misunderstood

isnt every search engine a 'pornography search engine'?

TARDIStime

@Josh is like Germany Ambitious and Misunderstood
I love this so much.
Because yes. Every search engine is definitely a "porn search engine".

Ellie

This was such an annoying and inane article, and more annoying because you know how unbelievably worked up people must be about it! The trashy NYT style section strikes again.

redheaded&crazy

@Ellie I was ambivalent about clicking through and reading but you sold me! I want to find out just how annoying and inane and trashy it is. I hope you're happy!!!

Judith Slutler

@Ellie I guess I'm sort of glad people are talking more openly about various forms of nonmonogamy now? But yeah, it sure is leading to a bunch of dumb navel-gazing.

Daisy Razor

@Ellie My reaction to Modern Love is always, "Yes, yes, you're very scandalous." (Said in the voice of Peter Falk as the grandfather in The Princess Bride, of course.)

runner in the garden

@Daisy Razor - Modern Love is Thought Catalog for over-25s.

LlamaLlama

@Ellie Ugh this lady is awful. Let's be very clear, this woman is OBVIOUSLY very desirable, just so you know. She's hot enough to "sleep [her] way through Europe." She's so hot that she (and supposedly her husband) get quite a thrill at all the other men who want to do her, but such a callous man-izer, she doesn't even think about how she may be hurting their *feelings,* which they obviously have for her, because she is so hot. I wonder how many female friends she has. Probably not many, because, you know, women are always so catty, especially when you're so hot!

Ladies Who Punch

@Ellie ugh! I actually LIKE Modern Love & look forward to it weekly [that & Post Secret are my weekly faves] but you're right, it keeps missing more than hitting. I sometimes wonder just how unreadable they have to be to get selected. Blah.

RK Fire

@Lana @twitter: I imagine they're also so full of drama and everything, especially when she keeps on talking about kissing men who are not her husband.

LlamaLlama

@redheaded&crazie My new thing is to try really hard not to fuel what I've been calling the "Schadenfreude Economy," i.e., no more clicking on things that I know I will derive satisfaction from mostly through haterade, because all it does it drive pag eviews and $ and thus persistece of content-by-awfuls. It's not working very well, though... I need to start a quarter jar to break the habit. I'll be able to buy some fancy lipgloss in no time!

RK Fire

Congratulations. How wonderful.

Slutface

It sounds like she's constantly searching for validation more than anything else.

NeverOddOrEven

@Slutface
Yea, I'm all for non-monogamy if that's what a couple has agreed upon, but it doesn't sound like there's been a whole lot of negotiation there. More like, "Well he was kinda into it this one time, so this is totally fine. Right?"

NeverOddOrEven

@NeverOddOrEven
And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a cuckold fetish really about watching and being present? It seems like this is conflating cuckolding with non-monogamy, which isn't helping anyone.

Slutface

@NeverOddOrEven And she flipped out when she found out about his affair. It's only okay if she steps outside the marriage which goes against the "we" part of the title of the article itself.

H.E. Ladypants

@NeverOddOrEven I think a cuckold fetish just involves knowing. I imagine it takes slightly different forms for lots of people.

But yeah, I am kinda bothered by that conflation, too. It seems to be that agreed-upon non-monogamy kind of excludes cuckolding, if only because it removes the concept from the equation.

Judith Slutler

@H.E. Ladypants nah, pretty sure the "agreed-upon" part of cuckolding is that the couple is like "Hey one of us eroticizes being cheated on, so the other one of us will give permission for the other to 'cheat'". I've always heard it explained as being kind of like a humiliation fetish. or say a person is into being tickled until they scream "noooooo" and laugh until they cry, the tickling might SEEM to be nonconsensual, but there is a consensual agreement that the person wants to be tickled till they physically can't take it anymore, and beyond that.

So yeah bizarre analogies aside, cuckolding is def. agreed upon by both parties

NeverOddOrEven

@H.E. Ladypants
I think there's probably a slight difference between the definition of the word "cuckolding" and a "cuckold fetish." And of course every situation is going to be unique.
But overall I think you're right. Non-monogamy does kind of necessitate cuckolding, but cuckolding doesn't necessitate non-monogamy if it's a strictly-in-the-bedroom-while-I'm-there kinda thing.

Bittersweet

@Slutface That was the most annoying thing. It's perfectly acceptable for her to kiss other men, but when her poor husband falls for someone else, it's drama and flying crockery.

Lily Rowan

@Bittersweet And we're talking about two kisses, right? I cannot stop rolling my eyes.

Blushingflwr

@NeverOddOrEven It depends on the person. For some guys, they don't necessarily want to watch, they just want to know about it. Other guys want to watch. For a lot of men want it's about humiliation, so they need to know about it, but the way the story is told is important.

H.E. Ladypants

@Emmanuelle Cunt I think you said what I meant only much more clearly.

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

@Bittersweet I think my band name or album title will be "Drama and Flying Crockery." Thanks!

wharrgarbl

@NeverOddOrEven Nah, it's about the infidelity itself. A lot of couples with that going on don't even cheat (for whatever internal or external reasons are specific to that couple), they'll just narrate cheating scenarios or make shit up as dirty talk during sexy-times. Though a lot of couples who might want to watch the other one cheat have a hard time doing it because you have to find someone else who's okay with being watched; it's way easier to cheat and then come home and talk about it to get your partner off.

wee_ramekin

@Slutface I said this on another thread, but I figure I'll reply here too:

I think that you can have a non-monogamous relationship where one party has more "freedom" than the other. If we're taking her at her word and believe her that her husband has a cuckold fetish (which, sure, I'll believe that), then their marital agreement might very well be that she is allowed to "cheat" and he isn't. He's the one who gets off on knowing that she's "cheating", and while she's also enjoying the whole "kissing a dude who is not my husband" aspect, the essential part of the equation is that she is telling him about it. They both get off on it. That's a lot different from what he did, which was an emotional affair that he kept secret from the author. Given the context and their specific relationship rules, I can completely understand why she freaked out.

NeverOddOrEven

@wee_ramekin
That's all well and good, this just unsettles me because it seems from what was written that the agreement that she can "cheat" was inferred and not explicitly discussed and agreed upon by both of them.
Maybe it was, but I think you have a responsibility to make these things very clear for people who are unfamiliar with the lifestyle. Particularly one with so many stigmas, misconceptions and assumptions tied to it.

wee_ramekin

@NeverOddOrEven Yes, I think you're right about that. And I didn't even think about whether or not they had actually discussed it; as someone pretty familiar with talking about non-monogamous relationships, I completely assumed that they had.

skyslang

@NeverOddOrEven Well, if this "agreement" wasn't "explicitly discussed" before this article, it certainly will afterward! Nothing like writing a NY Times article to get the conversation flowing...with your husband, your friends, your family, your coworkers....

redheaded&crazy

"we were young by New York standards: 24 and 25"

ancient by all other standards ... in related news, i have branded myself an old maid who will die alone.

Judith Slutler

@redheaded&crazie Also, men are like European countries, full of tobacco smoke and croissants

redheaded&crazy

@Emmanuelle Cunt new idea: having given up on finding true love, i shall now fashion myself a croissant man with whom I shall live out my end days. Well, croissant MEN because y'know, dude's gonna get eaten pretty quick-like.

redheaded&crazy

@redheaded&crazie oooooh NOW who's badass and nonmonogamous?!

RK Fire

@redheaded&crazie: Badass and nonmonogamous with a buttery flaky crust!

WaityKatie

@redheaded&crazie We were old by medieval standards...

OhMarie

@redheaded&crazie "I don't want to get married as much as I want to be dipped in a vat of warm, rising bread dough"

Judith Slutler

@OhMarie I'm glad we can all agree on what is actually Modern Love: total obsession with delicious carbs

Megasus

@redheaded&crazie If you are an old maid, then I am well into hag territory.

Reginal T. Squirge

*Boardwalk.

But also the other thing because he called Buscems a pig.

wee_ramekin

@redheaded&crazie I just want you to know that you continually give me reasons to love you. Every day, my gingery little Nutball. Every. Day.

Reginal T. Squirge

@Reginal T. Squirge

Ugh. I was trying to talk about last night's Boardwalk Empire but the Internet connection at work is all fucked up and I just want to go home and go back to sleep. Today has just been The Worst.

cee
cee

@redheaded&crazie yes but

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUbg5fg9SdU

redheaded&crazy

@wee_ramekin the love is entirely ENTIRELY mutual and I'm not just saying that because you found my croissant soul mate. Your pictures were apparently 2HAWT2HANDLE and have disappeared from the main page, but I saw them and oh. Oh I must have him!

I ... I want somebody to soulfully munch on croissants while texting me.

FINE I HAVEN'T GIVEN UP ON TRUE LOVE YET.

Megasus

@redheaded&crazie I saw them too, and would definitely Tap Dat.

elbows on the table

is it just me or did her tone sound really sort of off-puttingly smug at times?

ragazza

@elbows on the table It's not just you.

nik
nik

@elbows on the table But is there a less smug way of writing about nonmonogamy?

I mean, yes, I did find the article kind of vapid, but I also feel that internet commenters tend to be pretty harsh on first-person accounts about nonmonogamy. Surely someone somewhere has written a thoughtful personal account about opening up a relationship? And can someone please link to it?

elbows on the table

@nik It's a good question! I mean, I want to reply, "Yes!, there's *always* a way of writing less smugly about ____"... but then I'm pulled up short because, of course, I haven't done it so I really have no idea.

I feel like I went in legitimately curious, though, and was turned off to the article mostly by some of her phrasing. Maybe just a personal thing?

Ophelia

@elbows on the table I think that's a requirement for the NYT Style section. The editors add it in if the writer isn't smug enough.

City_Dater

@elbows on the table

But this isn't even about non-monogamy! She apparently likes to flirt with and eventually kiss her single male friends without much regard for their feelings (and her husband is okay with this, allegedly), but when her husband had an actual affair she freaked out and they briefly split up. This is not about a poly marriage; this is about being an asshole.

elbows on the table

@City_Dater Yeah, I noticed later that when she tries to explain it (that paragraph that starts "Maybe..." on the second page) she talks an awful lot about her shame and despair, too. So many unanswered questions about the way she's portraying this relationship/her emotional state because of it/etc.

harebell

@elbows on the table

I thought maybe she had gotten "permission" to cheat *because* of that incident with her husband falling in love with someone else -- that that was one of the changes in the relationship that allowed them to get back together. And that she didn't want to admit it too fully to us. Though maybe I was reading between the lines too much?

wee_ramekin

@City_Dater Well, I think that you can have a non-monogamous relationship where one party has more "freedom" than the other. If we're taking her at her word and believe her that her husband has a cuckold fetish (which, sure, I'll believe that), then their marital agreement might very well be that she is allowed to "cheat" and he isn't. He's the one who gets off on knowing that she's "cheating", and while she's also enjoying the whole "kissing a dude who is not my husband" aspect, the essential part of the equation is that she is telling him about it. They both get off on it. That's a lot different from what he did, which was an emotional affair that he kept secret from the author. Given the context and their specific relationship rules, I can completely understand why she freaked out.

elbows on the table

@wee_ramekin I just wonder if the "cheating" is even healthy for her. I can't get past her description of her feelings after kissing that guy - shame/despair. That bothers me a bit.

City_Dater

@wee_ramekin

However, if these are the terms of their relationship, they're using these guy friends she flirts up as sex toys, with a total lack of respect for their feelings. Which I'm pretty sure makes them (the couple) assholes.

wee_ramekin

@City_Dater That's a good point. It does seem like they'd benefit from more communication around this issue, both for themselves and for her future partners.

fabel

@harebell I am thinking the same thing.

skyslang

@nik Thoughtful, yes, that would be nice....I'm thinking I'd like someone to write about non-monogamy with a little more self-awareness and maybe, as shocking as it seems, with a little humor. These articles are always so fucking dramatic and serious! Levity, people. This isn't war reporting.

rianne marie

@nik notyourmothersplayground.com/
A friend's blog about her open marriage. They've been open for a long time so it's not so much 'voila! non-monogamy!' but it's interesting well-written stuff about being open and non-dramatic and smug about it.

nik
nik

@rianne marie Thank you!

Scandyhoovian

I tried to read this article but I spent the first few paragraphs going "..." and then gave up. Congratulations on your life? I guess?

rimy

I hope she didn't publish it under her real name. Not because it's scandalous or whatever, but because I just felt embarrassed for her through the whole thing. And I feel bad for her husband.

Beatrix Kiddo

@rimy I'm pretty sure that's her real name-- or at least, it's the name she's been using as a writer for a long time (maybe for Nerve?), although I kind of remember her being more interesting in the past.

TheclaAndTheSeals

@Beatrix Kiddo Yeah, I remember liking her writing for Nerve (before the original founders/editors left). I'm not clicking through and choosing to remember her as she was then.

(Fully acknowledging that maybe she was awful in the past but I didn't realize it.)

Gwdihw

THis doesn't answer my question that always surfaces when I read articles about cuckold fetishes: where can I find a guy who has a cuckold fetish, a foot fetish (for foot rubs), and likes to clean?

Or is that misandrist?

Porn Peddler

@l'esprit de l'escalier I approve this misandry.

elbows on the table

@l'esprit de l'escalier apparently in New York! (but only if you're 24-25?)

Gwdihw

@Porn Peddler Thanks.

I sure hope my husband doesn't read that shopping list!

@elbows: old enough to know better?

Josh is like Germany Ambitious and Misunderstood

@l'esprit de l'escalier dudes who like these things are typically so shamed by society for liking them they become Morlocks.

Gwdihw

@Josh is like Germany Ambitious and Misunderstood Pale
Skin is just fine if they're hottt

Josh is like Germany Ambitious and Misunderstood

@l'esprit de l'escalier man u are describing me more and more

Porn Peddler

@l'esprit de l'escalier oh wait, you know, I legit know a guy that fits that description...so, actually, the answer is Rochester.

wallsdonotfall

@Josh is like Germany Ambitious and Misunderstood This reminds me of an ad I've seen posted every few weeks in the Craigslist casual encounters section (guilty pleasure/alienation-from-society reading): a 20something dude gets off on being a houseboy and just wants to come over and scrub floors or whatever while the lady of the house either bosses him around or does her own thing. As far as I can tell, that's it--he doesn't say anything about wanting to mess up those newly-clean floors by wanking all over them or anything. I just mopped half the apartment yesterday and really don't want to do the second half, so I'm honestly wondering whether this is a legit/ethical thing and we could both get what we want if I contact him?

Gwdihw

@Porn Peddler Attic-wife: not on the list!!!
@Josh: I knew it! You don't have an attic-wife, do you? It's a game-changer.

Blushingflwr

@l'esprit de l'escalier You can find them, it's finding the ones who aren't also a bit creepy that's hard.

elbows on the table

@wallsdonotfall wait, would you even have to pay him for the labor, or is it just rewarding enough to him that he's game to scrub for free?

wallsdonotfall

@elbows on the table I think the deal is that he'll come over, clean your house, and leave without payment or sex! So I'm curious whether that's actually the case or whether it gets more complicated. I'd go find the ad, but I'm at work.

elbows on the table

@wallsdonotfall I fail to see anything wrong with this at all. (Of course that could be because I [mostly] hate housework, but still.)

Porn Peddler

@elbows on the table ....I want to interview this guy for my site.

Lily Rowan

@wallsdonotfall I have seen those ads and thought twice myself! I can be mean to someone cleaning my house, I'm sure...

elbows on the table

@Porn Peddler I want to hire him to clean my house!

Gwdihw

@elbows on the table Savage Love has talked about these arrangements in the past. I find it fascinating.

And possibly mutually beneficial: sex work I fully support!

I'm horrid today, really.

wallsdonotfall

@l'esprit de l'escalier Wellllll... if I can find the ad later, I will email him and report back.

elbows on the table

@wallsdonotfall Yes! (Also: Guys I feel vaguely voyeuristic about this!)

KeLynn

@wallsdonotfall - I think "morally" or whatever there is absolutely no problem with it. But I'd personally be wary of inviting a stranger into my house because, if it sounds too good to be true...

Ellie

@wallsdonotfall I see that kind of ad a lot!

I read Craigslist obsessively (I have gone on a Craigslist date once before, and once in a while I email with someone, but mostly I just like to read it) and I have noticed a HUGE uptick in domination themed ads post-Fifty Shades of Grey. Literature really does influence social trends, ugh.

Gwdihw

@KeLynn I think that an interview at a public place for coffee would be reasonable, as well as letting a friend know when he arrives/leaves until trust is established.

Gwdihw

@Ellie Please- edit to add scare quotes to "literature" in above comment! :-)

wee_ramekin

@Ellie I doubt Fifty Shades really influenced/created peoples' kinks a whole lot, I think it just normalized them and made people feel okay with admitting to them.

ThatWench

@wallsdonotfall Yeah, genuine service submissives are few and far between, but they do exist. The thing is, if they manage to hook up with an established d/s community, they tend to get snatched right up. Which is what gives me pause about the CL listings; it's possible he's a wonderful little perv who just hasn't found such a group, but it's also possible he's been shuffled back out of such a group for poor behavior (ie, creepiness, misrepresentation, poor respect for consent), or the ad is otherwise misrepresenting something (he is into wanking it, he has some other motive, he isn't real but someone's fantasy, etc.)

So, by all means, contact him if you're up for it (no reason to rule out the first possibility), but plan to do a lot of up-front trust-building work. Ideally, at the end, you'll just have a standing weekly date that consists of floor-scrubbing and verbal abuse, but at the front-end, I'd imagine you'll want to put as much work into it as any relationship formed with a stranger met on the internet. (Ie, meet for coffee, communicate some strict groundrules, get his real name (and possibily a character witness), have him meet everyone else who lives in your home before he enters your home, etc.)

contrary

@ThatWench @wallsdonotfall I was just coming down here to say something very similar. If you happen to be in NYC, I would be especially thorough in your "background check" (NYC's kink community is pretty large and very active, if he isn't new to this kind of thing I'd pretty surprised if he'd never rolled with with a more experienced crowd). Please report back and let us know how it goes!

Ellie

@wee_ramekin Oh yeah, that's what I meant. My impression from the ads is that they're from guys who were always into this, trying to attract girls who thought the book was super dreamy and totally want to BE the protagonist now.

rimy

Also, I really like reading personal essays and advice columns etc (obv, I love the Hairpin) but the NY Times Style column almost always screws it up! Why? Even the Vows column usually sucks. Sometimes it's deliciously bizzare (like the time the bride made her soon-to-be-husband lose weight before she agreed to marry him, which was horrible) but usually not. I read that section every Sunday and then feel condescended to for about an hour afterward.
/end rant

VDRE

I feel like there has to be more nuance to their setup than she presented because it reads like the only non monogamy that's really happening is that she kisses dudes that aren't her husband sometimes and then everyone involved feels bad about it after except her husband who I guess is kind of turned on? This doesn't seem like the best arrangement.

Dancingbear

"this one time nothing happened. and this other time nothing happened. also when i'm jealous sometimes i throw things."

Beatrix Kiddo

@Dancingbear Yeah, this was kind of a non-story. How do people get hired to write about nothing like this?

Dancingbear

@Beatrix Kiddo ugh. i know. in search of answers and i've fallen into an ada calhoun internet rabbit hole. (yes she used her real name) and apparently she was selected to discuss "here comes honey boo boo" on today? and she met honey boo boo's mom?!

http://theclicker.today.com/_news/2012/08/20/13375707-entertainment-or-exploitation-experts-disagree-about-honey-boo-boo?lite

spoiler alert: she has more non-opinions.

Beatrix Kiddo

@Dancingbear And don't get me started on that awful Amy Sohn and her stupid article about how all Park Slope parents are edgy cheaters and drug addicts.

Gwdihw

@Beatrix Kiddo I kind of want to hate-read that book. I sort of doubt my local library will be adding it to the stacks, though.

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

@Dancingbear Yeah, I am not a fan of arguments getting physical, no matter who did what to whom. If you have to resort to throwing things and cannot rely on your words, take a walk and calm the fuck down.

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

"You May Call It Cheating, But I Don't Because I Am Unaware of Other People's Feelings. My Husband Might Call It Cheating, But He's a Dirty Cheater So He Doesn't Count!"

Megasus

IT'S NOT CHEATING IF YOU HAVE PERMISSION GAWD. *massive eyeroll

Rock and Roll Ken Doll

"Nothing new to see here folks, move along."

karion

If I am reading between the lines, and I like to think I am, the husband feels like a juicebox for cheating, and gets off on (or feels he deserves) the punishment from his wife, who gets off on the thrill of kissing other men (who make her feel desirable).

Whatever floats your boat and all that.

solaria

did anyone else read "I’m embarrassed to say that, because it evokes the specter of those ’70s key parties where people espoused free love, groped strangers in hot tubs and lectured others about how monogamy isn’t “natural.” (As if that means anything. Living indoors isn’t natural, but we aspire to do that, too.)"

...UHhhh yeah. We still go outside everyday though, don't we?, pretty much? And there are people who are into spending TONS of time outside, or even testing their limits to the point where they might die, and there are people who are happiest with nachos and a laptop on their stomach. And none of those people are stigmatized in the way publicly non-monogamous couples are. {ehh, right people who have been in publicly non-monogamous couples?}

wee_ramekin

The thing that makes me laugh is that NYT readers probably think this column is really edgy? Egad, I wonder what it's like to live in a world where you don't know that Savage Love exists.

solaria

@wee_ramekin because OMG KISSES RIGHT?! I MEAN, KISSES (well, i mean like one per customer, and only occasionally, and well, i don't know, but KISSES).

wee_ramekin

@sunshinefiasco Hahaha, I know. I mean, I have never tried non-monogamy and don't know whether or not I will, but as a young, queer, internet-reading person, I have looooooooong overcome any surprise at the suggestion. I just picture all these middle-aged, heterosexual WASPs feeling super edgy and cool because they're starting to talk about open relationships, and I just want to be like "If you think this is crazy, what are you going to do when they bring up butt-plugs (or whatever)?". Heh.

RK Fire

@wee_ramekin: Oh god, now I'm just imagining an alternate universe where the author goes around, occasionally giving out butt plugs, like a little gift. "I really like you.. here's a butt plug."

EpWs

@RK Fire "I am allowed to kiss you and do things with this. Nothing in between."

Shayna

@wee_ramekin My holiday conversations involved how many of my cousins roommates/their significant others has she kissed. Meanwhile my long-suffering aunt, the only over-40 at the table, was like "O.O"

Ham Snadwich

Kissing is suddenly cuckoldry? Or is this like the Evangelical version of cuckoldry?

"Ooh yeah baby, I hugged some guy real good today. Must've held it for like 1...2 seconds."

wee_ramekin

@Ham Snadwich

"Uh huh yeeeeeeeeah. Totally shook that guy's hand for longer than entirely socially appropriate. I bet that gets you hot, doesn't it? *heavy breathing*"

Ham Snadwich

@wee_ramekin - "He was all 'You look very nice today.' and I was all 'Thank you, I like your tie'"

wee_ramekin

@Ham Snadwich "He poured himself a drink from the water cooler as I watched."

Ham Snadwich

@wee_ramekin - "Did you catch the game over the weekend?" he murmurred, knowing that I had.

wee_ramekin

@Ham Snadwich "Is this yours?" he inquired knowingly, as he handed me my print-out from the printer tray.

SarahDances

@Ham Snadwich I let him stand on the escalator step immediately behind me, instead of two behind like most people do.

wee_ramekin

@SarahDances "Hold the elevator!" I cried out, and he slipped his long, thick fingers through the closing doors, permitting my entrance into the moving chamber.

Ham Snadwich

@wee_ramekin "You know..." he paused, clearing his throat. "This printer is only supposed to be for presentation material." He grinned slyly; an unspoken promise.

wee_ramekin

@Ham Snadwich

He grinned slyly; an unspoken promise.

HAHAHAHAHA, you are great.

Also, I really feel for this poor, fictional guy that we have created. I hope his settlement in the workplace sexual harassment lawsuit is a sizable one.

Ham Snadwich

@wee_ramekin - Thanks, I spent summers at my grandma's house where the only reading material was 50 year old Good Housekeepings and boxes and boxes of semi-pornographic romance novels.

Ham Snadwich

@wee_ramekin - Speaking of pornographic, I think we can all agree that SarahDances took things too far.

wee_ramekin

@Ham Snadwich Yeah, seriously SarahDances. Trollop. ~*~Side-Eye of Shaaaaaame~*~

iceberg

@Ham Snadwich @wee_ramekin this thread is the best thread.

solaria

@Ham Snadwich I mean, standing near someone from behind... this is the stuff of a "pornography search engine".

Megasus

@Ham Snadwich "You have...ketchup on your blouse ma'am," he said with a knowing smirk. I could swear his eyes lingered on the stain as I tried in vain to wipe it off, and I knew exactly what that meant.
(I hope I am not too late. This may or may not be based on a true story/this is what my love life is like now)

SarahDances

@Ham Snadwich I'm not ashamed. So long as you walk to the left and stand to the right, I'm yours.

Regina Phalange

I have to admit, I am weirdly envious of someone who's got the mojo to have multiple people into them at once. Lately I've been wondering if there were some big Allure Lessons I missed.

RK Fire

@Regina Phalange: I am too, even though I am happily with someone! I kind of think it has to do with the jerkcircus and this idea that we should be desirable to everyone, forever, and I've just been incredibly oblivious in the world of flirting and attraction.

skyslang

@RK Fire As a single who struggles to find one person with whom I share a mutual attraction, articles like this sometimes piss me off. It always feels like bragging.
This article didn't though, for some reason. I just felt sorry for the writer. She seems in denial that her marriage is fucked up and falling apart.
I mean he FELL IN LOVE with someone else. They don't seem to be communicating very well. The article is FULL of half-assed justifications and overwrought explanations. This isn't an open marriage (which could work!) this is a marriage on it's last legs.

Nocs

Most of the piece made me feel unpleasant feelings about the writer BUT this quote is very timely for me: "attraction comes on like a flu. Then, eventually, the fever breaks."

I need to remind myself of that RIGHT NOW because there is a new crush, but he is a coworker of my brother's, so I'd better tread carefully.

elbows on the table

The more I look at this the more I think of toe dip being some sort of super-gross edible(?) spread that goes on crackers or chips at parties, and the more disgusted I get with my imagination. At this rate I won't want dinner.

Amphora

This is like the time I was at a party with this couple who had a supposed arrangement where the wife could hook up with people (the husband I guess could too, but he clearly was devoted to her exclusively). So in the middle of the party she just up and goes off to the bedroom with an acquaintance and stays in there for 20 minutes while we all sit in the living room. So I'm the jackass who noticed she was gone after a while and was all, "Hey, where is she?" at her husband and he just gave me this sad long-suffering look. Jesus guy, there's a limit to what a person should put up with.

Queen of Pickles

Ahhh, I used to work with the author! Weird!

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

I know a couple in which the husband says he's OK with his wife making out with and/or sexing women, but not men. I wonder if this is a typical arrangement for open relationships?

H.E. Ladypants

@I'm Right on Top of that, Rose Not the ones, I know, no. The ones I know wherein this happens typically tend to be of the type where the dude finds ladies together to be hot or doesn't think of lesbianism as "real sex." (Soooo... kinda creepy and a bit sexist.) I can think of an excellent exception to this rule but yeah.

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

@H.E. Ladypants Maybe he finds it less threatening? I don't know. I've known ladies who have swooped in on other ladies in hetero relationships, right under the unsuspecting dudes' noses. (Not that I'm OK with such a thing, just noting that women can run off with women.)

Megasus

@I'm Right on Top of that, Rose Finding ladies "less threatening" is also pretty sexist.

Ham Snadwich

@I'm Right on Top of that, Rose - I know a couple like that (although they're both bi, so it's a little different). Extracurricular activities are same-sex only unless they're both present.

bloodorange

@I'm Right on Top of that, Rose Yes, I've seen this referred to as the "One-Penis Rule." It's sexist and gross.

ElizabethinCA

I named a little orphaned kitten "Cuckoo" bc when I put him in with some other kittens I was fostering he was very demanding and cried so much louder than the other kittens. Cuckoos treat other birds like gestational carriers almost - they lay their eggs in other birds' nests. Somehow the little cuckoo hatches a day before the other chicks and has just enough of a size advantage to monopolize the parent bird's attention and feeding.
I don't really have a comment on the article other than to show where my mind wandered while reading about this lady's cheating on her husband.

TARDIStime

@ElizabethinCA
Well clearly that says everything that needs to be said about how captivating she was...

Ham Snadwich

@ElizabethinCA - Here's a pic of a cuckoo chick that's grown up in a reed warbler's nest.

idealogicRoom

This was absolute miserable to read. She sounds like a horrible, manipulative person and her husband sounds like a soft, desperate dude.

"Because of this, my husband has at times fretted that I might leave him. "
Isn't it the goal of both partners to make sure the other person never feels like this, not too instigate these kinds of feelings?

Also, does anyone here actually feel like this :
"Some married friends of mine have a no-tell policy. They are ostensibly monogamous but have an “if you cheat, please don’t tell me” rule. "
If my girlfriend ever cheated on me, didn't tell me, and I found out, I would be her sworn enemy for life.

Finally, if this is her website:
http://adacalhoun.wordpress.com/
I personally would hesitate to call her much of a looker.

tom
tom

her husband probably wants her to have sex with another man and she wants also, i have progressed through this from being possessive to having my wife fuck other men and licking her after and during

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