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Tuesday, September 18, 2012

250

Jim Behrle Wants to Know

1. What is an acceptable amount of checking out your boobs? When we're talking to you. Or butt? Like a totally harmless, just talking to you and checking you out kind of way. How many Mississippis (1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, etc.) separate a pleasant amount of being checked out and an uncomfortable, not-okay amount of being checked out? Or should we just never check you out?

Haha. Isn't it generally frowned upon to be caught looking at boobs at all? I could get in hot water here, but a surreptitious VERY, very quick (like micro-Mississippi, like Mis-) usually won't provoke anger. That's not to say people should not be checked out. Just not when we can tell that we're being checked out. Actually I worry I'm making it worse by answering this question as if there's anything even approaching a universal answer. Some people like the attention, some people hate it. Being checked out, quickly, when the person's trying to be cool about it, though, isn't generally despised? And I imagine it goes both ways. Women checking out men, etc. But it can feel aggressive and uncomfortable to have someone just, Mississippi, staring, Mississippi, at your body.

2. There is an employee lady at a Starbucks I think is cute. But she has a "Love is Pain" tattoo. Do you think she means love is pain in like a pincers way? Or that love is just enormously unpleasant in her experience?

Hm. Probably the second. I'm not sure I'm so crazy about this lady, though. I will need more info about font, placement, color, etc. ("Comic sans, forehead, green" — okay, I love her!) No, but who knows. Maybe she got it when she was really young. Tattoos provide an interesting (and fair/unfair?) way to judge people. 

3. My friend didn't tell me she was pregnant. She instead wanted to just show up at a thing pregnant and surprise me? What is up with that? I hate surprises.

She got you! Jimmm. I dunno, maybe showing up at the thing being pregnant was the way of telling you? Did you ever have a thing for this person? Is that why it was surprising? Or was she really pregnant (like past six months), and it was like, "why didn't I know this sooner," and you felt out of the loop? Or was it like "suddenly my friend has become a different thing altogether" as if Pregnant somehow became her defining characteristic and you no longer feel able to communicate with her the way you used to?

Wait I realize I'm not answering any of your questions so far.

4. Why do women always say "Sense of Humor" is the thing they most look for in men? But then you end up wanting someone who doesn't just take out the garbage, but "wants to take out the garbage." No one wants to take out the garbage. I mean, they'll do it. But no one wants to do it. Discuss.

Haha. This seems sort of reductive. I think "sense of humor" means "can make me laugh." And it's not that women want you to want to take out the trash, it's that we want you to love and adore us so much that the thought of not holding up even one tiny part of the bargain — for instance, taking out the garbage — is inconceivable to you, because you would never do anything to jeopardize this glorious and transcendentally fulfilling part of your life — your relationship with us. Many layers of unrealistic-nesses going on there, though, and I don't really think this is that common a problem?

Jim, what else? Was this disappointing?

Jim Behrle lives in Brooklyn and has lots of questions.

250 Comments / Post A Comment

Emby

Jimbo! C'mon, man.

bananab0at

Checking out boobs: can't guys figure out a way to do this not at the exact moment we're trying to make eye contact with them? People at work never look at each other's boobs, and I think that's because looking at someone's boobs at length is like saying 'your dumb words matter less than my dick'.

Sense of humor: 9 times out of 10 the dude means 'stuff my buddies laugh at out of obligation'. We do not think your Kenny Powers impressions are more dazzling than you caring about us in a real way. When we say a sense of humor is important, we're talking about recognizing what is funny and bringing funny to the equation, aka making life tolerable. Be objective about whether or not what you call your sense of humor is doing that job for a lady.

laurel

@bananab0at: Right. Do not be looking at my boobs when you're supposed to be chatting with me. Definitely do not be looking at my ass when you're supposed to be chatting with me.

bananab0at

@laurel Yes. Please don't look at me with "I'd like to jizz on those" eyes when I'm trying to communicate with you. It's why I bother to pack my boobs away before I leave the house, because I'm trying to get things done out here in the world.

MoxyCrimeFighter

@bananab0at And if you're making eye contact with an expression that says, "I'd like to jizz on those eyes," please go far, far away.

NeverOddOrEven

@laurel
Yes. So with all of you. "Checking out" someone is reserved for someone you see in passing, and do not know.
If you know me, or are about to through conversation, NO OOGLING. The only time it's acceptable during an interaction is if that interaction is explicitly sexy in nature.

bananab0at

@NeverOddOrEven Yeah - I don't get why that needs to be said explicitly. Interacting with people on a predatory level - esp those that are generally smaller and/or weaker than you - is mostly a no no in society.

Queen of Pickles

@bananab0at I just read "I'd like to jizz on those eyes", misplacing the quotation marks, and my brain went :0

bananab0at

@Queen of Pickles haha yeah, my eyes are super fuckable. it's been a lifelong struggle.

hollysh

@laurel uh-huh. when i'm chatting with someone and i notice their eyes wander south, i just follow with my head until it's in their direct line of vision and give them a questioning look. it usually works pretty well. my boss gave me the elevator eyes the other day (hospitality work, ugh) so I just gave them right back. everyone make everyone else uncomfortable!

MoonBat

@hollysh
Everyone make everyone else uncomfortable! I love this!

fabel

Okay, there shouldn't be any "mississippis" when checking out another person. That is already too long.

Personally, I never mind a sort of absentminded once-over. That is the least creepy/offensive/whatever thing to me. When I see the eyes move, but it's in an "oh, look, a body" way. Not a "yea-UH, gimme that body" way.

werewolfbarmitzvah

@fabel Four whole syllables! The appropriate time to stop is after the first syllable of the first Mississippi!

laurel

Boobs, like dim stars, are often best seen when not looking directly at them.

Bittersweet

@laurel That's the only way you can see mine anyway. Ghost boobs.

laurel

@Bittersweet: Mammier Objects.

Blackwatch Plaid

@laurel Looking at cleavage is like looking at the sun. You don't stare at it, it's too risky. You get a sense of it then you look away.

Blackwatch Plaid

@glittercock (Not that I actually take this advice, of course. Ladies tend to be more receptive to the ogles of other ladies, though.)

deepomega

Jim, I think the rule of thumb is, don't ogle anyone longer than you would spend looking at their open gmail while they're sitting right there. You can glance! But if you're, like, actively looking through the subject headings it's gonna get weird.

Jim do you want me to compare more things to gmail for you

JadedStone

@deepomega I dunno about Jim, but I sure do.

Edith Zimmerman

@deepomega I do too.

deepomega

@JadedStone @Edith Zimmerman @Jim too I guess.

2. You can't draw conclusions about someone from their tattoos any more than you can draw conclusions from what spam emails they receive. (In their gmail.) Like, who knows how drunk/confused/young they were when they got that tattoo/signed up for that CB2 newsletter! And it is a hassle and expensive to get a tattoo removed/unsubscribe from spam.

Reginal T. Squirge

deepomega dropping science.

meetapossum

@deepomega I don't know if that's true. When I was at a waterpark earlier this year, I saw a girl with a lower back tattoo with diamonds surrounding the word "Classy" in cursive print, and I'm pretty sure she didn't have any regrets.

Judith Slutler

@deepomega gmail: the key to all mythologies

wee_ramekin

@deepomega I think that tattoos could be likened to a person's G-mail theme. So if, for example, they have Tea House Fox (cough i do cough) that tells you one thing; if they have a Hello Kitty theme, another.

deepomega

@wee_ramekin No way, a gmail theme is more like their clothes, from which you can learn SOMETHING but not a LOT

wee_ramekin

@deepomega What about the folks who REFUSE to update their names in G-mail, so every time they e-mail, it shows up as coming from their address instead of coming from First Name, Last Name? WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU (besides the fact that those people annoy me to no end)?

solaria

@wee_ramekin Much love to Tea House Fox.

Genghis Khat

@wee_ramekin I have tea house fox too! Yay I have something in common with an awesome famous 'pinner!

wee_ramekin

@Genghis Khat ♪♫♪We are the woooorld...♪♫♪

PS - This is the best thing I've ever read about lil' THF (Tea House Fox).

tootsky

@meetapossum ...Yet.

JadedStone

You can ogle my bosoms as much as you want, insofar as I am not staring at your face as you do it.

And if I do catch you, have the decency to avert thy gaze to my eyes. You may return to bosoms once I look away.

Megasus

I agree with the "check someone out but don't look like you're checking someone out" strategy. Also, did JoshIsLikeGermany submit question #2?

jule_b_sorry

Checking out: 2 answers:

1) Spend as long as you would spend checking out a man wearing an interesting pair of socks and a cool tie (you wouldn't give him the obvious "elevator eyes", would you?)

2) Women are not a hive mind. Stop asking one woman a question as if it's appropriate for her to answer for all women. Women are people, with different thoughts and opinions and feelings. Just treat us like people by finding out about those thoughts, opinions and feelings and acting accordingly (see also questions like "what do women want?" and "why do women always do that?").

deepomega

@jule_b_sorry This is terrible advice because I definitely elevator-eyes dudes all the time. Especially if their shoes are awesome.

Leanne

@deepomega Agreed. If he has awesome shoes, I want to know him. In the Biblical sense.

SarahP

@jule_b_sorry Also if someone has a cool tie I generally smile--first at it, then at him, like I'm saying "Cool tie! Dude, you have good taste in ties" with my eyes. If a dude were to do that sort of look with breasts, yikes.

jule_b_sorry

@deepomega I was relying on the observed tendency of straight men to avoid doing anything, ANYTHING, that might make it seem like they were checking out a dude. THE HORROR. Myself, I give saucy eyes to anyone in a pair of argyles.

jule_b_sorry

@SarahP Those guys thought you were actually admiring their pecs, and then giving them the "hey sexy pecs, meet me in the bathroom in ten" look. After your conversation ended, they eagerly hung around the nearest bathroom for hours, building origami sculptures out of paper towels to pass the time and slowly wondering how it all went so terribly wrong.

sceps yarx

@deepomega I elevator eye dudes constantly. And creeper stare. And if I get caught, I just make eye contact and give a big friendly smile. I feel very comfortable doing this because I am a cute girl, and they should be so lucky! Also I don't mind it when dudes check me out, as long as they don't say anything creepy or get in my grill. As I think of it, "lookin's free, but talking will cost you." But that's also my perspective as a girl with a great butt and not so much rack...the eye contact thing is less of an issue with the back of you.

deepomega

@jule_b_sorry I am 100% a straight dude, but I like shoes. SORRY.

laurel

@jule_b_sorry: Your scenario is a total trap. What choice do I have but to give him elevator eyes* if he's got both a cool tie and interesting socks?!

*where "elevator eyes" means sliding one's gaze up and down.

jule_b_sorry

@deepomega AS YOU SHOULD BE. APOLOGY NOT ACCEPTED.

SarahP

@jule_b_sorry I am always the one who got away.

Faintly Macabre

@sceps yarx I have a rather religious friend who avoids pants and favors long coats when she's in the city just because she doesn't want people to check out her ass/legs. I guess it's okay in the suburbs?

tee
tee

@SarahP I don't think I've ever seen a cool tie? Where are these cool ties and where are the cool guys that wear them? Can anyone link me to some good ties?

tee
tee

@Brunhilde Yeah, okay, it's pretty cool.

EpWs

@SarahP "Cool breasts! Lady, you have good taste in breasts."

Bittersweet

@The Everpresent Wordsnatcher "Thanks, I grew them myself."

MoxyCrimeFighter

Re: sense of humor - I think it's important to note that when ladies (or at least when I, a lady) say we want someone with a sense of humor, it's not only thinking things are funny, thinking the same things are funny, and being able to make us laugh, but also thinking we're funny! Ladies are funny! We have jokes! It's nice when a guy acknowledges that. It's a total dealbreaker when a guy cracks jokes and expects me to laugh but doesn't seem to be entertained by me at all.

OhMarie

@MoxyCrimeFighter Yes, I think that having the same sense of humor is actually the most important--thinking the same things are funny. And just thinking that being funny is important. I could never go out with a really serious dude.

NeverOddOrEven

@OhMarie
Yea, I think a lot of people are confused by that because they think, "Who doesn't have a sense of humor?"
Consider yourself lucky if you don't know that the answer is "too many people."

Lily Rowan

@MoxyCrimeFighter Yeah, I mostly mean "thinks I'm funny" when I say "good sense of humor." But because of that very thing, usually I actually say "thinks I'm funny"!

finguns

@MoxyCrimeFighter I also think "sense of humor" is shorthand for "sense of perspective." I don't even care if you make me laugh out loud, just appreciate that the world is a random and weird place and don't take everything so f-ing seriously. (Also and as importantly, sense of humor = ability to laugh at yourself, and not just after you cracked wise.)

melis

HOW DO I GET JIM BEHRLE TO LOVE ME

Emby

@melis Possess breasts, a trite tattoo, get pregnant, be prepared to laugh your fucking ass off, and always ALWAYS take out the garbage.

melis

@Emby I give up I'm gonna go haunt an iceberg widow instead

Emby

@melis Those words are unrelated. But then, that is your thing, ghost.

melis

REALLY you can't imagine a scenario wherein a forlorn outcropping of coral reef, separated from its fellows, is impressed into an early marriage with a silent, lumbering iceberg that slowly melts and is left more vulnerable than ever before?? WHY DO YOU THINK WE'RE SO WORRIED ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING WE'RE GONNA END UP WITH A LOT OF SINGLE CORAL REEFS IT'S A SERIOUS PROBLEM KATIE ROIPHE IS WORRIED ABOUT IT DUDE

SarahP

@Emby But IF you get pregnant, tell Jim right away.

Emby

@SarahP "Jim, I know you're still inside me, but I really think I'm pregnant with your baby. Right at this moment. Right now. Just thought you should know. Didn't want to surprise you at a thing."

bitzyboozer

@melis I'm picturing an iceberg widow being like a grass widow, but stabbier. Is that right?

wee_ramekin

@Emby Great. There's ice tea all over my monitor now. Thanks for that.

Jim Behrle@twitter

@melis you probably just email me

Ophelia

Question 1: 42
Question 2: She has been waiting her whole life for you to ask her out, and when you do, she will get laser tattoo removal
Question 3: It's your baby
Question 4: You need to tell more dead baby jokes, and THEN take out the trash.

yrouttasight

@Ophelia I like your ideas, and would like subscribe your newsletter.

Ophelia

@yrouttasight It's only published annually at this point, but I'll keep you posted.

whizz_dumb

To concur with some of the above, I feel like I've been caught in a micro-Mississippi and almost felt bad but didn't really because "was that subconscious checking-out-boobs or were my eyes just glancing past coincidentally?" It was so quick even I wasn't sure. If it was any longer than Missi- I would've felt like a creep. That said, checking out butts without the person noticing is easy and fairly commonplace for everyone right? Then there's being caught by a third person watching you stare at someone else's butt, that's sort-of a different creepiness guilt. Basically, don't get caught, as my high school English teacher would say at the end of every Friday class.

stuffisthings

@whizz_dumb I always wonder about the protocol for when you're walking down the street behind someone. Sometimes I'll overtake them just because staring at a stranger's ass for five blocks is a bit much but I don't know where else to look.

Reginal T. Squirge

@stuffisthings

I basically did that just this morning. But her skirt was see-through and she was wearing a thong! I only have so much strength!

Non-anonymous

@Reginal T. Squirge Sometimes I hurry up to pass a woman because I'm imagining her thinking "I'll bet that guy behind me is staring at my butt, what a creep" and I want to show her "See, okay, I might have looked, but if I was a real creep I would have slowed down to keep staring!"

whizz_dumb

@Reginal T. Squirge @Non-anonymous I did/had happen to me the exact combination of your two comments. When I got just past her, I glanced at her face and she gave me a very knowing/devious side-smile that said, "you were just looking at my thonged butt through my skirt". I think she surpassed my creepiness.

Reginal T. Squirge

CREEP-OFF! I will out-creep anyone, any day of the week. All challenges accepted!

redheaded&crazy

@Reginal T. Squirge did you try to take a picture up the skirt of the see through thong wearing girl? because I overheard a car salesman bragging about doing just that in a show room once.

OUT CREEP THAT BUSTER.

redheaded&crazy

@redheaded&crazie ugh that guy was the worst

wee_ramekin

@all

You guys. I feel like this comment thread is the perfect opportunity to unleash this little Martin Freeman gem on the world (the second and last parts especially). God I love him unconditionally.

queenofbithynia

think "sense of humor" means "can make me laugh

NO NO NO NO NO it means "laughs at MY jokes." Me, mine, the lady's. Men always think it means the first thing and they are WRONG and it makes them TEDIOUS.

jule_b_sorry

@queenofbithynia DING DING DING DING we have a WINNAH.

Jinxie

@queenofbithynia YES! Having a sense of humor just means you're not Mr. SeriousFace all the damn time and you can crack wise but also laugh at my jokes. I don't want to date a stand up comedian, you know?

Judith Slutler

@queenofbithynia Not only that, but can laugh at HIMSELF. I always find so many otherwise laid-back and fun dudes can't deal with situations in which they're not being taken 100% dead seriously.

professionalmess

@queenofbithynia Yes! A million times yes! My boyfriend never gets my jokes and it's awful.

baked bean

@Jinxie God dating a stand-up comedian would suck! I think most people agree on that.

Jinxie

@baked bean Even if they're not always "on", I'd always be afraid of becoming a story or joke in their act. If my exes are going to make fun of me, I'd rather they didn't have a big audience.

Edith Zimmerman

@queenofbithynia Beg to differ!

Reginal T. Squirge

Didn't we all already figure out this "how long can I stare" shit in junior high?

whizz_dumb

@Reginal T. Squirge I don't know, I notice grown dudes just stare brazenly not caring what others think or how it makes people feel every so often and I try to give them a "what the fuck man!?" face. (Am I making contrary comments to yours a lot lately? I'll stop.)

Reginal T. Squirge

Don't get me wrong, though. I fux with Jim Behrle.

Reginal T. Squirge

Also, my "didn't we all" was in reference to those of us that are not complete juiceboxes. I didn't mean to include all people nor all men, for that matter.

Nothing wrong with disagreement! We're cool!

stuffisthings

@whizz_dumb Oh shit, all this time I thought that was your "Hey those ARE nice tits!" face.

whizz_dumb

@Reginal T. Squirge Ohhh "we all" as in the somewhat-civilized? I gotchya, let's hug.

beecaveroad

@Reginal T. Squirge A guy in the elevator yesterday spent ten floors just lookin' at me and then said "Goodnight, beautiful" when I got out. That... was too much. And he definitely wasn't in junior high.

laurel

@margaret_r: Oh, there is special specific elevator etiquette and that is not it. Do not be creepin' on ladies in small confined spaces, dudes. That is shudder material right there.

theotherginger

@laurel I know! maybe, instead of the "safety info" my univ. library has, we could post more helpful tips? (thankfully that has never happened to me. but some dudes are creepy, and surely some of them go to my school)

Jim Behrle@twitter

@Reginal T. Squirge I went to an all boy high school

muddgirl

A straight man may stare at a woman's breast/ass for exactly as long as he'd look at another's man's groin. Sorry, it is the law.

noReally

Tattooed barista is taking the attention-seeking device to nosebleed heights. Avoid that girl until she grows up and gets it lasered off.

omgkitties

@noReally Or avoid that girl until she grows up and stops defining herself by that tattoo. Which may have happened, seeing as how they're (mostly) permanent things and our life stages are not.
-says the not at all too sensitive girl with a Bukowski tattoo (shut up, NO SHAME!) (a little?) (...)

Princess Gigglyfart

@omgkitties could be worse:
*has a Green Day tattoo.

soul toast

@Princess Gigglyfart I have a My Little Pony tattoo. Jealous?

ThisLittlePiggy

RE: Garbage.

Correct, no one wants to take it out.

But you're not allowed to say THIS:

"Do you want me to take out the garbage?"

Because when you ask that to your spouse/sexy buddy/whatever, you're basically permitting them two possible responses:

1. Look like an asshole for saying, "yeah, I DO want you to take out the garbage, sucker!"
2. Be a martyr/nice person and say, "no, it's fine, I'll do it," thus sticking them with the garbage. Ha.

Saying, "do you want me to take out the garbage?" is like saying
"Do you want me to buy you a birthday present?"
"Uh, you don't have to, I guess..."
It's like an "are you still beating your wife?" question for the berelationshipped.

If you MUST ask, then what you're probably sensing is that, yup, it's your turn to take out the garbage. And in that case, you already know that you SHOULD take out the garbage. But by asking "do you want me to take out the garbage?" you are playing a sneaky verbal trick on your spouse/buddy, you're blackmailing them juuuust a little bit, because, yeah, you took out the trash BECAUSE THEY ASKED YOU TO.

NEVER ASK ANYONE IF THEY WANT YOU TO TAKE OUT THE TRASH.

Blushingflwr

@ThisLittlePiggy What if you are at the home of someone you are close with (friends or special friends, either) and you are leaving and they have trash that they were going to take out and you are offering as a gesture of goodwill, because it is never your turn to take out the trash in someone else's house?

(I mean, I see your point, but I think there are exceptions, including when you know it is the other person's turn but they are for some reason experiencing stress about it)

Kristen

@ThisLittlePiggy I know! SO crazy. If the garbage needs to be taken out, take it out! Why on earth did feelings get involved?

fondue with cheddar

@ThisLittlePiggy If someone asked me, "Do you want me to take out the garbage?" I would respond, "Please, if you don't mind."

Possible responses:
1. "Sure, I don't mind," because they genuinely don't mind.
2. "Sure, I don't mind," not because they want to but because I blackmailed them right back.
3. "Yes, I do mind," to which I would say, "Then why the hell did you ask?" and then they're undeniably the asshole.

jule_b_sorry

@ThisLittlePiggy My reply to this is, "Do you WANT me to want you to take out the garbage?"

And then start sobbing "I don't know what you want from me! I try so hard to love you, but you make it so complicated!"

Works every time.

jule_b_sorry

@jule_b_sorry (my real-life answer to this is, "I'm not in charge of the garbage, why ask me?" It's not rocket science to see when the trash is full, and to take it out if you're also a member of that household. No one is ever going to say, "Oh, thanks for asking! Actually, I'm saving that garbage for later.")

fondue with cheddar

@jule_b_sorry Actually...I think that's the best answer.

laurel

@Kristen: I want you to know that even though the counter only went up by one, I clicked the thumbs up on your comment a bunch.

Let's not let the garbage get so loaded.

HeyThatsMyBike

@a whole thing of candy beans (formerly jen325) Right. I only ask this kind of question framed in this way when I genuinely don't care who does what, and it almost always comes in a pair so that I can make YOU choose which one you will do (Do you want me to take the dog out to poop or do you want me to clean up the kitchen?).
If I don't want to take out the garbage but want you to, I will say "Do you mind taking out the garbage?" Not that tough!

Megasus

@ThisLittlePiggy NEVER ASK ANYONE TO DO ANY CHORES WHATSOEVER IF IT IS YOUR OWN GODDAMN FUCKING HOME.
I have a complex about this, thanks 6 year relationship where he NEVER DID A SINGLE CHORE.

Mrs. PotatoHead

@ThisLittlePiggy @ Megano! Yessssss.... I love you!! I feel like now it becomes MY chore if I have to be the one to decide whether or not you're going to take the trash out. Just dooooo it!

beecaveroad

@Mrs. PotatoHead YESSS. I just moved in with my boyfriend and we had to have a talk where I had to explain that if I ended up feeling like I was In Charge of chores I would end up feeling like a mom. And I do not want that even a little. Like, if we're equally in charge of our living space, he should be as capable as I am of deciding when chores need to get done (minus things where we have differing levels of appropriate cleanliness).

laurel

@margaret_r: Re differing tolerances for cleanliness, it seems like the garbage should be the least subjective chore of all. Is it full? Take it out. Does it smell? Take it out. Is it attracting wildlife? Take it out.

KatPruska

@ThisLittlePiggy Home truths!!

Seriously, I had a little light bulb moment last night that should have happened years ago, but I'm selfish, so whatever. Feeling chuffed and generous because I always offer to scoop the cat litter - even though I know he's going to turn me down - is not actually generous. Scooping the litter while he was walking the dog and not mentioning it is the way to approach it. You know, occasionally. I do almost everything else around here, so he in stereotypical fashion gets the ickiest chores: garbage, kitty boxes, and bathroom, and quite frankly, I've been picking up the bathroom slack for months now.

So +1 maturity point for me!

Megasus

@margaret_r Sadly I had this conversation about a billion times with the ex to no effect. But I wish you and your boyfriend well with this!

beecaveroad

@laurel Oh, definitely. That one is easy, no excuses if you ignore it or act befuddled. I was thinking about things like bathrooms, where one person's eh, maybe a little grungy? is another person's NO WAY is my body touching that.

swirrlygrrl

@margaret_r My probs is the usually lovely live-in love really does have just vastly different standards of cleanliness that he made no effort to hide when we started dating. Like, NEVER cleaned his shower in years of living in that apartment, hoarder-style volume of stuff in all living spaces, changed sheets seasonally, etc. We spent a lot of time at my place, obviously, and if I had been rational and not madly in love with him, this would (maybe even should) have been a dealbreaker.

Seven years later, he's pitching in more without continual reminders, but really just can't intellectually get the importance of cleanliness anywhere close to my standards (which aren't crazy, I promise!) He is also starting to understand the emotional cost of my feeling angry and resentful about the work differential and me being designated the arbiter of basic cleanliness, and the shame and loss of freedom I feel at having a house I will not let guests into.

But separate homes...I think that really might have been the solution, if we could afford to live next door to each other.

insouciantlover

@jule_b_sorry "I think we could actually fit a little more on top? I think the odor will only get more unique in the next couple days. Let's see what happens."

fondue with cheddar

@swirrlygrrl My ex boyfriend and I had a similar problem, only it was all mixed up. I was the cluttery person (not to hoarder levels) and he was the filthy person. He would blame his crumbs on the floor or failure to throw out empty soda bottles on me, because if it weren't for all the clutter he would care more about cleaning up after himself.

Megasus

@a whole thing of candy beans (formerly jen325) OMG MY EX DID THIS TOO. (Even tho I'm not THAT CLUTTERY). He is so lucky I never punched him in the nards.

fondue with cheddar

@Megano! Ugh, it's horrible, isn't it? I wasn't that cluttery, either. I just had a very small apartment. I'm so glad they're both our EXES. My current guy is sometimes bad about making a mess, but at least he recognizes it and understand what reasonable cleanliness is.

Blushingflwr

1. Entirely dependent on context. Where am I? What am I wearing? If I'm at Starbucks and we run into each other, then you probably shouldn't be checking out my boobs while we are talking to each other, but if you are behind me in line and checking out my ass and I don't notice, then I don't really care, but other people may find you creepy. If I am all kitted out for a kink event and it's tits ahoy because of my outfit, then sure, you can stare at them, but again, not whilst we are talking, because my eyes are up here (but I am crap at eye contact, so I may not notice).
But it really depends on the woman and the circumstance and how much you make her feel like an object instead of a person (without negotiating first).

2. The only way to find out the meaning to someone's tattoo is to ask.

3. I have an epic story about this that involves people on both sides having different expectations of how communication should work, but it is not mine to tell. Suffice it to say I learned that some people will keep things "secret" because they want to tell someone in person, since over the phone isn't "special" enough.

4. Because a good sense of humor will make any chore, including taking out the garbage, more bearable.

Raptor41d

@Blushingflwr Regarding #3-- I've had this happen twice to me by the same couple. The second time I just skipped the event. It really is a different expectations thing. Just thinking about it makes me annoyed all over again.

iknowright

When the garbage is full and has smelly foodstuff in it....I do want to take it out. I mean, I don't think taking out the trash is fun, but I do want to do it because the end result (clean-smelling kitchen, no fruit flies, not having to clean gross food off the lid from trying to close it while full, having space in there for new trash, etc.) is desirable. Everyone gets to be lazy about shit once in awhile, but laziness that makes your life (or the PERSON YOU'RE LIVING WITH'S LIFE, HELLO) worse/grosser/stinkier isn't really acceptable to me. Neither is it cool if one person has taken out the trash the last 3 times and then has to ask the person they're living with to do it, and then they say they will but don't, so that person then has to ask again or just do it themseleves, and they're not allowed to be grumpy about it because hey, what's the big deal anyway, why are you always on my case, calm down, it's just a bag of trash! I don't smell anything, smells fine to me, you're just looking for things to be mad about. Geez, maybe I act like a child because you keep treating me like one, you ever think of that? Maybe your standard of cleanliness is just like, way higher than a normal person, in fact I sort of think you're a control freak and honestly, a little pee on the seat isn't going to kill you, if you hate it so much you clean it up, because it doesn't bother me so why should I do it? Oh, just to keep you happy? Well what about MY happiness? How about I'll vacuum the living room for you if you give me a blowjob, that's a fair trade, right? Then we both get what we want.

Ummm, that might have gotten away from me a little bit there. In sum, though: Most of us just want a relationship that feels like a partnership, without gaslighting or disrespect, and being with another person requires give and take. If that's not something you are capable of offering through both good/fun and bad/boring times, perhaps you should not be with that person (or any person at all in a traditional way? I for one think living around the corner from a significant other sounds promising).

swirrlygrrl

@iknowright I am scared to admit how familiar that ENTIRE paragraph is.

Queen of Pickles

@iknowright
Dishes, garbage, money. Differences in opinion cause SO MANY ISSUES.

fondue with cheddar

The key word when looking at boobs is glance.

dtowngirl

@a whole thing of candy beans (formerly jen325)
Amazing how that's lost on so many. A guy I used to work with would stare at my boobs and then wink at me.

insouciantlover

@dtowngirl I literally jumped back in my chair after reading that, as if a spider had suddenly dropped down.

dtowngirl

@insouciantlover Yeah, it was really horrible. But not as horrible as the time he silently walked up behind me while I was sitting at my desk and put his hands on my shoulders, like he was going to give me a massage. I literally screamed and fell out of my chair. And then told HR. It stopped after that, thankfully.

fondue with cheddar

@dtowngirl "Heyyy coworker"

fondue with cheddar

@dtowngirl All kidding aside, that's pretty disturbing and I'm glad he backed off.

baklava!

I occasionally walk away from conversations with ladies and realize I know that the pattern on their bra *was* little red paisleys, not hearts, even though I didn't notice I was looking. When am I going to get slapped already! Lady creep.

meetapossum

@baklava! I have a tendency to stare off into space, and sometimes when I finally focus my eyes, I realize I have been staring inappropriately at someone. I feel you.

muddgirl

@meetapossum In my experience, most women will ask around about stare-off-into-space-guy to figure out if he's creepin' or not. BUT if your staring-off-into-space happens to land on women's chests but not men's chests, then you're an unconscious creeper. Sorry.

meetapossum

@muddgirl I'm a lady, and my inappropriate staring knows no gender! It can be chest, crotches, or just right at someone's face. I try to make sure I'm looking at the ground when I zone out, but sometimes I forget.

muddgirl

@meetapossum You're probably OK then. Well, if being known as "that girl who's always staring off into space" is OK.

Random anecdote: When I was a kid, and someone asked my mom a question that she needed to think about, she'd always turn and stare at me! Even if I wasn't in her direct field of vision! It was so strange and we could never figure out why.

frigwiggin

@meetapossum Oh my god, I do this all the time. Space out, come to, realize my eyes are pointed at someone's boobs or crotch. WHY DO YOU BETRAY ME, EYES???

meetapossum

@frigwiggin Supposedly my eyes also get really wide when I do this. (To the delight of my friends. They feel normal to me.) So it seems I probably also look like a crazy person.

Elsajeni

@muddgirl When someone asks me a question I need to think about, I always check my watch. I guess I think it might say something useful?

celeec4@twitter

@meetapossum I hear you, lady. Sometimes, I'm sure the only thing keeping me from getting slapped with creeper is being female and being known for being kind of a spaz. Too many times have I spaced and come to, only to realize that I've been staring off in the direction of a t-shirt design or collar edge. *facepalms*

Citizen Cunt

1. If you have to ask, then you're probably a dickhead
4. It's not the garbage itself, it's the idea of what the garbage stands for.

puncturedbicycle

@Citizen Cunt
1. Yes.
4. I'd like to draw a line under the "what do women want"-style questions. We're people, and like other people, we're all different. In the case of taking out the garbage, contribute to the upkeep of your environment or find a partner who either doesn't mind looking after you or who has even lower standards.

Finally, maybe consider just being a stand-up adult human being and leaving behind the bewildered child routine? "How long can I look at your boobies?" "I don't like it when Mommy makes me clean up my toys." Sheesh.

skyslang

This is relevant to my interests! I JUST NOW called to make a laser tattoo removal appointment. Like, five minutes before reading this column. Anyone else had tattoo removal? Any tips? Any advice? I got a tramp stamp when I was 20; that was a million years before I had even heard of "tramp stamp", and a lower back tattoo felt edgy. "Edgy" ha, obviously this was early 90s.

sprayfaint

@skyslang No joke, tattoo removal was the most pleasant "medical" experience of my life. Just don't expect it to happen overnight (maybe I'm the only idiot that did). I had an itty bitty homemade tat for 15 years before I got that sucker burned off -- took three sessions and maybe $600 but it is GONE. The pain was very, very minimal and the doctor was super pleasant. Good for you for scheduling this when cold weather starts; I did mine in the spring-summer and having to keep it covered up was a drag.

skyslang

@sprayfaint Thanks! I've been thinking about removing it for years, so very excited this is about to happen.

gobblegirl

Personally, I do not mind if someone looks at parts of my body DISCREETLY. My body exists, take a look, move on. Don't be a creep - it may help to think of it as keeping your eyes moving. Don't let them stop on anything.
But if we are having a conversation, keep your eyes on my face or on the focus of our discussion. That's just basic manners and social skills that has nothing to do with gender. You wouldn't keep looking away towards something "better" if you were talking to a man, would you?

stuffisthings

If you find yourself creeping out women a lot, try using a shorter state name, like "Iowa" or "Utah."

adorable-eggplant

@RobotsNeedLove But not 'maaaaaaine'.

Inconceivable!

Look, if I can't tell you're checking me out, then I guess check away. But if we're actually conversing and you keep sneaking looks at my boobs, that convo is going to end quickly.

And if I'm saying that I want a dude with a sense humor, what I mean is a similar sense of humor to mine, so that we make each other laugh. I want to find him funny and I want him to find me funny, so that we can make terrible puns together.

laurel

@Inconceivable!: Sure, I want a guy who can make me laugh, but more important is a guy who thinks I'm funny.

pearlforrester

I hadn't really thought of it this way before, but the answer to the last question is absolutely the lens through which I perceive my relationship, including (but not limited to) chores, what movie we see, and how often we visit our respective sets of parents.

Jinxie

Ok, the thing about the trash: I currently live with 2 roommates and for the longest time, the person who instigated Operation: Take Trash Outside on Trash Night was me. If I was out of town, trash didn't go out. If I had plans on Trash Night and got home late, after the roommates had both gone to bed, trash didn't go out. They've gotten a little better lately, but 9 times out of 10, I'm still the person who has to say, "Ok, it's 10pm on Trash Night. Who's helping me with the recycling?" and it drives me batty.

Jinxie

@Jinxie Oh, and the point of my wee rant was just to say that, for me at least, wanting someone to WANT to take out the trash is really about that person taking responsibility for some of the housekeeping so I don't have to feel like Mean Mommy all the time.

alannaofdoom

@Jinxie - I'm feeling really good today because I'm generally the less-neat roommate, but last night I took out the trash AND the recycling. I think I will buy myself a cookie as a reward.

Judith Slutler

@alannaofdoom I wonder if less-neat roommates are just worse at rewarding themselves for cleaning? You definitely should get a cookie for that!

Ophelia

@Jinxie Yep. My husband happily contributes to household chores (we spend the same amount of time, but I'm more efficient, so I'd say I wind up doing about 60%). But if I didn't say, "OK, it's time to clean. Your tasks are dishes, vacuuming, and trash," then he wouldn't do them regularly.

That said, he's getting better, and we've sort of got a rhythm going with it all. I think in 10 years I'll be obsolete.

NeverOddOrEven

@Ophelia
I'm starting to realize that my husband is one of those people who just doesn't "see" messes.
He's really good about some chores, but it just makes it all the more frustrating when he makes and leaves a mess somewhere else.

Punk-assBookJockey

@Ophelia Yeah! I have recently tried to start showing my appreciation for the chores my husband does in ways other than thanking him as if he's done me a favor. I say like "The kitchen looks great!" or "smells better in here since you changed the cat litter" instead of "thanks for doing x" Because I need to stop thinking/feeling like the chores are my job and he's just temping for me.

Ham Snadwich

@NeverOddOrEven - I've been the cleanest person in a house full of slobs and in a three-way tie for messiest in a four person house. The cleanest person is always miserable.

Slutface

So...make sure to tell all men you are pregnant so they know not to consider you for sexytimes.

Okay, noted.

squeee

pregnancies are really touch and go pre-3-months, you can't be offended if a lady friend doesn't want to tell anyone until the bun baking is more settled.

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

Jim. Hi. As a lady who has breasts and also enjoys checking out the breasts of other ladies, I've got some insight here.

If we are chatting and I notice you checking out my rack, that's too long of a stare. You can cover it up by saying, "That's a cool necklace!" or something, but yeah, I'm going to think you don't give a shit about what I'm talking about and only care about The Tits.

Which, you know, I feel you on that, but it's not polite to stare. If you're at all interested in seeing those breasts without a shirt on, you have to listen to what she's saying.

Also? Taking out the garbage doesn't make you a hero; it makes you hygienic, which is also a sexy trait.

fondue with cheddar

@I'm Right on Top of that, Rose Guys show a lot of interest in what's written on my t-shirts. They start a conversation about it and then stare at my boobs under the pretext of trying to figure it out.

This is not the correct way to check out boobs.

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

@a whole thing of candy beans (formerly jen325) "Wow, is that white T-shirt 1,500 count, like sheets? I'm just trying to get a really good look at the fabric because, you know, touching it to test the softness would be awkward."

fondue with cheddar

@I'm Right on Top of that, Rose Yeah, I wouldn't want you to do anything awkward.

To be fair, I do have a lot of t-shirts with "stuff" on them, but you don't need to stare to make them out. Although sometimes part of the design is obscured because of the way it wraps around my boob, so there's that.

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

@a whole thing of candy beans (formerly jen325) Yeah, and my reference to necklaces is pretty much because I like to wear v-neck shirts with fun necklaces and sometimes that's what people really are looking at.

Sidenote: why the change to candy beans?

fondue with cheddar

@I'm Right on Top of that, Rose Anonymity. But I didn't realize there's already a @candybeans, so I'm going to have to change it again.

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

@a whole thing of candy beans (formerly jen325) What about "Anonymously, Jen."

fondue with cheddar

@I'm Right on Top of that, Rose Heh, I like the idea of a self-contradictory username, but not when I actually want to be more anonymous.

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

@a whole thing of candy beans (formerly jen325) Oh, oh! Remember the game that was supposed to determine your stripper name? Like, the name of your first pet and the street you grew up on? Maybe you can combo something like that. The color of your first car + your favorite cocktail, maybe.

fondue with cheddar

@I'm Right on Top of that, Rose Buttercup Lillian isn't so great as far as stripper names go. Anyway, I've got some ideas, I just haven't decided yet.

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

@a whole thing of candy beans (formerly jen325) Mine's Trixie. It's awesome. And my commenting name should be Brown Whiskey Ditch, which is sort of cool but also sounds unsanitary.

fondue with cheddar

@I'm Right on Top of that, Rose Brown Whiskey Ditch is awesome and definitely should be used for something! I don't know what my favorite cocktail is (I'm bad at favorites) so I can't even play that one.

smidge

I am going to write an essay about this someday, and maybe you weren't even talking about this, but, please don't hit on the cute girl who works at Starbucks. It gets real awkward when you are "customer service" nice to someone and they misinterpret it as "ask me out" nice.

omgkitties

@smidge I was thinking about this - is there a right way to ask out someone who works in customer service? I used to wait tables and now work with the public, so my two cents is:

write a quick note that expresses interest and has your contact info, get it to the person, and make haste (DO NOT ask or wait for them to read it in front of you, OMG). If they're interested, they'll get in touch. If not, and you continue to patronize their place of business, do some memory-wipe shit and pretend it never happened.

iknowright

@smidge YES THANK YOU. I worked somewhere where if we didn't get good tips on a given day, the back staff would be like, "Well you probably weren't nice enough!" And us front house (all women) would be like, "listen, you don't understand, there's a line where if you're not nice enough you're a bitch but if you're just a smidgen nicer than normal you get hit on a ton, we don't wanna deal with that, we want to move onto the next customer, men misread us constantly, etc.," and then everyone in the back (all dudes) would be like, "Wah wah, life's so hard when you're a young, attractive woman! I wish I could have your job, it sounds so easy!" Endless cycle of sexist bullshit.

The best response my co-worker ever gave a dude who, after coming into my store twice and only having her help him once, asked her out was, "I'm sorry, do you know me?" Him: "Uh...no?" Her: "Then that means I don't know you, either, so why would I want to go out with you?"

Look, it's fine to think a girl at a store is cute. But if she's interested, she will eventually show signs. But you have to make more than a couple of trips in and see if she ever starts up a conversation with you on her own. If she does, take it from there (cautiously!). If she's friendly and acts like she recognizes you but is still pretty much all business? SHE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOU AND IS AT WORK. Leave her alone.

Judith Slutler

@omgkitties EXACTLY. This is the consensus among all us current and former bartenders and baristas, it seems. Give the smoking hot waitstaff your number, consider it a pleasant surprise if s/he actually calls, otherwise just forget the whole thing and write it off as a fun little experiment.

smidge

@omgkitties It's a power difference, too. I mean, I may not like you, but if I turn you down does that mean you won't come into my place of business anymore? Have I just lost my store your money? Working at Starbucks, whatever, they'll be fine, but I worked at a place in kind of a small city and I didn't want to make it awkward for our customers.

NeverOddOrEven

@smidge
So true. Woe is the cocktail waitress.

purefog

@Emmanuelle Cunt On that topic, what ever happened finally with Taco
Girl?

wee_ramekin

@purefog

*DEEP BREATH* well, i asked her out via a note after finding out her name and chatting with her a couple of times and she never called so i stopped getting tacos there for about four months and then one day i went in and she was there and it wasn't awkward like i thought it would be and she remembered my special order and i didn't understaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand why she didn't call me because why would you remember that i don't take salsa with my tacos if you didn't loooooooooooooooooove meeeeeeeeeeee but then i ran into her at the vet and she was there with her really nice and pretty girlfriend and then i knew *EXHALE*

AHEM. That. That's what happened. Oh TSG, I still pine for thee. *wee sob*

redheaded&crazy

@wee_ramekin aw man i am so like this too. right now! i'm like "whyyyyy are you doing these things if you dont want to be in a relationship with meeeee? whyyyyyyyyyy????"

(the answer i'm guessing is: BECAUSE I CAN. whatever.)

wee_ramekin

@redheaded&crazie Well, also, to be fair to the TSG and everyone else on the planet, just because you remember my order does not actually mean that you love me. I just...man, I just have such a face-reddening crush on this girl (it has actually been years now) that it's inconceivable to my lizard-brain that she might not even really remember me. The rest of my brain, however, can thankfully recognize that just because I like her does not mean she has to like me back. (but i still loooooooooooooooove heeeeeeeeer *sob*)

redheaded&crazy

@wee_ramekin oh yes i realize that the point is having totally irrational responses to totally mundane things.

siiiiiiiiiiigh.

PistolPackinMama

@wee_ramekin Somehow, I feel like A Taco Girl (if not That Taco Girl) is in your future.

Kirsten Hey@twitter

Nobody wants to empty the bins or do the dishes or sweep the floors or clean the bathroom. But they need to be done, and they are not exclusively women's work. Just take your turn, dammit, without having to be asked or nagged, because you are an adult and a decent human being and you know it is not reasonable to leave all the chores to the other person.

winslow

@Kirsten Hey@twitter APPLAUSE.

redheaded&crazy

@Kirsten Hey@twitter STANDING OVATION.

LlamaLlama

Regarding the pregnancy thing, I once got into some minor friend drama over this. My friend was pregnant-- like 5 months along?-- and for some reason didn't tell our mutual friend who was living in another city that she was pregnant, like she wanted to surprise her. I didn't know about this because she was certainly "out" as pregnant to everyone else, and I guess I said something to the mutual friend that "ruined the surprise." And then they both got a little bit mad at me. Isn't that weird?

angelinha

@Lana @twitter This would make a great League of Ordinary Ladies comic!

tea tray in the sky.

@angelinha The last panel would just say "is that weird"

lindsayishere

All I can think of re: the tattoo is how I wish I'd worked at that Starbucks location in my bux days. All my managers were incredibly uptight about visible tats, to the point of once writing me up. Nothing I have is so dark and salacious as "Love is pain," which I read as "This is a coverup for some dude's name that I got on my 18th birthday when we knew we'd be together forever, and then." Avoid.

Ellie

I have a question! My roommate (a college student) saw, apparently, the MOST BEAUTIFUL GIRL IN THE WORLD in the student center yesterday. He says he was on the phone to his mom and actually dropped the phone when he saw her. He wants to come up with a perfect opening line for if he sees her again that will make her want to continue a conversation and get to know him better. I said there was no such magic line and that anything will work if she thinks he's cute (I think he's pretty good looking) and anything would be creepy if she doesn't, and my best suggestion was just to say hi or start talking to her about whatever presents itself in the moment. He is coming up with all kinds of weird, creepy supposed-to-be-funny shit and I'm like "Noooooo!" Any suggestions?

Judith Slutler

@Ellie How old is he? You know I can actually remember sitting there pondering the one correct thing I could say to guys in bars in order to make them like me, and I had to learn through painful experience that that doesn't work. My brother went through the same phase, and though I gave him a 15 minute lecture on why that doesn't work, he had to find out for himself.

Odds are he won't see her again anyway, but if so, just be prepared for him to come home crushed and to buy him a beer. Don't say "I told you so"...

OhMarie

@Ellie You are right and he is wrong? I'm sorry, that's not a suggestion.

winslow

@Ellie Maybe point out that the best outcome of him using a creepy-supposed-to-be-funny line is that she thinks he's cute enough to forgive him for doing it? Not to be blunt, but lines just smack of trying-too-hard lack of confidence plus the conviction that ladies aren't human beings who can just be talked to. Nobody likes to be approached all scrape-and-bow-ish like they're a fucking hyppogriff, geez.

Lily Rowan

@Ellie Just let him learn, man.

Megasus

@winslow Ok I would actually be down with dudes prostrating themselves before me, but I am probably in the minority.

NeverOddOrEven

@Ellie
You can't engineer a perfect opening. Life is not a romantic comedy.
He either finds himself in a position to speak to her like he would any other human being, or he "cold-calls" her. Either way his chances probably aren't good (at least they wouldn't be if it were me). He's just got to hope and pray they have mutual friends or meet at a party or something.

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

@NeverOddOrEven This is the best advice: speak to her like a human being. Beauty is subjective, and he risks becoming uglier if he treats her like a game to be won.

Ellie

He's 22. All of you are totally right, there is no magic line and best thing to hope for is that he runs into her in an actual social context. I just felt stymied because I actually consider myself quite good at hitting on people/flirting but I could not come up with one constructive piece of advice. I feel like one just instinctually knows what would be good to say in the moment.

wee_ramekin

@I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

@wee_ramekin I think I love you? I think I love you.

baked bean

@Ellie Yeah even if he just walks up to her out of nowhere it needs to be a normal conversation that assumes she's intelligent. Maybe just introduce himself? I feel like there's gotta be some context probably for there to be a good chance of it working. Maybe this is creepy, but if it's a small school there's a chance he'll see her more than once, or be able to sit/stand near her or something.

theotherginger

@baked bean yes, can people just be normal? And converse? because I would like that.

baked bean

@theotherginger Yeah, like, I am happy when a friendly stranger starts up a conversation with me, even if it's silly like the weather. Not hitting on me, but just friendly. Any gender or age.
But I am a pretty non-people person so doing so to other people scares. the. shit. out of me.

E
E

@Ellie There are two correct lines to use on a person you don't know. Line one is "Hey I wanted to say I like your (clothing, book or accessory only)." For INSTANCE, " I'm sorry to interrupt but are are you reading the new Jim Berhle? What did you think of it? I'm Steve by the way." "Excuse me, can I ask where you got that bookbag? I'm looking for something like that myself."

The other correct line is small talk about the situation. Basically bus/next passenger on the airplane lines. "Wow, this line is moving really slowly, isnt' it? How long have you been standing here? What were you going to order?"

That's it. You want to test the waters to see if A) That person is open to chatting right then and B) if they respond in a nice way and are the sort of pleasant person you want to step up to, "hey I have to go, but it was really nice to meet you. Would you like to get a coffee with me sometime?"

baked bean

@E Yes. This is the best advice.

Lily Rowan

Just last night, there was a lady at the next table who was telling her friends she's pregnant. Oh! They were so happy! But I never (tying threads together!) had a chance to check her out to see if she was visibly preggo or not.

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

@Lily Rowan But did you check out her boobs for two Mississippi counts?

Lily Rowan

@I'm Right on Top of that, Rose I totally would have! If I had remembered.

Inkling

@Ellie
Ask him to examine why he is being creepy (what, obligatory/accusatory/abductory/pedestally?) instead of being nice interesting or somewhat endearing.
Also, I must disagree with your assessment. Cute guys can get ugly real fast if the first thing they say to me has a modicum of disrespect in it, and the sillier-looking ones become magnetic mental havens when their opening treats me like a person.
Let us know how it goes.

PS I don't know why I am bottom-sent-commenting today, ALAS.

bitzyboozer

No shit, no one "wants to take out the trash." What that means is we'd prefer it if you'd just do it sometimes without having to be nagged/cajoled/bribed/etc.

snowmentality

@bitzyboozer Yes. It just means "I want you to freaking notice what needs to be done and do it on your own initiative sometimes, like an adult."

Queen of Pickles

@snowmentality
This.

theotherginger

@snowmentality I know! Real reason for break-up with long-past bf: he did not SEE things and I was not about to train him. Also he was cluttered and I am not, so life would have been about endless nagging. Which is no fun for anyone.

Melusina

Re "Good sense of humour" ... isn't it really just something people say because it's a little too embarrassing or personal to explain what one is really looking for?

laurel

@Melusina: Nope, not for me. Funny people bring me actual joy.

Queen of Pickles

@Melusina Unlike the commenters above, I don't say "good sense of humor", I say "can make me laugh" - because few people can make me laugh. I seem to make people laugh much more often than they make me laugh. And that usually means I'm a little bit bored.

But seriously, when a dude and I are making each other laugh just because we find each other delightful, and neither of us is trying to please/impress the other... that IS what I'm looking for. Can't think of anything sexier.

Sister Administrator

Wow, this really makes me think about what it must be like to have boobs. I mean, I have them, lil' AAAs. No one checks out my boobs, ever, I'm not exaggerating, there is nothing to check out.

This one time I was at a party and someone had a bra with very realistic boobs in it, nipples and everything, like for someone who has had a double masectomy. Which of course the boys were having a lot of fun wearing. I decided to put it on under my (somewhat tight) t-shirt, and wow. People I'd never met were showing up at the party. Boys. There were missisippis and just sort of generally more focused attention/conversation. It was such a different experience, off-putting actually, and though I do kinda wish I had some fabulous boobage, I think back to that experience and don't really know if I would want that all the time.

KatPruska

@Sister Administrator Empathy is amazing. I used to get super jealous of non-enormo-bosomed ladies, but honestly, since we're female, it's going to suck no matter what, thanks to the unwritten-but-constantly-enforced rule that we, as a society, love to both vigorously uphold AND collectively deny: Women can never ever win.

hollysh

@KatPruska ENDLESS LOSE-LOSE. You are either pinned as "the chick with huge tits" (thanks, idiot chef at work) or "the chick with the flat chest." it's all, "why are you mad? we're just complimenting your boobs?" when sexist, creepy shit is said or "you're just bitchy/jealous because you don't have any boobs". ugh. If I could build an invisibility shield in front of my chest to activate in the presence of creepers, I totally would.

nicolesnacks

@Sister Administrator Does anybody else remember the episode of "Smart Guy" where this same thing happened? The older sister wore fake boobs for the day, and magical things fell in her path?

theotherginger

@hollysh sadly, that would not work. I think the reasons behind the lose-lose go deeper. they shouldn't, but they do.
ETA: I realize these comments are partially in jest, but I'm just taking the humour out of it because that's what women do.

wee_ramekin

@theotherginger How could you do anything but take the humor out of the situation? Women aren't funny. God.

TheGenYgirl

As a breasty female, I actually find it frustrating if a guy I'm attracted to seems oblivious to them. Why are the good guys never boob guys?

redheaded&crazy

@TheGenYgirl I agree I do like a boob guy. I mean, when I'm DATING YOU you can do whatever you want with them!

doctors i work with, however: please don't

insouciantlover

@TheGenYgirl Or if they give your breasts a half-hearted squeeze and mention how hot JLo is.

redheaded&crazy

@insouciantlover WHAT. WHO DOES THAT. I KICK THEM OFF THE PLANET.

redheaded&crazy

@redheaded&crazie that's a little extreme maybe?

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

@TheGenYgirl "The Breasty Female flaunts her busty gifts at a potential mate in the wild; he seems oblivious, and may in fact be a sub-species of Ass Man. Meanwhile, the Breasty Female's vigorous flirtations have caught the eye of the wrong suitor, the Doused-in-Axe Man who was standing nearby at the bar, ogling. It looks like her work is never done." (I imagine this being narrated like a vignette in "Planet Earth.")

wee_ramekin

@I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

OR BY DAVID ATTENBOROUGH. Crouching behind the bar, so as not to disrupt the humans in their natural habitat.

bitzy

@redheaded&crazie No, they must be removed.

The people, not the boobs.

ann aunamis

Girls always say that a sense of humor is the most important thing? I did not know that.

Danzig!

@ann aunamis It's the haht! The haht is the most important thing.

EpWs

@Danzig! @ann aunamis BOTH WRONG, what girls really want is a man who will rinse his dishes before putting them in the dishwasher.

Megasus

@The Everpresent Wordsnatcher Or puts them in the dishwasher to begin with.

Danzig!

real talk it sucks when ladies are wearing t-shirts with small-print messages on them cuz I instinctively want to strain to read them but I can't cuz it's sort of obvious ogling behavior.

My life's pretty empty not knowing what those shirts say.

fondue with cheddar

@Danzig! I suppose you could ask if they mind if you read it. Or you could ask them what it says, and they will either tell you or give you permission to read it yourself.

I wear t-shirts like that pretty often, and to be honest I've got the kind of rack that guys like to stare at so I know when they're being creepy and when they're not. When guys read my shirt, it really only bothers me if let their eyes linger longer than necessary.

adorable-eggplant

@Danzig! I always ask: "What does your shirt say?" And sometimes this leads to an interesting explanation like, "oh it says 'run on' and I got it for finishing a marathon raising money for a grammar organization or something."

I also throw in the towel a lot, especially with newer friends or strangers who I do not want to bother (on the bus, for instance, I will respect the sacred bubble of silence) so there have been shirts that I glanced at and thought tl;dr . Sometimes I wonder about what I'm missing, but there's the warm fuzzy feeling of not being a space invader as consolation.

fondue with cheddar

@adorable-eggplant So I had lunch with my dad today, and I'm wearing a t-shirt with a picture on it. He looked at it and asked me about it, and he actually POINTED to a specific thing on it that he had a question about, a thing that happens to be an inch above my nipple. Daaaaaaad...if you weren't you I would totally think you're a creepy dude. Please don't point to things on other ladies' shirts, okay?

adorable-eggplant

@a whole thing of candy beans (formerly jen325) Aha. oh god, that's awkward. I'm blush/giggling in sympathy over here.

fondue with cheddar

@adorable-eggplant Oh, I forgot to mention that we were IN A RESTAURANT. He's getting old and starting to lose his sense of boundaries, I think. Oh, Dad.

alexparte

My boyfriend does want to take out the trash. He's a Marine, so he's super neat, and trash bothers him. On our third date, there were empty boxes in my living room (I'd just had furniture delivered), and he insisted on taking them to the dumpster in my apartment complex. When the flattened boxes wouldn't fit in the window of the aforesaid dumpster, he climbed on top of it in order to squeeze them in.

Unfortunately, his sense of humor is not great.

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