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Monday, July 9, 2012

169

Milk Talk

"Today the Department of Agriculture’s recommendation for dairy is a mere three cups daily — still 1½ pounds by weight — for every man, woman and child over age 9. This in a country where as many as 50 million people are lactose intolerant, including 90 percent of all Asian-Americans and 75 percent of all African-Americans, Mexican-Americans and Jews."
—Many people enjoyed discussing milk this weekend.



169 Comments / Post A Comment

youresmalltime

So I'm cool eating a pound and a half of frozen yogurt every day like I have been all month, right?

New Hoarder

@youresmalltime The FroYo up the street from my work has fresh yogurt parfait every morning for $2.06 (with coupon, without, $4.13) in a HUGE cup. I've been getting non-fat vanilla yogurt with fresh mango and chocolate chips a couple of times a week. SO good. This way I get my calcium (b/c I can NOT drink milk and can barely eat cereal or most yogurts, but of course love all the cheeses) AND my chocolate fix first thing in the morning.

mattewmc

Great Resource!@t

maybe partying will help

I cannot with milk. Didn't like it when I was a kid, don't like it now. Yogurt and cheese for me, pliz!

fondue with cheddar

@maybe partying will help ME TOO. The only time I ever have milk is in cereal, and even then it has to be nonfat because 1% or more is too creamy and gross. And when all the cereal is gone, I don't drink the milk that's left; down the drain it goes!

When I was a kid my parents made us drink milk with EVERY MEAL. Even tacos! :(

TheLetterL

@jen325 Milk and pizza. (Although partially my own fault for being that kid that hated soda)

maybe partying will help

@jen325

I am so glad my mom never made me drink milk. She got calcium into me other ways (tons of yogurt and greens). Thanks Mom!

My dude and I actually never buy real milk unless we're making something that requires it (vanilla Silk tastes kinda weird in mashed potatoes), and I still put the tiniest amount of Silk on my cereal possible. Just enough to get it damp. MILK I DO NOT GET YOU

Cheese, tho. And really thick Greek yogurt. And the only good thing about my suburb is this amazing custard stand...oh, custard.

Springtime for Voldemort

@maybe partying will help @jen325 Me three! With the drinking a glass of milk at every meal. For like a decade. Until she finally realized that maybe, just maybe, this was not an issue worth thousands of fights, and maybe we'd be ok with the huge amounts of cheese she gave us and some Tums.

Milk is so gross. Cheese, sour cream, cheese, cream, cheese, milk as an ingredient, cheese, and occasionally yogurt are all great. But just straight up milk? Ew.

fondue with cheddar

@TheLetterL! I saw you on Sesame Street and you were awesome. Ew, milk and pizza is a bad combination, too.

@maybe partying will help I ate yogurt as a kid, but never ate enough greens to get an adequate amount of calcium from them. Cheese is the best, but I'm a little leery of trying Greek yogurt. I don't like yogurt that's too...yogurty? I only really like the sweet, blended yogurts. Being a supertaster has a lot of drawbacks.

fondue with cheddar

@papayalily @maybe partying will help OH YEAH, MY PEOPLE. If there are gods, cheese is definitely a gift from them. I have cheese with almost every meal, and I've been known to have cheese AS a meal. :) Other non-milk dairy products are great, too. Bagel with jelly? No, thanks. Bagel with butter? Eh. Bagel with cream cheese? YES, PLEASE. A few days ago I had an asiago cheese bagel with cream cheese from Panera and it was way too many calories but I REGRET NOTHING.

maybe partying will help

@jen325

Greek yogurt IS really really yogurty. I think my supertasterness manifests in liking everything as strong as possible--the tartest yogurt! the darkest beer! the onion-saltiest onion-salt fries! the curriest curry! etc. But you can douse Greek yogurt with lots of honey and put granola and tons of fruit in it and who knows how many calories that is now, finding it hard to care with my face smashed into YOGURT GIVE ME ALL YOUR YOGURT

Springtime for Voldemort

@jen325 PUT THIS IN MY MOUTH!!!!

Bittersweet

@maybe partying will help et al: But...but...what do you drink when you eat chocolate chip cookies and Oreos?

fondue with cheddar

@maybe partying will help Wow, there's no way you can be a supertaster. Beer of any kind is really gross, but the darkest beer? I would rather go thirsty.

@papayalily GET ONE THEY ARE SO DELICIOUS.

@Bittersweet Water. It helps to rinse the sugary overload out of my mouth (not that I don't like the taste, but sometimes it gets to be too much).

maybe partying will help

@jen325

Am I thinking of the wrong term? What's it called when you find that PTC nonsense to be the worst-tasting thing ever?

fondue with cheddar

@maybe partying will help Yeah, that's it. I can't believe you like all those things, though! I mean, it's not that I think you're lying or exaggerating...it's just hard to imagine. I hate the taste of beer, coffee, and most vegetables; and I can't handle stuff that's too sweet, too salty, too spicy, or even just a little tart. I know not all supertasters are sensitive to the same things, but you're...actually pretty amazing. You're the superest-taster!

Springtime for Voldemort

@maybe partying will help I thought PTC was that kind of plastic tubing used in sinks that will probably give you cancer?

maybe partying will help

@papayalily

PVC! PTC is a chemical that tastes stronger for some taste buds than others.

fondue with cheddar

@papayalily That's PVC, and I hope you're just making up the cancer thing. I much prefer those to the copper pipes we had when I was a kid, which turned everything greenish and was probably not very healhty; and the clay pipes we have where I live now, which roots grow into, causing backups.

fondue with cheddar

@maybe partying will help I think the taste buds are the same. The different between supertasters, normal tasters, and nontasters is the number of taste buds. More taste buds means more receptors, which means a more sensitive sense of taste. I think the PTC method is used because it's easier than the method of counting the number of taste buds a person has.

Springtime for Voldemort

@jen325 @maybe partying will help Ooooooo!! Ok, now your conversation makes so much more sense.

I am not kidding about the cancer thing, but also, this does fall into "things I think I read this one time on Lifehacker like 5 years ago". So... I would definitely spend at least a good half hour researching that on the Googles before freaking out.

Megasus

@maybe partying will help Me too! Drinking milk is nassssty. Though I am actually lactose intolerant, I still eat yogurt (cuz it's fine in small amounts) and sometimes cheese and ice cream.
I do have pretty bad heartburn though (like, I have to take special pills for it), but it's more genetic than having anything to do with dairy.

maybe partying will help

@jen325

Oh yes, I think you are right. The last time I thought about this was in undergrad right after my bastardly anthro lab professor handed me a little strip of paper and told me to lick it.

fondue with cheddar

@papayalily Okay, good. I generally don't freak out about stuff like that because everything in the world is said to be bad for you by somebody. I don't worry about things like that until a significant number of experts say I should.

@maybe partying will help I'm really glad it was a little strip of paper he was talking about.

For those who are curious, you can order a pair of the little strips here for only $4.95!

New Hoarder

@jen325 I was eeked out by Greek yogurt but not since having Wallaby greek yogurt. To be fair, Wallaby is really the only kind of regular yogurt that I like at all, anyways. When it goes on sale I stock up like the dickens! My husband is lactose intolerant and supposedly the way Wallaby processes their yogurt is supposed to alleviate some of the symptoms, and my husband seems to agree.

I've really enjoyed the mini Wallaby greek yogurts plus honey or cherry, but it's expensive ($2 a pop). So I've been buying the big tubs and mixing in jams so it's not too yogurty. I also but the Trader Joe's yogurts every now and then, but as they're quite yogurty I have to stick them in the freezer a bit before I can eat them.

maybe partying will help

@jen325

Hehehe. She was a lady professor! Kind of scary though.

fondue with cheddar

@maybe partying will help At first I was really disappointed in myself for assuming that your professor was a man. Not only can professors be ladies, but a pretty significant number of them are! But then I reread your comment and saw that you used the word "bastardly", which totally explains it. So now I can forgive myself. :)

Verity

@jen325 Ugh, I never drink the milk left over when I finish the bowl of cereal either; I hate it. I like the cereal not to completely dry, so I add some, but I always try to ensure there's so little that there isn't any left in the bowl.

simalie

@jen325 I eat my cereal dry, I really hate milk. Other forms of dairy are great, though I am also a supertaster and can't eat strong cheeses or unsweetened yogurt. But I love coffee and fatty foods, which I'm told supertasters usually don't? I dunno. I hate beer with a fiery passion, and vinegar. VINEGAR! It is seriously the worst.

fondue with cheddar

@simalie It's funny how all supertasters are different. I guess it depends upon where all our extra taste buds are located? I don't like the stinkiest cheeses either. I've heard that a lot of supertasters don't like fatty foods too, and I don't share that distaste except for cream. The milk in my cereal has to be nonfat or else it tastes too creamy and grosses me out. I don't like whipped cream, and some brands of ice cream are too creamy tasting to me.

I always thought vinegar is the worst and I still do, sort of. For some reason I like vinegar fries, which doesn't make any sense at all! But I hate vinaigrette salad dressing and can't deal with these vinegar and kombucha drinks everybody's raving about.

celacia

@jen325 It is funny, isn't it? To me grapefruit is the worst - it tastes like poison to me. Followed closely by peppers which overwhelm the hell out of anything they so much as look at to the point that they are not even allowed in my house. Also overcooked broccoli (and by overcooked, I include a lot of what most people consider to be normally cooked. Vinegar is fine, though.

fondue with cheddar

@celacia I've never even eaten grapefruit. All citrus fruits taste too acidic to me with the exception of clementines. But I have to pick off all the little bits of rind because it tastes really bitter, and because clementines are so small they aren't worth all the work it takes to eat them.

celacia

@jen325 My dad used to try and get me to drink grapefruit juice all the time, because he loves it. *shudder* It is like bitter, nasty death in a bottle. Personally, I love oranges and orange juice, but can't eat/drink them anymore because allergies. The other really weird one for me is water. I can't just drink water, because it tastes strongly like dirt to me, in the way that beets do, even when filtered well.

fondue with cheddar

@celacia I've got similar feelings about water, except that it doesn't taste like dirt. Most bottled and tap water has a chemical taste, either from poor treatment/filtration or from the treatment itself. It's possible that I don't like the minerals in some waters, but I don't really know what I'm tasting so it's hard to say. Also, some bottled water tastes like the plastic it comes in. I prefer to drink water ice cold, because the warmer it is the more I taste the impurities. The only water I've tried that I like (and the only one that isn't terrible at room temperature) is Fiji.

celacia

@jen325 Huh, that was the only one I managed to be able to drink without wanting to gag. (I wouldn't go so far as to say that I liked it, though.) It wasn't until I (only recently, last year maybe?) actually tried beets that I realized that there is probably some actual reason for my water hate and not just me being weird, because it was the same nasty taste.

It was a joyous day when I brought some of those test strips to my parents' house and used science to prove to them that I am not just stubbornly fussy about food for no good reason. I brought like 3 different kinds, and my mother couldn't taste anything, but my dad could kind of taste two of them.

(I also forgot - I can't do dark green leafy vegetables either. Spinach makes me gag. I want to like it, and kale, but... I just can't do it.)

fondue with cheddar

@celacia I was really excited about the test strips, too! I wish I'd gotten extra so I could try them on my parents. I've got food allergies and texture issues too, so the foods available to me are pretty limited. My current boyfriend is the only person I've ever known who accepts that my dislikes aren't just because I'm "stubbornly fussy". And he likes pretty much everything!

Taste-wise, I can do spinach if it's raw (I don't like it but I don't hate it). But I hate how it makes your teeth feel fuzzy. I generally don't like veggies at all because most of them taste like plants, for lack of a better descriptor. I might as well grab a handful of grass and weeds from my backyard.

Springtime for Voldemort

@jen325 Lol veggies taste like plants! I'm sorry, I know exactly what you mean, but this is totally cracking me up.

fondue with cheddar

@papayalily Haha, I know it sounds ridiculous but I'm glad somebody understands. :)

Cat named Virtute

Oh good, I'm glad the big wedge of cheese I'm snacking down on with a peach and the full-fat milk in my hot chocolate are approved of!

TheLetterL

Things you will pry from my cold, dead fingers: 1. Cheese; 2. Dairy in my coffee.

NeverOddOrEven

@TheLetterL
For anyone who is interested though, the Silk coffee creamer in the carton is amazing.

TheLetterL

@NeverOddOrEven Fair. Soy is...not terrible.

kickupdust

@NeverOddOrEven also the coconut milk creamer is really good! not coconutty, believe me, I put it in my tea.

TheLetterL

@kickupdust Ooooh, I did not like the So Delicious brand coconut creamer. That's okay, though; the coconut milk ice cream is really good.

kickupdust

@TheLetterL it's incredible, that ice cream. there's also this restaurant where I live that does coconut milk soft serve ice cream. mmmmmm.

TheLetterL

@kickupdust I want to go to there. A local place had coconut cream based ice cream for a limited run and there was much wailing and rending of garments when it was discontinued.

....wait! Just checked the website! Is it back? OMG, I think it's back. Aaaiiiiieeeeee!

stuffisthings

@TheLetterL How much and what kind of dairy are you putting in your coffee, that it needs to be pryed?

Faintly Macabre

@TheLetterL I went on a coffee date with a weirdo who kept asking if I'd ever taken my coffee black. Really? I hadn't? Why not? And I wouldn't ever? Wasn't I curious?

That was basically the number 1 dealbreaker among his many other dealbreakers. Shut up and let me drink my milky, sugary tar in peace!

TheLetterL

@stuffisthings Cheeseucinno?

@Faintly Macabre What? Definitely a dealbreaker.

ImASadGiraffe

@TheLetterL I put unsalted butter in my coffee. The Kerrygold brand. AMAZING.

If I don't have butter, I put in half and half. Dairy in coffee FTW.

lue
lue

@ImASadGiraffe
WHAT?! For real? How much butter? I must try this.

ImASadGiraffe

@lue Yes, for real. I go with about a tablespoon for 12 ounces of coffee. If you whip it in with a fork it gets foamy at the top!

wrappedupinbooks

@lue @ImASadGiraffe Two words: whipping cream. Trust. Its basically butter in milky form (as I learned the hard way over-whipping whipped cream).

anachronistique

I am really excited to be going back to my hometown for vacation at the end of the week, where I can get the delicious milk from our local dairy farm. (They sell it in glass bottles! Their cream is so thick it practically stands up by itself!)

TheDragon

@anachronistique That's how I feel about eggs! My family has chickens, and store bought eggs gross me out after getting used to fresh, chemical free eggs, with yolks so dark they've bypassed yellow and gone to orange.

anachronistique

@The Kendragon Sometimes my dad gets fresh eggs from one of his coworkers who has chickens. So good. (One time he got a duck egg! It was HEEYUGE.)

TheDragon

@anachronistique We have a random pheasant who decided that wild life was too hard and moved in with the girls. She even sleeps in the coop at night and lets us handle her, so we have itty bitty pheasant eggs too!

boyofdestiny

Sigh. He's rarely wrong, but Mark Bittman's advice was much easier to swallow when it was couched in cheap and easy recipes rather than pissed-off jeremiads.

HeyMatilda

I always had problems drinking milk with dinner as a kid. The concept of a savory meal with so much dairy just doesn't mesh well with me. It's a rare occasion I can drink a whole glass of milk without a cookie to tide me over.

TheDragon

MMM milk, and cheese, and yogurt, and ice cream, and sour cream, I love ANYTHING with dairy.
I will eat enough dairy for three of the lactose intolerant folk. (I know that this benefits no one, but we shall pretend.)

sparrow303

@The Kendragon YES- do this! People always say, "Oh, I don't want to eat pizza/ice cream/ delicious things with dairy in front of you because it's sad!" And I say, "EAT IT. I want to watch." (Also they will destroy my stomach, so I'm really not that sad any more, promise).

(Creepy? Yes. Satisfying? Also yes).

Derevkova

I am just allergic to all the parts of milk. Actually, make that the entire cow. I used to get sick while eating beef. Apparently you can be allergic to beef if you're allergic to milk! Who knew? I shall stay with my gingersnaps (blackstrap molasses, yaaay) and almonds for my calcium.

Alixana

@Derevkova Hmm ... I am allergic to beef (as in, can't digest it) but only slightly lactose intolerant, and definitely not enough to ever give up cheese ever. Interesting.

Judith Slutler

I mean, yeah, but "need" and "desire" are two different things and both are still acceptable? Obviously not if you have chronic stomach pain though. What is this comment even about

sudden but inevitable betrayal

I'm finding that the older I get, the less happy my stomach is with milk in it. Not that I've stopped putting milk in it, but I at least know it won't sit well.

fondue with cheddar

@sudden but inevitable betrayal Me too. I used to have no problem with dairy when I was younger, but now I have issues if I have too much of it. Cheese yogurt, and ice cream are okay, but milk (especially fatty milk) is bad. I don't like milk, but if I did I wouldn't be able to drink a whole glass of it. And I can't drink milkshakes without getting the poops (though I still drink them sometimes).

VDRE

@sudden but inevitable betrayal Me too and it's making me so sad. I just down the milk and ignore the consequences (and pretend that my stomachache was caused by something else).

damselfish

@sudden but inevitable betrayal There is lactose intolerance in my family that was all late onset and I dread this happening. I think I go through a gallon of milk a week just to stave this off as long as possible.

No one will take my gelato from me. NO ONE! Not even Mother Nature and my genetic destiny! I've allowed Mother Nature to win the battle on the familial early adulthood cat allergies, but she cannot have my lactase.

Inkling

@jen325
I've learned that sometimes people who believe they are lactose intolerant are actually intolerant to additives in milk, and can enjoy organic. I don't mean to be presumptive, but additive milk used to give me major stomach pains and poops while on my period, but organic is the best all the time... she said, as she drank a down gallon of organic to the midway point in her bed.

sudden but inevitable betrayal

@Inkcrafter You (the person I imagine to be you, since I do not know you) chilling in bed, curled up with a gallon of milk is maybe my favorite mental image ever. :)

fondue with cheddar

@Inkcrafter Hm...I've bought organic milk before, but since I don't like it enough to drink it as a beverage I wasn't able to tell if there was a difference. I only ever have a problem with large amounts, so basically just milkshakes (which I drink anyway). If I ever find myself in a restaurant that has organic milkshakes I'll definitely give it a try.

Come to think of it, I have tummy issues with Yoo-Hoo (which I also drink anyway), and that contains whey, not milk. This just prompted me to look up info about whey, and it does indeed contain lactose. Apparently some people are allergic to whey, which causes hives and breathing difficulties.

Inkling

@jen325
Ohh, I see. Thanks for clearing up what Yoo-Hoo is made out of; I was always weirded out that it didn't require refrigeration and called itself a "chocolate beverage".

@sudden but inevitable betrayal
Chillin' with milk, rashly calling people's little brothers dickbutts.

fondue with cheddar

@Inkcrafter Yeah, it's made of real stuff*, not like those "chocolate flavor coated pretzels".

Dickbutt. Thank you, I forgot about that word. I should not forget about the word dickbutt.

*You know, real stuff like high fructose corn syrup and partially hydrogenated soybean oil.

Inkling

@jen325
Dickbutt : Never 4get
and then, a crying eagle.

PS Crying eagles are called "Never Forget Eagles". I had a conversation with a True Patriot, and he says Ink, those are called Never Forget Eagles, because eagles never forget. And I was like, that's elephants. And then he made a stupid sound effect with his mouth and drank a whole beer.
The more you know!

fondue with cheddar

@Inkcrafter FASCINATING.

Unfortuantely, I Never Forget Eagles because every fall someone puts one of these in their yard. :/

stuffisthings

I'm just going to go ahead and not click through to the article, and instead assume that it says it's fine that I ate a whole pint of Ben & Jerry's last night instead of dinner.

stuffisthings

@stuffisthings I mean, at least I got my recommended daily intake of peanut brittle. Right?

NeverOddOrEven

@stuffisthings
Karamel Sutra is one of the best things I've ever put in my face.
I thought I'd never love an ice cream without coffee again.

LauraRebecca

@stuffisthings I am proud to say that I am getting all of my coworkers hooked on "What a Cluster" (née, "Clusterfluff").

PatatasBravas

Whole milk! Bring it to me!

(and cheese, and yogurt, and ice cream, and buttermilk, and all the dairies)

Inkling

@PatatasBravas
And creamer straight out the carton.
AM I RIGHT.

runner in the garden
sarah girl

@runner in the garden YES, I knew this was an Achewood link just from the phrasing!

brooklebee

@runner in the garden L.W.? You're on the hairpin? For some reason that is disconcerting, although not surprising. In any case, hi! How are you? --Brook

NeverOddOrEven

Any 'Pinners have anecdotal experience with cutting out dairy clearing up acne?
I've heard this a few places and think about being vegan enough to be intrigued, but still have a hard time believing the hormones are really the cause.

SarahP

@NeverOddOrEven Hormones are the cause for me--but it's my hormones, not a cow's. I'm vegan and while I didn't really notice that cutting out dairy helped my acne, my younger brother specifically stopped eating dairy to help his acne, and it worked. (Complete with a breakout when he tried dairy again, to see if it was that.) So I think it's different from person to person.

OhMyGoshYouGuys

@NeverOddOrEven I suspect cow's milk/cheese/yogurt caused flair-ups for me. However I've recently reintroduced goat dairy in the form of cheese and yogurt and I haven't noticed any problems.

EvilAuntiePeril

@NeverOddOrEven Yep - I had horrible and painful cystic acne for years in my early twenties, and the only thing that cleared it up was going completely non-dairy (any dairy) for about 4 years. After that, I started to reintroduce it (<3 you cheese, yogurt & milky black tea) but I have a limit, and especially after really cheesy moments, I just have to go cold turkey for a week or 2. When it happens, I get this really weird feeling - sometimes accompanied by one of those old horrible cystic spots, sometimes not.

2 other possibly-related things: I found I had the same thing with anything coconut-related (actually worse than dairy) which means a lot of the tastier non-dairy alternatives were ruled out, and my vegan life was somewhat limited.

And I've always hated the taste of plain milk, cream and even ice cream (even as a kid) but fermented dairy (cheese/yogurt/kefir) and milk (not a lot) in tea seem to be entirely different.

EvilAuntiePeril

@EvilAuntiePeril oops - thing number 3. For me it was all dairy (cow, sheep, goat) initially. Saying that, my tolerance for goat stuff now seems a bit higher, but even that has limits. Organic (where I live this also means hormone-free) is definitely better. Bodies & nutrition => weird.

Gwdihw

@NeverOddOrEven
I have read that seriously lowering carbs helps with some people. I guess it depends on your personal sensitivities.

olivebee

@NeverOddOrEven I don't do dairy because of my vegetarianism (just rice or almond milk for me), and I only wish it helped to clear up my skin! I don't have, like, raging acne or anything, but a handful of spots that keep me constantly pissed off at my face, and getting rid of dairy did nothing, so....it probably depends on the person.

lauren.elizabeth

@NeverOddOrEven Yes. I did it and it worked. It was my doctor's recommendation (not a dermatologist, just my regular doctor who apparently had super bad acne as a teenager and gave me all his tips). I went totally dairy free and my skin got much better. Previously it had been Accutane-bad, and now I only get flare ups when I slip/splurge and eat dairy (homemade ice cream makes it so hard).

I don't know if it's the hormones or what, but for me it made a really big difference. I've been dairy free for about 6 years now, and my skin is so much better.

sparrow303

@NeverOddOrEven Yeah, I am lactose intolerant since college and I break out less often-- but I still break out.

Of course, the less often part might also be due to be being older and knowing my skin better-- too many variables.

damselfish

@NeverOddOrEven I tried it for three months. If it helped, the difference was so minor that I couldn't tell. Maybe I should have experimented longer, but at that point I as going mad from the lack of cheese.

It really depends on hormones. Since my derm is suggesting heavy duty anti-androgens, I don't think it's the lady hormones (like those in milk) that're doing it. Problem with acne is everybody's different and you will never know until you try something! I've heard from people that it helped, and if you can go without try giving it a few months.

Sarah Pin@twitter

@NeverOddOrEven I've noticed a correlation between consuming a lot of dairy and breaking out, but it's not a big problem if I'm careful about washing my face and using benzoyl peroxide.

When I was a teenager, I drank two or three glasses of milk a day and had acne bad enough I was given two courses of Accutante - but then, I was a teenager at the time? Too many variables there.

Inkling

@NeverOddOrEven
My mom is texting me a LOT about how effective cutting out milk is for her skin. Apparently, it's really working for her.
PS My new favorite-ever thing is a raw honey mask. Seriously, just try it, it is incredible. I am a beautiful creature.

NeverOddOrEven

@Inkcrafter
Oh yea, those are awesome. I'm already all over that.

Inkling

@NeverOddOrEven
We are SO pretty.

iknowright

I know that you're not supposed to consume dairy with a head cold, but my mom had gifted me some Talenti Mediterranean Mint gelato. My solution was to drink a cup of tea, then eat 1/4 of the pint, then another cup of tea. It's sort of the same logic I use where if I eat a candy bar I'll usually eat an apple to cancel it out. That's how it works, yeah?

Also I hated milk so much as a kid but was forced to drink a glass a day and my parents would put it in the freezer to try to make it like a slushie treat, but I wasn't having it. Later I realized I only hate low-fat milk, discovered when I moved to Europe and gained about 10 pounds by drinking full-fat milk with everything. Worth it! Also, chocolate milk. Yes.

anachronistique

@iknowright I have a chest cold and ate ice cream yesterday. WORTH IT.

RK Fire

I am one of the 90% of Asian Americans that is probably lactose intolerant but I love cheese so, so much. I am laying off milk though, even though I had a love affair with the chocolate milk that came from the local creamery. ::sigh::

I miss you, chocolate milk.

Also: the reason why I haven't done a 30 day paleo challenge (or a Whole 30 challenge or whatever) is because I'm afraid that once I do it, I won't be able to eat any dairy (ice cream and cheese, nooooo) or wheat (pizza :( ) afterwards due to a discovery that I have some sort of allergy or intolerance to those things. Yes, I would probably lose some body fat and yes, my gut would probably heal.. b ut I'm not sure if I want to pay that price for it. o_O

Bittersweet

@RK Fire My husband is lactose intolerant and swears by Silk chocolate milk, both as a recovery food after biking and as a delicious snack. Not even anywhere near the same as local creamery chocolate milk, but...something?

Judith Slutler

@Bittersweet That shit seriously is delicious! I can have milk but I prefer chocolate Silk.

RK Fire

@Bittersweet: I've always been a little leery of soy milk because of memories when my parents would buy it from the Chinese grocery store and make us drink it. I hear it's come a long way now that it's more mainstream, but I haven't been able to bring myself to try any variety. However, if your husband and Emmanuelle are right..

Derevkova

@RK Fire Almond Breeze's chocolate milk is my favourite.

ImASadGiraffe

@RK Fire I did Whole30 last year and I added back dairy (I do CrossFit and I just can't eat enough calories/protein via meat and eggs to cover what I need, so dairy helps), and I didn't have issues. I thought I was lactose-intolerant but really I think I was having more stomach issues b/c of the gluten and sugar I was eating with the dairy, because I don't have issues with dairy now.

RK Fire

@ImASadGiraffe: I know I really need to try it some time because otherwise I Will Never Know For Sure, but for some reason I have a hard time doing it. (I won't say that I don't have the willpower or discipline since I have been lifting 3 times a week..)

Cavendish

@RK Fire Some cheese is naturally lactose free. Some Cabot brand varieties are, if you can get that where you live.

OhShesArtsy

This weekend I had a beer and cheese extravaganza with friends.

It was incredible.

I'm lactose intolerant.

I'm still a little sick from it.

NO REGRETS.

rallisaurus

I was at my local farmers market this weekend and my boyfriend forced a local creamery's chocolate milk upon me. It was the best chocolate milk I've ever had! It was like a milkshake! Never thought that drinking milk on a hot summer day would feel so good.

Also, the Indian food I had afterwards did more damage to my stomach than the milk did. I must thank my milk drinking ancestors for my lactose tolerance.

RK Fire

@rallisaurus: Local creamery chocolate milk is AMAZING. Sometimes my husband and I would cut it with regular milk just to make it last that much longer.

maybe partying will help

@rallisaurus

I was at the farmers' market this weekend and wandered past a dairy stall, and the guy was like, I'll bet you I can guess your favorite kind of cheese! and handed me a slice of killer mirabo-with-walnuts and I had to tell him, Yes, this is my favorite cheese. Of course pretty much any cheese you hand me is my favorite, but whatevs.

rallisaurus

@maybe partying will help Or you tell him no and he keeps handing you cheese...

maybe partying will help

@rallisaurus

DAMMIT why didn't I think of that.

rallisaurus

@maybe partying will help Go in disguise next weekend? My market has several dairy-ish stands. The creamery is mostly milk, but the two cheese stands always put out tons of samples. Moral of the story? Everyone loves a sample!

celacia

@RK Fire My local dairy makes egg nog for the holidays (and they had some for Easter as well, which was odd, but awesome). It is to _die_ for, even if I can't drink more than a shotglass or so of it because allergies.

themegnapkin

So many angry comments on that piece! The dairy industrial complex has really won the war. I used to love cheese, but over the past 2 years I've mostly cut it and other dairy out of my diet, and I'm amazed how little I miss it, and how much less heartburn I have.

sudden but inevitable betrayal

@themegnapkin Heartburn, really? I never thought it could be connected to dairy... HMMMM!

Gwdihw

Milk=phlegm city for me, like hay-fever style.

olivebee

@l'esprit de l'escalier I get that way with ice cream. Every time I eat it (even non-dairy ice creams), my throat gets coated, and I hack and cough away for like an hour afterward. It suuuuuucks. But how can I not eat ice cream?

WhyHelloThere

Wait, so now are we pretending that the Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine is a real health organization, rather than a front for PETA? What a weird group to cite!

Having said that, I'm lactose intolerant, and I'm pretty sure that I don't need to eat things that make me sick. I agree that the government's recommendations are basically subsidies for the dairy industry, and I choose not to follow them, because if I did I'd be farting all the time.

hopelessshade

I drank full glasses of milk with every meal as a kid. Every day, all the time, I loved it. But I was aware it made me slightly gassy, so when I went off to college and the dorms served soy milk, I decided to switch for the sake of social propriety.

AND NOW I'M LACTOSE INTOLERANT WHAT GIVES.

Inkling

@hopelessshade
Soy milk is stupid, farting is awesome.

WaityKatie

@hopelessshade I used to drink milk all the time too as a kid, but I had to switch to soy when I grew up because it just keeps so delightfully long in the fridge. My milk was always spoiling by the time I got it back from the store, yet I've had a thing of soy milk in there for like...months, now? And it's still "drinkable." Or so I tell myself.

harebell

People do not get tired of figuring out what work for them and then generalizing it to the rest of humanity, do they? I'm ready to get "all things in moderation" tattooed across my bicep now.

16% of Americans are lactose-intolerant. 84% are not. Bodies react differently.

Personally I'm of Northern European heritage and my ancestors were probably drinking milk ever since the last Ice Age receded. Drinking milk with a meal sounds gross (so much food at once!), but drinking milk as a snack or as a dessert is delicious. A glass of milk, hot or cold, in the middle of the night, totally cures insomnia for me, too. Different strokes for different folks. Lo que no mata engorda. Etc.

This is my new username

@harebell I agree! I love milk and it does not seem to cause me any issues that I am aware of. I really resent it when people try to tell me I would somehow be healthier without it. I like a tall glass of milk with my meal. It's tasty and refreshing! I also tend to eat less when I have milk with my meal. Also cheese is the food of the gods. And Ice Cream! Clearly I love me some dairy.

I really hate the 'vilification' of milk. Milk is not a poison. It can be a perfectly lovely part of many people’s diet when consumed in moderation, just like many, many things in life.

KeLynn

ughhhh you guys are making me crave nighttime milk right now, and appetizer milk, but we're out of milk and don't get any more until tomorrow NIGHT (with a grocery delivery) and I don't have enough room in my fridge to buy a whole second carton today and I suddenly feel as if I will die if I don't get to have some milk today.

meetapossum

@harebell I had a really fun debate with my friend about the paleo diet because he was trying it for a bit, and one of his Facebook friends said our bodies evolved to eat that diet. I told him that was crazy because we've been eating grains and dairy for thousands of years.

sparrow303

Everybody's like, I'm lactose intolerant but CHEESE.

The last time I ate cheese, I had to run all the way home from an Italian restaurant. There are many different levels of lactose intolerance. Keep that in mind the next time you try to peer pressure your LI friend into trying "just a little".

Diana

@fishiefishfish

Hahaha, I'm the opposite and when an LI friend asks for a bit of cheese pizza I stare at them for the rest of their night, trying to track their pulse, making sure they're breathing normally.

sparrow303

@Diana Haha! My favorite thing about having a boyfriend was having the ability to steal the very tiniest bite of his ice cream cake when I just couldn't handle the temptation. But even then I take Lactaid. I love dairy, but it doesn't love me back.

Clara Morena

Dad’s from Minnesota a hard core milk drinker. My mother is Mexican, so not so much. Once I was born, she made sure I had my father’s milk drinking habits. So now, I not a hard core milk drinker like my father's family but more fanatical milk drinker than my mother's family.

SuperGogo

Since I've never broken a bone in my life, I'll just be over here clinging to my drink-a-gallon-every-week-or-so-all-by-myself rock.

Verity

@SuperGogo I've never broken a bone, but I hate (and don't drink) milk. Hurrah for unfeasibly strong bones!

Mad as a Hatter!

I used to drink milk all the time, and required with my cereal and oatmeal and cookies and etc. Apparently the Lactose Intolerance Switch was flipped to ON when I turned twenty, and I'm still stupidly suffering.

"Just one bowl of cereal won't do me any harm!" *five minutes later the bathroom door slams*

sparrow303

@Hello sweetie I did that for a long time. Life became much more pleasant when I surrendered and started exploring soy options at the store.

Now I eat near-cheese in moderation and have far fewer stomachaches (and "stomachache" is a pleasant euphemism for what happens to me! Sounds like you, too).

It's easier if you live in the city, but even Wal-Mart is starting to carry some non-dairy options now. Some of them are very good! Try things out and see what you like. It's WAY more pleasant than being sick.

Love, another door-slammer

Stavromula Beta

I can't be the only one who finds Mark Bittman insufferable. I often agree with him in broad strokes, but he's just so damn self-righteous.

Diana

Now that I'm getting older it's harder for me to drink straight milk, which is a big problem because it's always been a primary source of not only calcium but protein in general. I tried drinking a whey protein shake last week and I spent the next three hours at work holding on to the edge of my desk trying not to barf. It really sucks, I don't want to phase out milk, I like milk - it's cheap, widely available, and has all the nutrients I lack from the rest of my diet. (I can't really afford to eat much meat or poultry.) Aarrgh, bodies, why you gotta be like this?

New Hoarder

Has anyone else had major issues with calcium supplements? I've tried the normal pills (too big, upchucked them). I've tried Tums and wanted to kill myself (mom used to force these on me when younger). I've tried the chocolatey or caramel chews; had to stop because I was devolving into hating chocolate. Lately I've been attempting gummy calcium chews but they're still so damn creamy that I have to fight the barf urge. I seriously wish there was some weekly injection that I could myself or whatever with all the calcium that I need.

Oh, squiggles

@New Hoarder Hate to give you bad news, but if you eat enough leafy green vegetables, broccoli, and other super food veggies and fruits, you would probably be getting enough calcium. Along with all the other vitamins and minerals they are chock full of.

New Hoarder

@Awesomely Nonfunctional Nope, this is good news. I eat like a gallon of spinach a week, and broccoli probably a couple of times a week. Dunno how much I get from fruit, but either way I am always paranoid about osteoporosis because it runs in my family. We have the family story of how "Great-Grandma did not fall and break her hip; she broke her hip and then fell." *shudder*

Oh, squiggles

@New Hoarder Well, eating all those healthy foods should be more than enough calcium intake. Also, since they are in the form they were meant to be take in, they should be more effective. My doctor told me once that if you get a good variety of fruit and veg, and eat more of those than anything else, you don't need vitamins.

The other important thing about osteoporosis is exercise and staying active. Specifically, doing squats or lunges to keep the leg/hip muscles healthy and strong will do a lot to prevent the kind of bone deterioration you are talking about.

I also have a similar family story, but mine goes "She stayed active and healthy into her 90s, but when she broke her hip and was no longer active, quickly deteriorated" So! Activity is important!

werewolfbarmitzvah

@New Hoarder I started taking calcium supplements last year because my doctor told me to, but a couple of weeks ago I heard (why do I keep thinking that I heard it here?) that calcium supplements do nothing for you except maybe give you kidney stones.

RNL
RNL

@New Hoarder I was told by a fancy Ivy League nutrition scientist that calcium consumption is not really that big a deal - you need way less than they say we do (dairy lobby!). What you DO need to keep your bones strong is impact exercise and strength training where your muscles pull on your bones. That causes calcium to come out of solution in your blood and jam up in your hard bits. Or so I've been told.

teaandcakeordeath

As I get older, my body just becomes intolerant to EVERYTHING eventually morphing me in to that woman laughing alone with salad, except Im not laughing alone, Im crying alone whilst staring wistfully at the burritos with extra sour cream. Sigh.
I mean giggle.

Oh, squiggles

Ugh, but why do I have to love dairy so much. All the cheese please!

Trying to quit though.

stonefruit

I hate drinking milk. My parents made us drink it with every meal, and my brother, little stinker that he was*, would always chug his glass of milk and sing out, "I drank all my healthy!" Then he would point to me and say, "stonefruit didn't finish her healthy!" And then I would get in trouble.

Joke's on him, though, as he grew up to be severely lactose intolerant while I tolerate (and, in the case of cheese and yogurt, really love and enjoy) the lacts just fine.

also, if either of my siblings reads the comments here, I've now officially given myself away.

* still is, for that matter

Inkling

@stonefruit
Man, your brother was such a dickbutt that I am really happy he is lactose intolerant now.

stonefruit

@Inkcrafter hey now. in his defense, he was 7-8 when he pulled that stunt.

MilesofMountains

I hate drinking milk on its own. It always smells and tastes slightly off to me. Maybe it's because my parents had a strict "no drinking milk" rule when I was growing up (we were poor, milk is really expensive) and I never got the taste for it? Soy milk doesn't taste right in tea, though, so I will continue to buy it. I definitely find the government shilling for the dairy industry to be problematic, though.

Tragically Ludicrous

I used to be all "oh yeah humans aren't supposed to drink milk", but then I moved to the Netherlands where everyone, adult men included, seems to be drinking milk approximately 90% of the day. And they're all giant and healthy-looking and bike everywhere. My generalist theory about humanity flew out the window when I was faced with a different culture!

(Also, I'm allergic to soy milk. A friend accidentally got me a soy latte once, and I tried to drink it out of politeness even though I knew soy milk was an issue, and felt like I wanted to scratch out my throat with just a sip.)

WhyHelloThere

@Tragically Ludicrous I think the problem is that the people who make dietary recommendations for the American government haven't had the same insight about cultures where most adults don't drink milk because it makes them sick. I don't believe that milk is bad. I do believe that it's unfair to tell people who can't drink milk that our main option is to buy really expensive, disgusting milk or buy really expensive supplements to let us drink normal milk.

I can't handle soy milk either, though. I put almond milk in my coffee.

Tragically Ludicrous

@WhyHelloThere I don't know, I think the problem is also whiny blog posts with people saying that humans aren't meant to drink milk. Just calm down, everyone.

I drink my coffee black, unless I feel like going out for a latte.

WhyHelloThere

@Tragically Ludicrous You think that whiny blog posts are as big a problem as the government, in its official capacity, spreading health information that mostly works for people of Western European descent? That's interesting.

Tragically Ludicrous

@WhyHelloThere I figure people who are lactose intolerant can figure out that the guideline doesn't apply to them, and ignore it.

WhyHelloThere

@Tragically Ludicrous I'm not sure why you would assume that, since the official USDA line is that everyone needs dairy and that lactose intolerant people should therefore drink (disgusting) lactose-free milk or take lactase pills to allow us to tolerate dairy. Why are we responsible for knowing that the government is giving us bad advice?

Tragically Ludicrous

@WhyHelloThere Because I give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to them knowing what not to drink when they're lactose intolerant and don't assume they're complete morons? We've got a thread full of people here saying they don't drink milk despite what the USDA says, and before I moved to the Netherlands I never saw adults regularly drink milk. It's all anecdotal, of course, and the plural of anecdotes isn't data, but I don't think people are generally so stupid as to follow the USDA guidelines when they aren't valid. (Hell, how often do people follow the USDA guidelines for anything ever?)

WhyHelloThere

@Tragically Ludicrous You've never known anyone who tried to follow the food pyramid? I've known plenty of people who have tried to follow the food pyramid, including myself. The USDA guidelines shape American education about nutrition, both in schools and in all sorts of public health campaigns, and they really only work for white people. I don't know if you really believe what you're saying or if you're just too stubborn to back down, but it's hard for me to believe that you'd be ok with the government lying to people about their health, basically just because they want to subsidize a powerful industry.

lue
lue

I've just inherited two goats and I'm sooo excited about milk in the spring. and butter. And ricotta. Oh, boy!

sudden but inevitable betrayal

@lue No way! Do you have a blog where I can follow these exploits or shall I just camp outside your house forever?

Brunhilde

I've never drank a glass of milk in my life. Unless you count that one time that the bitchface cafeteria aid poured some down my throat because I had forgotten my lunch at home so they forced a school lunch on me comprised entirely of things I was allergic to, but I puked that up on her and then got hives.

I grew out of my dairy allergy, but have never been able to drink milk. It's just... gross.

NeverOddOrEven

@Brunhilde
That's awful! Our free lunches were terrible - peanut butter or american cheese on a white bun. I saw someone with my own eyes peel the peanut butter off of one in one piece. Like a patty or something.

Cavendish

Here is where I become a raw milk evangelist: raw milk is so delicious, and it has all kinds of enzymes and good stuff that makes it more digestible than pasteurized milk. My husband can drink it and he hasn't been able to drink regular milk since he was a kid. Plus each gallon has 1"-4" of cream on top, which you can pour off and keep For your coffee, or just mix in to make the milk extra creamy. I can't drink it with a meal though. It's really a meal in itself.

Soy milk is terrible for your body.

Inkling

@Cavendish
Is soy milk really terrible for you? And yes, I love raw milk sooo much. When I am rich, it will be all that I drink.

lemon mint fizz

@Cavendish I have mixed feelings about soymilk...a lot of the negative research about it tended to be connected to dairy associations. Is soymilk the only soy product that's bad? What about tofu? I'm currently in India for the summer (live in the US though!), where raw milk is more easily accessible (COWS EVERYWHERE, and there isn't really anything you can prevent from being sold in India--the government is far from the people, IMO, over here), but every doctor (both allopathic and homeopathic) has shunned milk, because of how harmful the lactic acid is for bones... And this is India, the land of milk sweets and kheer and lassi and ghee! But they've also spoken out against soy, and have said that this idea that we need as much protein as we're told is the result of Westernization, which is always "protein, protein, protein!" (and it's true). But, I suppose it's easier said than done over here, where a majority of the population is already vegetarian (no eggs), and most of the foods are already without dairy or soy--or can be adapted to be without either.

sudden but inevitable betrayal

@lemon mint fizz I thought milk was good for bones! Everything I know is wrong!

lemon mint fizz

@sudden but inevitable betrayal

Hm, I'm very wary about what I've read and researched, since it seems like if it's not research funded by dairy people that encourage us to drink milk--it's research that had been funded by the soy industry, which is problematic when you consider the fact that much soy is genetically-modified, which invites other ethical debates on the side of soy just as much as the ethical debates of keeping so many cows and feeding them non-grass diets, separating them from their calves, and the sheer amount of greenhouse gases produced. Mind you, these ethical debates are very much dependent on the culture of America. In India, I don't know if you can raise those exact same ethical dilemmas of milk production for human consumption.

My internet connection is limited since I only paid for a certain amount of gigs, so I can't make a more thorough, cited reply (yet! I have to get to my aunt's house with her super speedy wireless)...but I read that while we definitely need calcium, the lactic acid in milk completely shoots that perceived benefit to hell, since the body MUST take calcium FROM the bone to neutralize lactic acid. I think it was something called the China Study that detailed this? Also, rennin is something that is produced in abundance in young mammals, but lessens as humans age and pepsin takes it's place. Rennin's main function is breaking down milk so that the stomach can absorb it's nutrients. It's gradual lessening is sometimes considered the reason why people may become lactose intolerant as they age...also it is used as to reason to why we don't need milk--and I have to agree: we are the only animals that continue to drink milk after infancy/toddlerhood. I mean, that's not to say we don't like it or can't drink it (it tastes good to some people!)...but I guess my main concern is that it is perceived as a necessity, and when school lunches and concerned parents are forming meals--the food plate/pyramid is used as a reference. It just rubs me the wrong way that the government produces a nutrition plan with the hand of the dairy industry. And with milk aversion occurring SO frequently in minorities--it kind of reeks of ignorance of the multiethnic fabric of America and diverse needs that it entails. Nutrition is a health science--and like much of health science, basing it on one group is incredibly dangerous (research and drug trials concerning heart attacks were, at one point in time, only tested on men because they figured, HEY, it's all the same--and then they realized that women feel heart attacks and react to heart attack medication differently than men...oops? I'm not saying nutrition is equivalent to cardiovascular health--or maybe it is since they are very related?--but it's this ignorance of the population when researching health-related things that irks me).

...ugh, sorry for the long response! If there's opposing information (there most likely is...since nutrition and what we should/shouldn't eat is a hot-button issue), I'm definitely interested in it! I can cite my sources, but I can't access my papers or download them because of my internet limit. Hopefully, in our nutrition section of medical school, I can get some unbiased, not-funded-by-corporate-food-entities information and finally straighten out my own diet.

Oh, and I'm vegetarian-slowly-stopping-consumption-of-dairy-and-eggs (at least in America...the ethical reasons for why I am trying to stop become less so in India, or so I've experienced). The reason I mention this is for any bias in my response.

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