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Thursday, June 21, 2012

236

Versus Lola

Last week, an email leaked from the writer-director team behind Lola Versus, that complained about possibly sexist reviews from male critics that hurt the opening box office of their single-gal-finds-herself flick. Comments were made ‘round the internet alleging that the movie was just plain shitty and they were playing the sexism card as an excuse. I headed to the multi-plex to see just who was zooming who — why were male critics hating so hard and was the reaction to the leaked email gaslighting the Lola Versus folks?

The movie starts like a typical Hollywood rom-com about a betrothal, with a dreamy proposal from a hunky man (waddup, shirtless Detective Holder from The Killing) and some giddy say-yes-to-the-dress bullshit. The main difference is it’s Greta Gerwig as the titular Lola and the guy that played Miranda July’s husband in her last movie — quirky indie actors. Not like Anna Faris and Chris Evans groomed within an inch of their blonde lives. That’s pretty much where they unhitch the wagon. Detective Holder breaks up with Lola shortly before their wedding and we watch her spin out for the better part of the year. She does some movie-typical stuff (takes advice from wise cracking gal pal, has trying-on-a-million-outfits montage) and then some actual girl typical stuff (stays drunk, sleeps with her best guy friend). My favorite part of the movie is where she yells at the guy she’s been smanging that just because she’s a slut doesn’t mean she’s a bad person. I also appreciate casting Debra Winger (luv her) as Lola’s mom. Lola mopes, has a post-coital cry sesh after a round of ex-sex, defends her dissertation, eats wings at a strip club, tries to fuck her way out of her sadness. The movie’s final act is her revelation that being alone is not the end of the world: she opts not to take Detective Holder back. He will have to go back to AMC channel and hunt Rosie Larsen’s killer as a lonely man… And Lola lives on! Solo! Hapless and wacky, her dissertation in the can! And it avoids the cliché of ending with an at-the-altar scene. Huzzah.

It wasn’t the best movie ever made, but it was better than the last four hours of The Avengers, so there is that.

Isn’t that what we want in a movie, a little nuanced liberation and fewer shopping montages? To have some movies of girl-life feel realish and not like the script was actually a decoupaged collage made from pages of women's magazines and Penthouse Forum? To maybe even a watch a movie about a lady who doesn’t want to get married? DARE TO DREAM, WIMMIN!

The Lola Versus folks may not be able to correlate their lagging box office directly to the bad-to-awful reviews that they got from mostly male critics, who gave it a collective HELLS NAW and did some deep shitting upon the little film, but the facts of a critical gender split on the movie remain: of the 64 Google-able reviews of the film that were written by men, 65% of them were negative. In comparison, of the 39 reviews by women, 79% of them were positive. The unifying theme of the critique? There can be only one show/movie with a quirky single lady having questionable break-up sex in New York, U.S.A. — and that show is Girls.

A quick stroll through some of the notable negative review finds consensus — once we have seen Girls, we should be sated. Lena Dunham, uber alles.

“This is the kind of cutely alienated indie relationship comedy that Lena Dunham's HBO series Girls has made irrelevant.” – Entertainment Weekly

"Lola Versus" deserves the bulk of the ire being misdirected at the new HBO series "Girls."  – Indie Wire

“It’s all like an extended episode of “Girls,” minus that series’ self-lacerating sense of humor." – New York Film Critics Circle

“I’m sorry, but in the season of  “Girls” a secondhand, sentimental sex comedy, however well-meaning, is not going to cut it.” – So sayeth an uncharacteristically sharp A.O. Scott of the New York Times.

“You’re better off with HBO’s “Girls” if you want a sharper and more fulfilling take on the 20-something female experience in New York.” – The Playlist

Though some weren’t just negative:

The Associated Press’ David Germain ups the hateration: “At some point, a good slap in the face is the best medicine for a loved one caught up in her own little train wreck of a love life. That's what Lola needs and deserves. And it's what much of the audience will be hoping for – Lola versus palm to the cheek.” C’mon Dave, lets not be too 50 Shades here, with Lola “needing” a good whuppin'. Also, it’s hard to imagine that even the most callous audience would want to see Greta Gerwig’s Lola go from dancing with her sharp-witted BFF and awkward dates to getting Chris Browned.

Not to be outdone, Robin Clifford of Reeling Reviews advocates something a little more along the lines of a Sharia-law realism twist for the third act: “The story is merely a series of Lola’s screw ups, which in a normal world would result with her being stoned to death by the angry mob of the many people she hurts.” Who are the people she hurts? The rollerblader she doesn’t fuck a second time? Ex-bf and her BFFs who she fell out with and then made up with? How is two people “many”? Why not go for the hyperbolic gold and call them “legion”? Personally, I thought the birthday rap at the end was cute and think a violent stoning would be totally wack.

Reading these reviews, it made me wonder: WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE IRATE ABOUT A MOVIE THAT IS SO THOROUGHLY HARMLESS?! Why are these dudes so undid over Lola that they think the appropriate ending is to see her met with grievous bodily harm? Are they not ready for that jelly?

Seems totally fair for the Lola team to ‘play the sexism card’, given some of these reviews, and also, duh, we still live in a patriarchy. (Kinda can’t discount that one.) Lola Versus isn’t change your life fare, or even a movie you need to see more than once, but it’s sure as shit less offensive than its reviewers.

Jessica Hopper is Chicago-based music critic and author of The Girls Guide to Rocking



236 Comments / Post A Comment

Megasus

This brings up an important question: should I bother with The Killing season 2? Is it at least hilarious, or is it just as infuriating as season 1?

JadedStone

@Megano! I watched one episode and I was like 'fuck it, I'm not doing this for another year'.

I don't care how much I adore Holder, everybody else is awful. ESPECIALLY YOU LINDEN.

lisma

@Megano! hm.

I diligently watched season 2 because I just enjoyed the first episode of season 1 so much. I'd say, if you're sick and in bed for a few days, go for it. The problem with The Killing is that I love the actors, I love the moodiness of the setting, but by GOD THE STORY/WRITING IS SUCH SHIT.

Danzig!

@Megano! Nope! Still horrible

purefog

@Megano! This just in: Holder don' have to look for Rosie Larsen's killer no mo'. Now he's down by the airport.

Jessica Hopper@facebook

Season 2 has a really high Scooby Doo factor two it and Linden's ice cold lady detective thing was a bit much after a bit, and the every week a new DID THIS PERSON KILL ROSIE?! OH GUESS NOT! was tedious, BUT! I really like the guy that played Rosies dad, even when his lines are terrible, I felt total parent-empathy for him. I watched the entire second season on the basis of him and Holder alone, really.

purefog

@Jessica Hopper@facebook Yeah, Stan was pretty much awesome from one end to the other. As was Holder. But I liked Linden too; it's really charming to see a cute woman do intentional frump week after week after week. Not the norm.

tales

@Jade I WON'T HEAR A WORD AGAINST HER. Linden is one of the, maybe even THE BEST female characters I've ever seen on tv.

sudden but inevitable betrayal

@Megano! I...really loved both seasons. :(

City_Dater

Nothing is more threatening than a woman choosing to remain single.
Telling the kind of insecure douchemonsters who tend to write about pop culture that being alone is possibly better than being with a guy not unlike themselves (though much better-looking) isn't likely to win them over.

limberliz

@City_Dater Now that I've found out that she stays single at the end, it makes me want to see this movie more. I don't need a man in the way I need rent money, pozole or dog walks. That boggles the minds of many of my coworkers since I broke up with my ex a little while ago, but they're learning not to ask if I've met anyone or am pregnant yet.

Midie

@City_Dater
Does anyone else remember how hostile men were to "fried green tomatoes" when it came out? I was young and thought it was such a cool movie, and didn't realize why men couldn't see that, until much later when I realized that they must have found it threatening.

Slapfight

@limberliz I'm so happy to be at that stage where everyone has given up on me. My mom stopped trying to set me up with contraction workers at around 27. Sweet release!

fondue with cheddar

@City_Dater Yes, there is: a woman choosing not to have babies. THE WORLD WILL END IF WE DON'T ALL HAVE BABIES.

fondue with cheddar

@Midie We need to have a 'Pinners film festival where we watch all the movies society wants us to forget.

Slapfight

@Slapfight That's CONSTRUCTION workers. Damn you, autocorrect! Oh contraction workers. Always giving me the spasms.

DrFeelGood

@Midie Because a woman choosing to be with another woman instead of her husband who beats her, well that just ain't right.

wharrgarbl

Female character commits grievous crime of inconveniencing other characters, deserves comeuppance. Film at always.

damselfish

@wharrgarbl I did a double-take at the guy saying she deserved to be slapped. Battery, the solution to all life's problems! Dunno why I'm always surprised when dudes have no qualms about talking about striking women, I just expect better from them.

Like, dude. Seriously.

Norrey

Same thing happened with Baby Mama. Male critics were all "No one wants to hear about BABIES and VAGINAS and WIMMIN." And women reviewers were all "This shit is hilarious.".

madge

@Norrey oh man that movie made me laugh so much harder than, like, any other post-SNL POS ever

teebs

@madge Me too. Amy Poehler in Baby Mama (as well as literally anything ever) is so spot-on and funny.

myrna.minkoff

@Norrey
Kate Holbrook: Did you just stick your gum under my coffee table?
Angie Ostrowiski: [nervous] I don't know.
Kate Holbrook: What do you mean, you don't know? You think you're at an Arby's right now?
Angie Ostrowiski: You know what? I wish I was at an Arby's 'cause there's better food and cooler people there!
Kate Holbrook: [looks under the coffee table] Did you stick *all* this gum under here?
Angie Ostrowiski: I don't know! Maybe you stuck some of it under there.
Kate Holbrook: Yeah, actually, you might be right. 'Cause sometimes, when I work a really long day, I like to come home and chew a huge wad of Bubblicious gum and stick it under my reclaimed barnwood coffee table!
Angie Ostrowiski: Bitch, I don't know your life!

miss buenos aires

@myrna.minkoff Just rereading this made me laugh!

Norrey

@myrna.minkoff HAHAHAHAHA. Seriously, Baby Mama is a riot.

Lemonnier

I can't take any movie reviewer whose website looks like a geocities page, seriously. Are you a 13-year-old from 1999?

Decca

@Lemonnier I have been reading tinyluckygenius for years, I love the way it looks! It sometimes feels like I'm peeking Hopper's personal journal. And A+ for "smanging".

evil melis

yes

she has traveled forward in time - a mere island jaunt across the Lake Michigan that is the space-time continuum, to be sure, but a bold and declarative leap forward no less - in order to talk about Greta Gerwig films

what were you even doing as a 13-year-old in 1999, French Liz Lemon muppet

probably being QUILTED out of FELT

I do not know how Muppets are made

evil melis

she has tumbled even further ahead now in time

a brave and lonely 13-year-old, reviewing movies for posterity, who now live and walk and move above our graves while we watch from underneath them, up through the ceiling of our dirt aquarium

everyone she ever knew or loved is dead

wharrgarbl

@Decca I thought that was about Robin Clifford's site? Which genuinely looks fucking terrible?

But I guess at least evil melis is fully operational once more, so carry on.

Decca

@wharrgarbl Oh holy shit you are right. I didn't click on that link. My apologies. *mesmerized*

evil melis

@wharrgarbl Now witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL commenting account!

wharrgarbl

@evil melis It's worth it to lose some ewoks and a kind of crap resolution to a romantic subplot. We were pretty worried after the breakdown in the book thread!

Lemonnier

@Decca I meant the Robin Clifford dude! Jessica Hopper is right on! AAAGGGHHH for me being unclear!

AND SO WHAT IF I'M FELT I DON'T EVEN SEE FABRIC I JUST SEE PUPPETS

I'M FIBER-BLIND

Decca

@Lemonnier Nope, my bad. Everyone carry on, nothing to see here. Except evil melis, of course.

travelmugs

@Decca <3 u Jessica Hopper. Write all of the things.

SarahP

Wait. Wait. What did you say about the Avengers?!

wharrgarbl

@SarahP She spoke heresy about Avengers. Surely we can leave it at that and trust that the slight will be handled by the movie-gods at some future time.

applestoapples

@SarahP I know. I was like, "Jessica, you probably have some good points, so I'm just going to Hulk Smash that sentence in my head and continue on."

maybe partying will help

@wharrgarbl

It IS Thor's Day...

TheBourneApproximation

@SarahP Better than the last four hours of The Avengers?
A) Damn, I wish it was four hours long. It made me happy. :(
B) I may have to skip this, as I am not sure my system can handle the concentrated awesome of something more exciting than The Avengers.

wharrgarbl

@TheBourneApproximation Just get the DVD when it comes out and hit pause every ten minutes to mentally insert five minutes of make-outs.

sarah girl

@wharrgarbl RIGHT?!

oboe-d-amore

@SarahP Seriously. The Avengers was awesome.

collier

@TheBourneApproximation : Then you'll want to also skip the upcoming The Bourne Legacy, Ms Bourne Approximation, which stars preposterously foxy badass Jeremy Renner/Hawkeye.

SarahP

@applestoapples This was my approach. "Must... remain... objective..."

TheBourneApproximation

@collier Aaaaah, danger zone!!

Pocket Witch

@wharrgarbl I'll be in my bunk.

collier

@TheBourneApproximation: SRSLY. Guh. Renner and the Burj Khalifa architecture porn are the two best reasons to own MI Ghost Protocol. Mostly Renner.

you're a kitty!

@SarahP Now I desperately want to see a movie that was better than The Avengers. Somebody wake me up when they make it.

RK Fire

@collier: Jeremy Renner!!

Fiddle dee dee

@collier Got called for jury duty a few weeks back. Defese attorney looked exactly like Renner. Found for the defendant! (Kidding, I was excused from the jury. For staring. Kidding. Maybe.)

Megasus

@maybe partying will help Is it really!? Becuase I literally got Thor in the mail yesterday. Does this mean I need to drop everything* and watch it?

*I am pretty much doing nothing today

you're a kitty!

@Megano! would you like some Tom Hiddleston feels? I have some extra ones lying around.

collier

@RK Fire : JEREMY RENNER. Thought he was cute back in 28 Weeks Later and The Unusuals, but now? All kinds of holy shit whaaaat. He just keeps getting foxier. It is incomprehensible.

@ Fiddle dee dee : That is so wrong. How in the world can they expect you to focus on the proceedings when they're trotting out grade-A eye candy in a suit?

Jessica Hopper@facebook

@RK Fire Jeremy Renner's ab lighting!

Marquise de Morville

@Megano! Thor is out on Netflix, too...

maevemealone

@SarahP I had trouble focusing on the rest of the article because I kept thinking "Maybe she's adopted, just like Loki".

maybe partying will help

@Megano!

YES.

No really, the answer is yes whenever the question is SHOULD I WATCH THOR. PS: it's now on Netflix Instant, for those who have that!!

Kate Kane

@SarahP Right? I'm innocently reading, thinking this sounds like an interesting movie and then WRONGFUL AVENGERS SLANDER. I'm sorry, Jessica Hopper, I did stop reading for a few moments after that.

notfromvenus

@wharrgarbl YES. Or to ogle Chris Evan's ass in that tiiiiiight outfit. Somehow I noticed it more in the Avengers than when he got his whole own movie, lol.

applestoapples

"Comments were made ‘round the internet alleging that the movie was just plain shitty and they were playing the sexism card as an excuse."
should be turned into
"Comments made round the internet were sexist and they were playing the 'shitty movie' card as an excuse."

wharrgarbl

@applestoapples Great lady-movie: "It was okay, I guess." Okay lady-movie: "Oh god, that was terrible." Terrible lady-movie: "This is why women shouldn't be allowed to vote."

PistolPackinMama

Having seen how "it's good/relevant/meaningful but not that good" discussions about middle of the road lady-art have gone around here in the past...

...

...

...

it's not a surprise this is what the reaction has been.
Also, don't forget we've also had Bridesmaids, which is good because it has gross out bro humor as well as romance stories, so you know, women can be funny in the way male critics want so why are they bothering with this funny in some other way thing anyhow?

This is me, being unsurprised:

http://lightsallaround.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/woman-bored-at-work.jpg **

**Note this is not really me.

qpdbqp

@PistolPackinMama it's not me either but it's how i FEEL

PistolPackinMama

@qpdbqp Woman Bored Alone With Patriarchy.

Daisy Razor

It wasn’t the best movie ever made, but it was better than the last four hours of The Avengers, so there is that.

Sorry, you lost me there.

stonefruit

@Daisy Razor I recommend you just read over that sentence. Like in some books you skip whole chunks because who the eff cares about casualty numbers at specific battles during Napoleon's campaign in Russia or whatever.

Stavromula Beta

@Daisy Razor Yeah, that's where I stopped reading.

Annie Murphy@facebook

Now I just want to see it for the shirtliss Holder. He is the only reason I was able to make it through all of The Killing. That mannnnnn. He's so not my type but somehow I want to love him and be with him and have him kiss me on the eyelids.

Jane Marie

@Annie Murphy@facebook he does that in the movie, the kissing eyelids part. i think. i could have hallucinated it.

Annie Murphy@facebook

@Jane Marie Yes! Now I can do something intricate and creepy, like get a still of that shot and superimpose my face on to her face so that he'll be kissing my eyelids. Yes.

stuffisthings

@Annie Murphy@facebook
[My image joke didn't work. Also, on an unrelated note, I'm kinda bored at work right now.]

stonefruit

@Annie Murphy@facebook My mom couldn't get past Holder's haggard makeup job on The Killing to appreciate the gorgeousness, so I sent her a picture of Joel Kinnaman in Lola Versus. Her reply: "Yes, he is beautiful. Shocking!"

TheBourneApproximation

"Isn’t that what we want in a movie, a little nuanced liberation and fewer shopping montages? "

Eh, what I personally want in a movie is Prometheus, but not horribly shitty. I mean, a version of Prometheus with realistic female characters? Take my money! Or any realistic characters. Or characters resembling human beings. Hey, it already had some (spoilers!) pro-choice overtones. Ugh why do movies suck so much right now.

(In all seriousness, very nice mildly infuriating article.)

Decca

@TheBourneApproximation I would gladly watch a edited version of Prometheus that was just SPOILER ALERT! a loop of Michael Fassbender's head getting zipped up into a gym bag, with nothing else.

TheBourneApproximation

@Decca FILM NEEDS MOAR ROBO-FASSBENDER.

JadedStone

@TheBourneApproximation It's funny that the robot was the only interesting character.

PistolPackinMama

@TheBourneApproximation I <3 your username. One of my favorite Pass Boring Time In Line activities is making up Unlikely Bourne Titles.

The Bourne Ineptitude
The Bourne Malfeasance
The Bourne Mediation

unserweite...

lisma

@Decca I loved that when Noomi Rapace apologized for zipping him up into a bag, he was so pleasant about it. Just loved him basically.

Judith Slutler

@PistolPackinMama *ahem* und so weiter *ahem*

TheBourneApproximation

@PistolPackinMama Thanks! I would totally see The Bourne Ineptitude.
Though I'm afraid The Bourne Approximation would not make a very good topic for a movie.

skyslang

@TheBourneApproximation THANK YOU! I was so disappointed with Prometheus. It was so close to the movie I really, desperately want to see. Well, maybe not that close. The IDEA was awesome. The EXECUTION sucked. Except for the special effects. And, yes, David.

Danzig!

@TheBourneApproximation Watch Aliens again!

PistolPackinMama

@Emanuelle Cunt

Number I of years I have been making that German language mistake:

(counting)

At least 25.

Not kidding. Had only ever heard it used in conversation, never seen it written in a sentence. I suppose a mildly sarcastic etc etc etc is not really something you learn in Wiesbaden American Middle School, is it?

Thanks for the correction!

cuminafterall

@PistolPackinMama Was your school attached to Hainerberg Elementary?? If so, we attended school in the same building. Probably some years apart. But still.

PistolPackinMama

@cuminafterall Why, yes it was! AHHHHHH! WAMS fistbump.

stuffisthings

@TheBourneApproximation So what you want is Alien, basically?

purefog

@PistolPackinMama Er. . ."und so weiter"?

stuffisthings

@Danzig! Yeah seriously, I just watched Alien again the other day after reading the reviews of Prometheus and it is SO. GOOD. Plus it avoids most of the sci-fi cliches that movies continue to blunder into to this day. The way they handle exposition, for example, is beautiful. (As is the character who keeps shouting "WHY DON'T YOU JUST FREEZE HIM?" and getting ignored.)

PistolPackinMama

@purefog Yeah, got that correction. Thanks!

wharrgarbl

@stuffisthings I will <3 Alien forever for going and getting Giger to do their creature designs. How you solve the "now you've seen the monster" deflation: make that sucker creepy as fuck. O'Bannon got that--and that it needed to be a horror movie--right, at least.

Slapfight

@wharrgarbl I heart the whole concept of Alien(s) so hard. So glad O'Bannon decided to super feminist with it. ALL THE HEARTS!

wharrgarbl

@Slapfight There's the pacing, too. Like, it's great to have slow, stately, meditative movies, but if you're going for horror, you can't let the audience off the hook for long enough that they stop really caring about anything you're showing them. *cough* Cronenberg. *cough*

Reginal T. Squirge

Nice to see Germain subscribes to the Suga Free school of inter-gender relations.

redheaded&crazy

I also thought the Avengers was too long.

wharrgarbl

@redheaded&crazie Look, if it was any shorter, some of New York besides that one shawarma joint would have been left standing. I don't know what you want from them.

TheUnchosenOne

@redheaded&crazie That is because it was, and a lot of the bloat was in the big action set piece.

Danzig!

@redheaded&crazie See I was really expecting some Spiderman 3 shit, like, too many characters and not enough time to go around despite there being so much time, but I think Whedon & Co handled it all pretty deftly and none of the leads (save for maybe Cap) felt terribly neglected.

But yeah, still, cut out Hawkeye and Black Widow (okay I get it, Scarlett has a butt, stop with the butt shots come on) and you wouldn't lose much.

redheaded&crazy

@Danzig! Sometimes I wonder if me talking about having a short attention span creates a vicious cycle where, the more I expect I will have a short attention span, the shorter it gets.

But yeah, my legs started fidgeting at least halfway through this movie and they did not stop. Waiting for the shwarma shop post-credits was torturous.

wharrgarbl

@Danzig! ...except for like, the one friend Loki has, ever, and the one person who accomplished much beyond face-punching and yelling at Nick Fury for being a dick. Though I guess ditching the person who figures out how to stop the alien horde would accomplish a 4-hour movie, so maybe?

PistolPackinMama

@wharrgarbl ... I am so full of THOUGHTS and COMMENTS right now I can't form a coherent sentence. But somehow, I think you know exactly what is going through my mind.

Also, why not just ditch Captain America, since he is neglected anyway, and half his shots are of his wholesome hotness. We get that he is wholesome and hot. Save the line about "hey I got that one" and stick it in the credits after the shwarma part and you'd be good to go.

No? No one up for that? Okay.

Danzig!

@wharrgarbl I really disliked the way they handled Black Widow, honestly. The whole "feminine wiles" angle was obvious and robbed of whatever potency it might have had by the fact that Black Widow's the only female character in the film, save for the SHIELD lady who's just kind of there. They hammer that point to shore up bigger deficiencies, you know? And could we get an actual female superhero who's going to get her own vehicle (not really holding my breath on a Black Widow flick)? I think Whedon gets a little too much credit for that sort of stuff in general.

Danzig!

@wharrgarbl More to the point, both Hawkeye and Black Widow felt out of place because they're ostensibly brought to the fore in The Avengers despite having only ever existed as supporting characters in other Marvel films, and their plotline felt like a B-story.

wharrgarbl

@Danzig! ...you mean the SHIELD lady who's actually a T-X unit in disguise? Who actually gets to kick more ass than Fury? I was actually really happy with her. Though "feminine wiles" usually refers more to tit-hypnosis rather than "I think you're a stupid bitch who's in over your head and therefore will tell you all of my plans and now you are ruining everything with the information I just gave you goddammit." So I wasn't too unhappy with that, either.

Danzig!

@wharrgarbl

She didn't ruin everything with the info she was given, though. She went into the lab and told everyone and it didn't land for some reason and then instead of loudly insisting that shit was about to go down she promptly forgot about it and joined in the contrived bickering, right before Loki's plan came to fruition. So it was sort of an empty gesture on the part of the writers. We couldn't just have Black Widow actually stop Loki.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree!

wharrgarbl

@Danzig! If you're less willing to roll with Hawkeye, Black Widow, Fury, and Coulson because they're supporting characters from other films, I think that's probably a personal preference that's there or not. I personally had a few moments where it was hard to just go with it and not try to figure out if Ruffalo's Banner was supposed to have any relation to the Eric Bana Banner and/or the Edward Norton Banner (I don't think so?).

I just find it a little difficult to credit all the people who complain about Black Widow not having done anything in the film with having watched the same film as I did. Is there a cut where she just unzips her top over and over again floating around in some cities?

wharrgarbl

@Danzig! "I guess we'll have to agree to disagree!"

Fair enough.

you're a kitty!

@wharrgarbl I read a fantastic article a little ways back about the expectations people had going in about Black Widow, and how it may have affected the reviews. Here it is: http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2012/05/scarlett-johansson-in-a-gorilla-suit-the-superhero-mundanes-dont-see.html

you're a kitty!

@Danzig! See, I was the opposite — I expected to be neutral at best on that character, and she ended up being one of my favorites in the film (similar reaction, by the way, to Bruce Banner. Who saw that one coming?). As I've said elsewhere, one of my favorite moments of the whole movie is when she’s sitting on the floor in the rubble, literally shaking in terror. The call comes over the com for agents, and with barely a moment of pause, she volunteers. That’s badassery right there. You have successfully sold me on that character, because she's not just a standard action drone, she's a person having a reasonable reaction to an unreasonable situation.

The way I see it, the first-order, traditional female character is afraid of everything and needs to be rescued. The second-order, FEMINISM! character is a robotic badass, and we call that progress. But it takes a whole other level of actual comfort with women as complex human beings to say, you know what? She’s afraid. And she’s getting shit done anyway.

Danzig!

@wharrgarbl I think Ruffalo is supposed to be Norton's Hulk. One assumes they'll be giving Ruff his own movie soon so we'll see how it goes (probably not well, all things considered). Don't know what Marvel was thinking, taking Norton on. Guy has a reputation.

you're a kitty!

@Danzig! Can we just vote for Ruffalo in Iron Man 3? Science bros!

Danzig!

@you're a kitty! A new era of slashfic, I'm telling you

TheUnchosenOne

@Danzig! I am almost certain the "contrived bickering" was part of Loki's plot, given the prominence of the Tesseract-staff during the scene and the cut to Loki smirking during it.

Danzig!

@you're a kitty! That's a valid take, I wasn't quite clear what was going in that scene when I saw it, tbh, I thought Hulk had maybe wounded her? But that makes more sense.

Danzig!

@TheUnchosenOne Hadn't thought of that - I had just assumed that the mind-control stuff only worked when he poked somebody with the stick

collier

@PistolPackinMama : For real. Captain America is the only one I really wasn't into at all. I *expected* not be into Banner/Hulk, as that's never been a thing for me in general and I'm not super big on Ruffalo. I would've much rather they ditched Cap'n Spandex if they were going to ditch anybody.

Also, I have to mention -- having zero Hemsworth experience pre-Thor, oh my god. He looks the part, but I was totally not expecting him to be funny. Dude can deliver some serious deadpan. "He is adopted...?".

wharrgarbl

@Danzig! He's the god of mischief, so we can safely assume he doesn't need to touch people to cause it. Though watching it not work on Stark's super-powered heart was pretty funny.

@collier Hemsworth-as-Thor is fucking hilarious. The scene in Thor where he tries to get a mount at the petshop.

collier

@wharrgarbl : YES. It's like five seconds long, and I swear it's one of the best scenes in the movie.

joie

@wharrgarbl all this talk of Avengers is making me realize I need to go see Cabin in the Woods at the second run theatre near my house simply to stare at Chris Hemsworth because goddamn.

Stavromula Beta

@you're a kitty! That link was very interesting; thanks for sharing!

RK Fire

@Mame Dennis-Pickett-Burnside: Cabin in the Woods is amazing, run, do not walk to the theatre and watch!

LaLoba

@redheaded&crazie It seemed too long because of the complete lack of suspense.

notfromvenus

@you're a kitty! Yes, this. That's such a great bit for her.

And I am the only one that wants a Black Widow & Hawkeye movie? I don't know anything about them comic-wise, but from the movie I can totally see them as like this badass crime-fighting spy duo with boatloads of UST and very dry comedy.

wharrgarbl

@notfromvenus It seems like half of tumblr desperately wants a From Budapest with Love movie, which doesn't seem unreasonable. If we've got room for thirty Snow White remixes in one year, we've got room for a Black Widow & Hawkeye movie.

you're a kitty!

@wharrgarbl Truth, but I really want Whedon to write it. It would be so easy for the Hollywood machine to screw up.
Also, I realize how very much this puts me in the minority, but I kind of wish they could do that movie with Natasha and Clint being friends with an intense shared history, and nothing romantic going on at all. That was the vibe I got from them in Avengers, but I don't think that sort of movie gets made.

wharrgarbl

@you're a kitty! They are very much bros. I actually think we're doing a little better on the "they get to stay bros" front in action movies than we used to be, so they could probably make a movie where they stayed bros. It seems like there are a lot more action movies where they don't go all "I thought Christmas only came once a year" at the end, and the relationship either stays ambiguous or is pretty solidly platonic. Like how Mission Most Impossible didn't try to hook Carter up with anyone even though Murdered Boyfriend bought it early enough that they could have tried if they'd felt it absolutely necessary.

you're a kitty!

@wharrgarbl I'll admit that I was really impressed at how the latest Sherlock Holmes movie managed to have a competent female character who wasn't motivated by romantic love AND never makes out with anyone or wears skimpy clothing. Progress? (note: not necessarily adverse to makeouts or skimpy clothing, just sad about how their lack is so noteworthy)

you're a kitty!

@you're a kitty! uh, "averse."

wharrgarbl

@you're a kitty! Make-outs and skimpy clothing are wonderful things, but they are not the only things, and it would be nice if they occurred where sensible and were not shoe-horned into stories and especially were not shoe-horned into stories to defang the uncomfortable implication that dudes and ladies might just be okay hanging out and being friends.

you're a kitty!

@wharrgarbl In-deed.

roadtrips

This was great! It would be lovely to read similarly critical film/media articles here (I also really liked the one about Girls a while back).

Judith Slutler

I was like "oh please, calm down movie people" and then, those review excerpts. Holy fuck why are VIOLENT FANTASIES the default response to a female character who's a little flaky and engages in a bit of assholery???

okaycrochet

@Emmanuelle Cunt This! I am reminded of what the brilliant AHP said regarding Dorothy Dandridge: basically, the film industry had a built-in caveat that if a women is sexy/dangerous in a movie, she had better die at the end. Or go blind or contract polio or something. Silly us, for thinking that would stop in the 50's!

El Knid

@okaycrochet Actually, the film industry did have a built-in caveat that applied to all characters who were dangerous or licentious. It was called the Motion Picture Production Code, an attempt by Hollywood studios to ward off government censorship by promising to self-police. Eventually it morphed into the MPAA system we use today. Under it, no character in a movie could ever get away with a crime or wrongdoing (though comedies were given a little more license.) This is why so many of the classic Films Noire of the period ended with just about every character miserable -- if the protagonists were tempted/forced by the events of the film to stray from the straight and narrow, they couldn't get away with it in the end. What's funny is that being subjected to this type of restriction inspired some of the very best cinema Hollywood has ever made.

Trilby

Have not seen it yet, but I love Greta and can't imagine it sucks as bad as reviewers would have us believe. (Men!) Is it worse than the hundreds of rom-coms made by Jennifer Aniston? I'm guessing no. Probably the movie had the misfortune to come out in the season of Girls, as so many have observed. And Greta's wonderful to watch in anything.

Danzig!

@Trilby Speaking of Greta, Greenberg made me real mad. I guess that's the point though

travelmugs

@Danzig! And Damsels in Distress was terrible.

frigwiggin

Psst--the link to IMDB for "What's Your Number?" is broken.

frigwiggin

@frigwiggin Also, this IS what I want from movies. Movies that may not be the best ever, but which still break the mold! Better than movies that may not be the best ever but still conform to the mold. (Oh, heck, I guess I shouldn't bash on formulaic movies--sometimes they're just what you want, with the swell of the triumphant music and the brave, exhausted underdogs cheering.)

Danzig!

@frigwiggin Waitresssss watch itttt

Jane Marie

@frigwiggin thank you! fixed :)

bitzyboozer

It's really funny to see this kind of critical disdain heaped on a movie like this, or a show like Girls. Dudes just seriously flip the hell out when confronted with an artistic expression of something that is not directly relatable to their experience. Meanwhile women are conditioned their whole lives to just accept it.

Danzig!

@bitzyboozer Whoa hey I don't know if you got the memo but THERE IS NO MORE TALKING ABOUT GIRLS

LornaLoo

@bitzyboozer THIS.

City_Dater

@bitzyboozer

Yes, exactly. I believe JK Rowling mentioned somewhere that the reason she chose to make Harry Potter a boy, rather than "Harriet Potter" is that girls will read a book with a male protagonist but boys won't read a book about a girl. No matter how far we progress in the freaking world, the default "universal" is male.

Midie

@City_Dater

That's crappy of Rowling. At least Lisbeth Salander and Katniss Everdeen are kicking the shit out of that trend.

City_Dater

@Midie

JK Rowling didn't make the world; she just wanted to sell A LOT of books in it. And she was probably right.

Midie

@City_Dater
Sure. She's more a business woman than an artist.

entangled

@City_Dater I've also heard that the reason she wrote them as JK Rowling rather than as Joanne Rowling was so that the author's gender would be ambiguous as to not turn off boys.

stonefruit

@arrr starr yeah, except my memory of that is that her publisher straight-up instructed her to do that. But, much respect to her for working in a Mitford/Communist Party in the 50s reference for a main(ish) (perhaps central is a better word?) character.

timesnewroman

No, Rowling has stated a few times that Harry was a boy because he just was - the character and the basic story came to her like that. She has however discussed the whole boy/girl thing and I think she's admitted that it occurred to her. She's talked about how the story would have been different if he'd been a Harriet. And her publisher definitely told her to do the ambiguous name thing, she doesn't actually have a middle name, the K for Kathleen is made up.

Midie

@timesnewroman
Thanks for clearing that up!

timesnewroman

@Midie Haha, I have a lot of love for Rowling!!

Danzig!

Pretty sure Waitress is on Netflix, watch that. I'll see your Swedish (?) dude and raise you a prime-cut Nathan Fillion

*"Pretty sure... I think"? Get it together, Danzig!.

wharrgarbl

@Danzig! They're the things we say when we're too lazy to check and make sure!

Danzig!

@wharrgarbl But I already have four tabs open wah wahhh

Atheist Watermelon

@Danzig! mmmmmmmmmmmmmm nathan fillionnnnnnn

wharrgarbl

@Danzig! Also, it's Netflix, so it might not still be there tomorrow.

teebs

@Danzig! Waitress is such a good movie! Every time I get a girlfriend to watch it , they are skeptical, but then we watch it and then cryyy and hold each other because it's so good.

anachronistique

@teebs The first thing I did after watching that movie was go make a peach pie.

Oh, squiggles

I really like The Avengers, and this movie sounds kinda blah to me. But, hell yes those reviews were sexist. Being stoned by a mob for sleeping around? What year is this? Why is this sexist backslide happening? I thought we were making progress people!

hopelessshade

@Awesomely Nonfunctional We MADE progress, so we don't need it anymore. _obviously_

I wish I was making this up.

Midie

@Awesomely Nonfunctional
Maybe the progress has taken the form that we are better able to recognize and challenge sexism now, even while people continue to slide back into old habits of thinking.

Slapfight

@hopelessshade Why can't we just be happy with the crumbs occasionally thrown to us?

fondue with cheddar

@hopelessshade Yeah, and we're also living in a post-racial world. Apparently all our societal problems have been solved!

acefreakly

Ehhhh.... "it's not as bad as ___" isn't good enough to make me want to shell out $$ and my time to watch this movie. Some of the reviews just sound lazy, but maybe, just maybe, this movie isn't really very interesting or worth watching.

PistolPackinMama

@acefreakly Well, that's okay. I mean, whatever. Meh movies are made all the time.

It's the feeling the need to express this lack of worth watching-ness in the terms some reviewers have chosen that is a real problem for me.

wharrgarbl

@PistolPackinMama Yeah, it's like any of Diablo Cody's stuff. People make dude-centered okay-I-guess crap all the time without half the reviewers on the planet feeling the same mysteriously intense and sudden need to kill it with fire.

Hell, does anyone remember when the Aqua Teen Hunger Force movie came out? And how it is literally incomprehensible to someone without some background in what's going on? And how almost all the reviewers who didn't have that more or less contented themselves with copping to it and saying that everyone else at the showing seemed to be having a good time? Instead of declaring that they didn't really care for it and therefore the directors needed to be drug out into the street and shot in front of their families?

PistolPackinMama

@wharrgarbl No, as a matter of fact, I don't remember it in the least.

...

...

...

Which I think is kind of telling, no?

wharrgarbl

@PistolPackinMama I only remember it because I found it a little remarkable that a) so papers and publications sent people to review it, b) that so many then ran the "I don't know, man" columns that resulted, and c) they were all different versions of "I don't know what the fuck I just watched, but everyone else was having fun."

I strongly suspect that had it been surreal humor involving sparkly ponies and pink backgrounds, the reaction would not have been so generous.

Ham Snadwich

@wharrgarbl - You know I'm sure I saw it, but I have absolutely no memory of it.

Slapfight

@wharrgarbl Only semi-related: do you also remember the marketing campaign where a couple of dudes rewired traffic lights to feature Igignot and people flipped out thinking it was a terrorist attack? I can't believe no one was clued in quicker on the fact that they were just cartoon characters.
But agreed on your point.

wharrgarbl

@Slapfight I remember the incident where they put lite-brites with Mooninites on them on that bridge in...Boston? and Homeland Security got called because zomg lite-brites on a bridge! And then they got arrested and took a post-bail press-conference where they flatly refused to answer any questions that weren't about '70s hair-styles and infuriated everyone who really, really wanted them to validate the mass pants-wetting about lite-brites on a bridge. If the rewired traffic lights happened right before DHS went on plaid-alert because of the children's toys, I probably got distracted by the haircut press conference.

Slapfight

@wharrgarbl You're right! It was Lite Brites. I just remember it was really ridiculously over-reacting craziness over something silly. I can't believe it escalated so far before they were like "Oh. It's a cartoon."
Still, great PR move.

redheaded&crazy

My favourite romcom that breaks the romcom mold is It's Complicated. Alec Baldwin, Meryl Streep, and Steve Martin make the dreamiest love triangle.

wharrgarbl

@redheaded&crazie I'm pretty fond of Down with Love, because Ewan McGregor.

Danzig!

@redheaded&crazie Worth seeing for Alec's big old belly alone

purefog

@redheaded&crazie For offbeat romcoms, howzabout some "Happy Accidents" with Marisa Tomei and Vincent d'Onofrio?

Ham Snadwich

@redheaded&crazie - I don't know, I saw the beginning of that when I was doing jury duty and it made me want to stab my eyes out. Of course I had been primed by a family-friendly, non-90s Martin Lawrence movie, so it's possible it was better than I remember.

sudden but inevitable betrayal

@redheaded&crazie I love that movie. Love it, love it, love it. Best rom-com ever!

Harriet Kierkegaard@facebook

I saw Lola Versus. I liked it. I totally agree with this defense of the film: it's entertaining and harmless and plus also Greta Gerwig, who gets better with every film.

Rock and Roll Ken Doll

@Harriet Kierkegaard@facebook
Yes! I basically want people to tell me this is good, because I want everything with Greta Gerwig to continue to be good.

stuffisthings

OK, I'm not really a fan of Girls, or probably this movie, but can we please take the rule about "only one quirky single lady show/movie" and have it be about superheroes instead?

I mean, god damn, you look at the posters at any multiplex and it's like you've wandered inside the brain of a 13 year old boy in 1987.

Danzig!

@stuffisthings Thankfully that 13-year old boy doesn't read a lot of Frank Miller

redonion

@stuffisthings See I want movies about women AND superheroes, so I think we should apply that rule to Adam Sandler. Who is maxed out.

wharrgarbl

@stuffisthings Nooooooooooooo!

Though I wouldn't mind a rule that said if you're going to make like Expendables 2, you must also release a film with a cast of 50%+ minority actors that doesn't involve Carlos Mencia or Eddie Murphy and isn't just a remake of some random-ass white-cast comedy.

stuffisthings

@redonion But how many hours of superhero movie have been produced in the last decade? 10,000 or so? Think of this: each one of those fucking things costs like $300 million to make and market, and then people go and spend $700, $800 million to watch it. That's like, at least several Apollo programs worth of our society's resources poured into making superhero content. You could run the New York Times, National Public Radio, and every surviving book publisher for a year on just what it cost to market the superhero films that are currently in theaters.

No more superheros! Or Adam Sandler. We can agree on that one.

Danzig!

@wharrgarbl I get what you're saying but Terry Crews has the screen presence of 15 dudes so it almost balances out. Best get Mr. T (like they were originally going to) and Idris Elba and just fire everyone else.

@stuffisthings If it's any consolation, That's My Boy looks like it's bombing pretty hard

wharrgarbl

@Danzig! Shall we all, in unison, ask what the fuck was up with The Spirit, or are we leaving that one down the memory-hole?

ETA: I was mostly basing that on The Expendables having in no way been good enough to warrant a theatrically-released sequel, and yet here we are. See also, "They made a movie of Battleship? The board game?"

stuffisthings

@wharrgarbl Wait, does this mean they're canceling Tyler Perry's The Ice Storm?

wharrgarbl

@stuffisthings Oh my god.

Danzig!

@wharrgarbl I think that was right after 300 came out. Guess everybody decided to forget about Robocop 3.

redonion

@stuffisthings Let me qualify that by saying I want good movies about women and good movies about superheroes (which would disqualify not a small number of superhero films from the last decade). More plot than explosions. More critical examination and fewer catch phrases aimed at 13 year olds. Complex characters who want things besides getting their man (all of this goes for movies about women and superheroes).

The bottom line is the story. I just want good stories. And I want good stories to be well-received and make enough money for the people behind them to continue to make good stories.

stuffisthings

@redonion But in this ideal world, would the unicorns be allowed inside the theater or would they have to stay outside and watch the rainbow cupcakes?

wharrgarbl

@stuffisthings They're allowed inside, but only to showings of the Harold and Kumar installment that follows Cindy Kim and her sidekick around on their pot-fueled misadventures.

redonion

@stuffisthings In the ideal world, the unicorns would be allowed inside the theater, and they would bring rainbow cupcakes for everyone, which they would all eat happily, and watch good stories.

And then there was no way for me to wrap up this story that didn't involve feces or cupcake orgies. And that is why no one should wish for an ideal world.

redonion

@redonion Also, if we are really talking about an ideal world, while all the unicorns are eating their cupcakes and before the good story starts rolling, the "Let's all go to the movies" dancing candy and popcorn bundles would dance off the screen into my waiting arms, because the second they sashay onto the screen, it is all I can think about.

maybe partying will help

@wharrgarbl

I guess I have to defend Expendables 2. Because goddamn Hollywood, you are so good at releasing things I want to see near my birthday!

I mean obviously the film is not defensible, but I really love terrible action films, and THIS ONE HAS JEAN CLAUDE IN IT.

wharrgarbl

@maybe partying will help I will marginally withhold judgment on Expendables 2, not having seen it yet, but at the same time I cannot be pried from my opinion that Expendables 1 did nothing to deserve a theatrically-released sequel. It just didn't.

maybe partying will help

@wharrgarbl

It really didn't. In fact, my headcanon is that the only thing that made anyone say, HEY WE NEED ANOTHER EXPENDABLES is that Jean Claude Van Damme WASN'T in the first one. Which: valid.

Chesty LaRue

@maybe partying will help I hope you've seen JCVD

maybe partying will help

@Chesty LaRue

Oh my, yes. Basically you can't live in my house if you don't acknowledge the Muscles from Brussels. :B

Chesty LaRue

@maybe partying will help The scene with the cigarette; breathtaking.

DrFeelGood

@redonion I just saw "Safety Not Guaranteed" and it is the best meld of soft sci-fi, romance and humor that I have seen in a long time. I highly recommend it!

redonion

@DrFeelGood That is on my list and now it shall move to the top! Thanks for the recommendation.

purefog

@ Danzig or Henry Miller

Danzig!

@purefog Or Norman Mailer

stuffisthings

@Danzig! Movies of any of those authors' books are explicitly allowed under my regime. Especially Henry Miller.

Atheist Watermelon

@stuffisthings i'm not 100% sure i want to see a movie version of tropic of cancer...

stuffisthings

@LittleBookofCalm Oh yeah you do.

"Imagine Tropic of Cancer, but set in contemporary New York. Oh and with a female protagonist.

I call it: Girls!"

stuffisthings

@stuffisthings "Now imagine HBO's Girls, but set in the 1920s. Oh, and with a male protagonist.

I call it: Tropic of Capricorn."

filthyunicorn

@purefog But there is one! From the 70's, starring Rip Torn. It's not as entertaining as you'd expect...

filthyunicorn

@LittleBookofCalm oops, that last comment was for you.

Atheist Watermelon

@filthyunicorn rip torn? hmm... tell me it was directed by ken russell and i'd totally watch it

sprayfaint

Ahhhh, can I get a spoiler alert next time?! I mean I know it's a romcom, but STILL...

stuffisthings

@sprayfaint Everything is fine in the end, and she doesn't end up with the douchebag.

There, I just pre-spoiled every romcom that ever was or will be made for you.

wharrgarbl

@stuffisthings That's not true, though. There are lots of romcoms where she winds up with the douchebag!

tales

@wharrgarbl Most of them, in fact.

katerbland

As a professional film critic who is also DING DING a twentysomething lady, LOLA VERSUS should have rung my bells. It didn't. I didn't hate it and I have no ire towards it, but it's not original in the slightest.

And, yeah, I made a mention of GIRLS, too. So sue me.

http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/reviews/review-lola-versus-kerbl.php

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

@katerbland But you didn't suggest that we beat Lola for her selfish transgressions against other humans.

katerbland

@I'm Right on Top of that, Rose Indeed, I did not! And, wow, those are some nuttybar comments.

I'm Right on Top of that, Rose

@katerbland I like to think you didn't mention it because you're a twentysomething lady and we are awesome at not suggesting we kill other ladies!

ismymiddlename

Ok, so I saw Lola Versus last week at a preview screening, and I actually really liked it! I wasn't expecting to (I didn't really know what to expect, to be honest), but it was entertaining and not overly precious and the ending was great. The characters are mainly privileged white folks, but that's true of movies generally, and aside from that it was one of the more relatable rom-coms I've seen. I don't get all the vitriol about it on the interwebs.

LaLoba

@ismymiddlename I'm glad you liked it. I have been a huge fan of Greta Gerwig ever since I saw her in a quirky little movie called "Hannah Takes the Stairs" several years ago. For all I know that movie may not have been "little" at all but no one I know has ever heard of it. Anyway I have followed her work since then and am really happy to see her being successful.

And I loved every goddamn second of Damsels in Distress. Whit Stillman!!!!

fondue with cheddar

Does anyone else have a certain Aretha Franklin song stuck in their head?

Miss Maszkerádi

YOU GUYS THIS IS OFF TOPIC BUT I HAVEN'T SEEN THE AVENGERS YET. Should I? Post-haste?

Nicole Cliffe

I mean, I loved it, but I also spend a lot of time pretending I'm Cobie Smulders.

wharrgarbl

@CountessMaritza Yes, do it, do it now. (If you like superhero movies. I have known a few people who don't like superhero movies that did not wind up with a massive superhero awakening because of this and felt a little let down by the hype.)

frankcampo

So I know this is off topic and has nothing to do with this article, but...

I can't believe anyone lets Jessica Hopper write for them anymore after she was caught red-handed fabricating a quote out of whole cloth in order to accuse Stephin Merritt of racism.

If that's not a blacklistable offense then journalism is truly dead.

Ardele Lister@facebook

hey.. you are funny and smart and i really appreciate what you said about lola versus, and the commotion surrounding it. i am a tiny bit biased. yes, i'm zoe's MOM! but wanted to say it's a pleasure to read you. and the comments following the article also made me laugh, and god, it's good to laugh.

twinkiesandwine

Oof. Well, I missed this post and probably no one will see this, but I saw the film about a month ago at the Seattle Intl Film Fest and Daryl Wein and Zoe Lister-Jones were both at the screening and did a Q&A afterwards, which I recorded. I loved the movie, especially seeing a female protagonist who lives and tries and fucks up and alienates the people around her and then has to figure out what kind of person they are after this crucible.

Also, I talked to them very briefly myself after the film and they didn't freak out when I told them I related to Lola because of having gone crazy this last year. So that's nice.

1963248500@twitter

to dump him to win his love anyway. If you dump him and he then decides to be with you instead of living with his ex and dating other people, you may be onto something. If not, maybe you can make a go of it with someone else you’re seeing. indoor dog fence diy

1963248500@twitter

Jessica Hopper write for them anymore after she was caught red-handed fabricating a quote out of whole cloth in order to accuse Stephin Merritt of racism. mountain house

bill.marks

r she was caught red-handed fabricating a quote out of whole cloth in order to accuse Stephin Merritt of racism. rent a tent

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