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Wednesday, April 11, 2012

286

Employee Discount

Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. Except if the box is clearly labelled. Or if your box is not clearly labelled, there's probably a little pamphlet explaining what kind of chocolate said box contains. So really, life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get if you can't read, or are blind and there is no Braille on the box. In which case, who is giving you this box of unmarked chocolates? They obviously don't know you very well, otherwise they would have gotten the dark chocolate truffles. Some stranger is giving you candy. I think we all know what the saying about that one is. But hey, candy is candy, so I'm not going to judge you. You know what I am going to judge you for, though? Trying to tell me that getting a Brazilian "isn't that bad" and that "you get used to it after a while."

I work in a spa. It's a full-service spa, so we do anything from massages to facials to waxing. All kinds of waxing. (We used to have one boy who worked among all us ladies, and I always thought one of his most charming qualities was his ability to, in complete seriousness and with 100% detailed accuracy, explain the different types of vagina waxings to inquiring ladies.) One of the perks of working in the spa is that we get stuff terrifically cheap. I like money, and I like when there is more of it in my bank account. So it just seemed to make sense that when I decided that I was going to dive head first into this Brazilian business that I would do so at work. You might think differently, but the idea of voluntarily paying $60+ to have someone torture me sounded ridiculous.

The backstory to this is that I had started seeing this guy, and I liked him, and much to my chagrin his grooming preferences were right down to the wood. For a while I had really hoped that all men shared Hank Moody's point of view on that subject, but this time I was out of luck.

You guys, I know. I know!

You're likely screaming at me "Girl, tell me you didn't torture your ladies' parts just because some juicebox made you feel like that's the only way he'd be taking a ride downtown to the pink taco stand? When will the jerkcircus end!?!”

Yeah, I totally did it for that reason. It was in those first few months when you meet someone who seems to have a lot in common with you, and they make you laugh, and they seem suspiciously human, and you think you might actually really like this person ... and then a few months after, you learn that they actually have the emotional intelligence of a six-year-old, can't handle stress, and when they do get stressed they turn into a selfish, bratty little kid that hurls mean comments at you for asking if they want to come watch The Voice in a little bit and that it's your fault for making them so upset. Hahahahahaha! What?

Okay, back to our vagine waxing story. So I decided to just book myself in for the Brazilian a few days out. Because I was in the books at work, my coworkers had seen the appointment scheduled and were strangely excited for me. I loved that my best friend was fantastically hyped for me, because to be honest, I was not at all. She wanted me to tell her all about it. She is maybe one of the nicest people you will ever meet, and wonderful in that way where no matter what's going on she is ridiculously supportive and excited for you. Just so that you know what I'm talking about, our staff washrooms at work are also where our change rooms are. It's a tiny shoebox of a room, and with people always on call there is little to no privacy. For this reason I'm usually an at-home pooper type of person, but one time my colon was all like "I quit this bitch," and I had no choice. I walk into the change room and there is my friend. There really was no time for subtleties, so I had to be blunt, "Angie, I'm just going to be direct. You probably don't want to be in here in the next few minutes." Her response? "Oh, that's no problem! I'm just really glad to hear that you're staying regular!" You see? Wonderful.

Cut to B-Day. I'm not going to lie, it's a little weird to be in a room where your coworker is asking you to hold your labia a certain way, but whatever. That very quickly became the last thing I was worried about. I've had regular bikini waxes before, and they're a whole different ballgame. They're like a nap on a soft, white, fluffy cloud that also gently massages you and soothingly sings you Enya songs, compared to Brazilians. Can we talk about the pain? THE PAIN! Holy fuck. Seriously, anyone who tries to tell you that the pain isn't that bad can go fist themselves. I consider myself to have a fairly good pain threshold, but I felt like I'd just been in a horrific car accident — my nerves were shot, all my patience was gone, and I was in shock. The worst part was it didn't stop hurting! It was like hundreds of tiny, very aggressive, and horribly angry piranhas were continuing to dig their razor sharp teeth in to my whole general groin region. FOR HOURS!! I was sore for days. That's not an exaggeration. I couldn't sit.

Now, because I had this done at work, everyone and their mother knew about it and wanted to know how it went (because I think when you wax lady parts everyday, and some of them happen to belong to your coworkers, secrets and privacy pretty much go out the window). A few days later we had a little work party at a nearby restaurant. You should know that it wasn't as if we were all standing around having some beers with music playing in the background. Nope. This was a sit-down dinner, everyone from work gathered around a table with their husbands and partners. The topic somehow turned to waxing, and then my boss, our spa director, looked at me and this is pretty much how it went:

Boss Lady: Oh! Natalie, you had a Brazilian the other day, how did that go?

Me: I'm not going to lie, it was pretty traumatic. It's a little uncomfortable to sit right now. I was not prepared for that.

Other Boss Lady: Oh right, that was your first one!

Boss Lady: Ever?

Me: Ever.

Other Boss Lady: Good for you Natalie! Nice job! Let's give Natalie a round of applause, that's big deal!

Boss Lady: Yeeeah buddy!!

And then the whole table gave me a big round of hearty applause and loud cheers.

And now here we are. The best/last time I had a Brazilian. Now where is my goddamn chocolate?

Natalie Bell is completely comfortable taking candy from strangers. So long as it is not the cheap kind. Rude.

286 Comments / Post A Comment

nate@twitter

REAL TALK: "I'd like you to tear out all your pubic hair with wax" isn't a grooming preference, it's a personality flaw.

PistolPackinMama

@nate@twitter ALL THAT AND MORE OMG.

staircases

@nate@twitter The thing that kills me about all of this is the use of the word preference. Like it's no more than a passing whimsy that I voluntarily set my labia aflame.

nate@twitter

@staircases "Honey, I like it when your face gets red like that, so I'm going to go ahead and punch you in the testicles."

wharrgarbl

@staircases It's an elision of people who actually do prefer bare genitals and appreciate the lack of hair but aren't going to push it if the genital-owner doesn't roll that way because really, who does that, and people for whom it is more of a requirement, but saying "requirement" makes them sound like assholes, and god forbid they stray into sounding-like-asshole territory even as they're pouting and ridiculing and throwing tantrums and refusing to acknowledge the discomfort, labor, or cost that can go into this type of beauty maintenance.

Linette

@wharrgarbl My guy didn't say a thing about it when we first got naked, but I did the full Brazilian a month or two later for entirely different, underwear-choice-related reasons and he was thrilled. He explained that he certainly was not going to tell me what to do with my own ladybits, but that it was his preference for those times when cunnilingus was in the offing (yes, there was still cunnilingus before the Brazilian, but there was extra enthusiastic cunnilingus every single time I got one). Since I happen to enjoy oral sex more when there's a smooth surface, I'm fine with it. Brazilians get much, much easier when you do them regularly.

I just wanted to stand up for the guys who do PREFER the clean slate, but who aren't jerks about it. And for the ladies who don't care one way or t'other, and are willing to do it if it's fun for their man-friends. We can all communicate clearly and make stands if/when necessary, people! This is not a situation where there is only one right call!

ragazza

I don't even want to ask the new bf about his preferences, because I am just Not. Going. To. Do. That.

twoweeks

@ragazza I did my first Brazilian for an ex bf and I was about to say that I would never do it again, but then I just asked my SO if he would like my vagina better if all the hair was waxed off. He looked quizzically at me and asked "permenantly?" I laughed, said it would grow back. He said "sure!". I asked if he would like it to be permanently removed. He said no, because "that would be weird". So maybe one day I'll surprise him and see how he likes it.

Because, really, it's not that bad after the first time. Or maybe I just blocked it out.

Reginal T. Squirge

@twoweeks This is exactly what's wrong with the dating industrial complex.

Sea Ermine

@ragazza Never ask! And if you must only do it in situations where they've been with you long enough that whatever you have going on down there becomes aesthetically pleasing to them even if it wasn't their original preference. When I first started dating my boyfriend he said he preferred trimmed (I let mine do what they want, no trimming shaving or waxing) but he could deal but I asked again recently and he said he likes my 70s bush and thinks its unique and refreshing. I think this was helped by the fact that he's kind of a hipster, I'm sure over time he learned to associate my ladyhair situation with other vintage retro things like old typewriters and safety razors and the clothes on Mad Men.

sox
sox

@Sea Ermine "I think this was helped by the fact that he's kind of a hipster, I'm sure over time he learned to associate my ladyhair situation with other vintage retro things like old typewriters and safety razors and the clothes on Mad Men."
cracked me the eff up.

whateverlolawants

@Sea Ermine That makes me feel so good. I recently played with an old typewriter, by the way. A lot of hipsters were present and a grand time was had by all.

Sea Ermine

@ragazza As much as I like to tease him about these things I really am fascinated by old typewriters. My parents had one when I was a kid that they got from a relative who had died and I loved trying it out and pressing all the little keys.

Daisy Razor

I've had people tell me it's not that bad, but then I had a friend tell me that when it came to vagina trauma, between a Brazilian and childbirth, she'd choose childbirth. And that was the end of my curiosity about waxing!

theharpoon

@Daisy Razor My sister said that about marathons vs childbirth. But then she ran another marathon and had another child, so I don't know what to think anymore.

Fig. 1 (formerly myfanwy)

@theharpoon Well, at least you know she's a masochist.

shantasybaby

@Daisy Razor I guess everyone is different, it was owie but not traumatic to me or anything. I think I laughed through most of it because it does feel a little absurd. What I couldn't stand was how much of a perfectionist she was and she insisted on getting up there and TWEEZING the strays, that was pretty brutal. I only ended up doing it twice because I didn't like having to let everything grow out in between (and my current dude could give a fuck, he likes a full bush.) I did it just to try it (guy at the time was indifferent) and I'm glad I did or else I'd have nothing to write here!

Daisy Razor

@shantasybaby See, I didn't think childbirth was all that awful (thanks for having a tiny head, Baby Razor!) but getting my eyebrows waxed makes me cry. So I remain skeptical about letting anyone other than my gyno poke around my undercarriage.

beanie

@Daisy Razor I cry at every eyebrow wax/threading as well. Nobody else ever seems to so I thought I was the only one.

theharpoon

@Daisy Razor ghosts in the phone makes me cry

ample pie

@Daisy Razor Oh god, threading. My eyes water like a baby when I get my brows done, and it makes me so twitchy.

slutberry

@Daisy Razor The Story of That One Time Sniffadee Tried Waxing Ladybits: Ended With Sniffadee Crouched In the Bathroom Crying and Cutting Away the Wax Strip With A Pair of Hair Scissors.

Did I mention that Sniffadee used to wax her own armpits before she decided hair removal was dumb? And is a bit of a masochist? BUT OMG THE PAIN.

whateverlolawants

@ample pie Yes! I just had my eyebrowsthreaded forthe first time and it HURT LIKE HELL. My eyes teared up and my skin was red for two days. People saw me the next day and thought I had JUST walked out of an eyebrow wax. And my skin is very sensitive (why I chose threading), so eff wax.

(Actually, my hairdresser said she's got some sensitive-skin wax for eyebrows, so like the curious masochist I can be, I'll probably try that sometime.)

NellieBly

@whateverlolawants FWIW, I have ALL of the skin problems, and the sensitive skin wax is ok for me. Afterwards I put some Ocean Potion Burn Relief on it (that I keep in the fridge). I do this all at home, so I don't have to walk home from the salon crying.

Reginal T. Squirge

"If you’re an adult you should find a pre-adolescent-looking, bald vagina utterly resistible. Utterly resistible. You should find something so 'nothing' about it. You should have no truck with a bald area. If you find an adult with a pre-adolescent-looking vagina attractive, you are now a person of interest in my book. And I mean that in a bad way. I mean that in a bad way” - Janeane Garofalo

laurel

OK, I'm in no way advocating for a bald special area or the expectation of a bald special area, just debating/discussing: re dudes (and ladies?) who like a bald special area on their partner, is it not possible that rather than being pedophiles, they like being able to see it? And also not having pubes in their teeth?

wharrgarbl

@ReginalTSquirge@twitter Not to go to bat for Team Bald Mountain, because basically it is an asshole move to put on your pouty pants about sex organs that are healthy and clean and belong to someone you find hot who feels the same way about you, but the difference in appearances between the vulva of an adult woman and the vulva of a pre-pubescent girl does not lie solely in the presence or absence of hair. The progression to labia-reduction and other sorts of vaginoplasty in porn is infinitely more creepy in the pedophilia sense than the hairless stage.

dk
dk

@ReginalTSquirge@twitter Oh, Janeane. I understand the drive to tell women that it's okay to keep your hair, and to tell men that it's not okay to dictate what your ladyfriend does with said hair...but please. I usually have a bald vagina (well, vulva, but I'll go with it), and I am absolutely a grownup. I'm really over people going to the extreme claiming that going bald means I look like a creepy, gross child and that there's something wrong with my husband still wanting to have sex with me.

anna to the infinite power

@dk I agree. I did the full wax for YEARS and if it hurts that bad it's either your sensitivity or (sorry that this has to be about her old workplace) the technician's skill level. I have never had any lasting irritation into the next day, even on my first wax ever. I stopped because of ingrown hair probs. And IIRC, my vulva has matured quite a bit since puberty, and it's not just the hair. Stuff changes. And Janeane, I loved you but you've gone all old and crotchety... and now I'll show myself out.

And I've NEVER had to adjust my own rather healthily proportioned labia during a wax, so that's odd in and of itself. You are not the waxer, you just lie back and breathe and then turn over and put your butt in the air for the last half.

PistolPackinMama

@dk Yes to all of this. I personally am not into waxing, but I am not about to tell any grown-ass woman (or man) that their body is pedophile-centric because they remove hair. Because: insulting, and also, not true.

Labiaplasty makes me so sad, that it even exists anywhere other than a Mario Puzo novel. But patriarchy.

nate@twitter

@anna to the infinite power yes yes, it's kind of rude of Janeane Garofalo to declare herself expert in the genitals of others, but "I did the full wax for YEARS and if it hurts that bad it's either your sensitivity" -- you can see how that reads wrong?

dk
dk

@nate@twitter I don't think it reads wrong - I agree with her point, which is that if waxing results in the kind of extreme, long-lasting pain that the author described, then the issue is really about either the author having some skin sensitivity or else the technician not doing a very good job. There is no reason a brazilian should result in what was described above. I know a number of women who get them regularly, as well as two technicians, and that's just not normal.

nate@twitter

@dk "Your skin is sensitive" is not the right term to use for someone who experiences lasting pain after having all the hair ripped off their genitals, unless by "sensitive" you mean "full of nerve endings." I think it reads wrong in the sense that it sounds like just another way of declaring expertise in someone else's body. I'm glad that many people can wax without excessive discomfort--more power to them--but I gather that a lot of people find the experience to be painful and horrible and that doesn't strike me as a surprising outcome or an indication that they're unusually sensitive.

Aphrodite

@ReginalTSquirge@twitter Technicians can make a BIG DIFFERENCE. I've had it done multiple times, and the first time was hardly painful at all (and I had it all taken off!) and then the second time with a different gal was like being burned by fire, or acid, or both. HOLY god awful.

needsmoresalt

@ReginalTSquirge@twitter I find that Janeane Garafalo quote so offensive I can't even deal with it! It reminds me of the saying "real women have curves" (because all the skinny, flat-chested bitches are SO fake, right?) Being attracted to adult women means being attracted to female humans who are of age, period. And it's completely false that the only reason a woman would remove her pubic hair (or do or not do anything else to her body) is to please a man.

dk
dk

@nate@twitter Having it hurt to sit down "a few days" after getting waxed? That *IS* a surprising outcome. Suggesting someone has a skin sensitivity is not "declaring expertise in someone else's body" any more than suggesting fair-skinned people spend less time in the sun because they're more prone to burn.

I'm not saying the author is too sensitive as a person, or that she did something wrong to bring about her painful outcome. I'm saying her skin sounds super sensitive, and/or her technician did a poor job. Not sure what the problem is with that.

joeks

@ReginalTSquirge@twitter My girlfriend likes it when I shave my face, so she must want to fuck little boys.

*rolleyes*

vomiting

@wharrgarbl Thank you for this. I'm clearly a woman, hair or no hair. Comparing people who prefer hairless women to paedophiles is a fucked thing. I'm a women who likes to wax and who likes other women who wax. Fuck you, Janeane.

Probs

Cheap candy is pretty rude.

Natalie S Bell

@Probs Agreed. To the max.

PistolPackinMama

So... what did you say to the guy about this, if anything? I... I... men have no idea how horrible it sounds when they get all entitled about lady-parts being waxed. So you say... ow! But then they say "well shave" and then you say "RAZOR BURN" and they say "electric razor" and you say "RASH RASH RASH" and then they pout.

Seriously, since when did men get all whatever, like hairless groin regions are a reasonable expectation to have of a partner. WHEN? WHO SAID THIS WAS A REASONABLE EXPECTATION? WHO?

Seriously. My mostly good but sometimes appallingly not great ex would make an issue out of it again, and I did what I usually do in such circumstances, and said "you look up the good spas, book it, pay for it, and don't expect any groin rubbing for three or four days and I'll do it." They never actually want to do the work of making it happen, so why should I?

And he acted like I should be embarrassed about being a full bush kind of lady. And I was all "no way, bro." And he was all "the first time I went down there I was all 'woah'" and I said "fuck you, there is nothing wrong with my groin."

Oh my god, I get mad even now. What kind of juicy juicy juicy juicebox thinks it's okay to act like I should be embarrassed about my pubes?

*huff*

OneTooManySpoons

@PistolPackinMama I love this rant and I might love you.

out of order

@PistolPackinMama
There was another post somewhere about pubic hair, and one of the comments painted the picture of a woman in a hammock lying in the sun and bouncing her hand off her pube afro, and that image and ownership of the pubes totally stuck with me.
Own your pubes! Love your pubes! Hear my pubes roar!

Summer Somewhere

@PistolPackinMama Past partners know this about me: ask me to change my appearance, and I will. In the opposite of the way that you asked. ("Why don't you dye your hair red?" = dyed black hair. "I prefer women to shave their body hair" = full natural.) HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW?

entangled

My #1 pet peeve about my guy is that he does not like pubic hair. Personally, I am of the opinion that I don't want it sticking out from under my bathing suit. That's a little too overtly sexy and besides I was once teased for it as a child. But the whole thing removal?! Ugh. I think it irritates me more than he can understand that he likes it, but I've finally settled into a routine of taking off the less painful part (for me, it's only that last quarter or half inch that kills) and telling him that if he hates pubic hair that much, he can remove his own.

joie

@PistolPackinMama
Your chutzpah is wonderful! I wish I could get in a time machine so I could rub my gloriously grown out bush in my juicebox ex's face, metaphorically speaking, because I don't want him anywhere near my lady business ever again, and it would have been awesome if I had just said, you know, I don't like waxing. I don't like shaving. I like the way my bush looks. It's hot. Instead of this: oh, sure, I'll shave for you! Because you give good head! And I want to continue getting head from you!

OxfordComma

@PistolPackinMama : Yeaaaaah, girl!

My other beef?

If *he* isn't willing to strip his privates bald,
*I* sure as fuck ain't going to.

highfivesforall

@PistolPackinMama Oof. And not that this has happened to me (I have heard stories), but sometimes the SO tries to use the "Oh, but I am willing to/already shave/wax/trim, so you should be willing to do the same for me!" excuse. Oh right I forgot, everyone has exactly the same level of skin sensitivity and opinions about what they want their body parts to look like, so that makes perfect sense. Right.

OxfordComma

@highfivesforall : Good point!

bangs
bangs

@Summer Somewhere What if they were Hanaballing your Fabian and wanted black hair all along?

Miss Violet

@OxfordComma Word. You know, we have hair down there for a reason, to protect our delicate parts! I grew up as a dancer and let me just say there are no pubes in ballet. When I stopped dancing, I stopped shaving and I'd never go back, no matter who asked me. There are many things I love about Mr. Violet, not least is the fact that on the night we met he was excited to see that I'm a natural gal.

I hope for everyone's sake that this fad for pre-pubescent genitals passes someday soon. Where does it come from? Does it come from porn? Are they the leaders or the followers here?

atipofthehat

@Miss Violet

It does come from porn: clearcutting makes men's business look longer and makes women's more visible. Add to that a false folk belief that shaven areas are cleaner than those with hair.

PistolPackinMama

@all

I am so relieved that I am not the only one who is just baffled that somehow we've gotten this discourse out there that says women who don't remove hair are a) unusual b) a problem.

Also, speaking of said ex. He claimed I was the only person he'd slept with (of more than a few) who didn't completely clear-cut. And I was like... no. You are lying. You have to be lying, because you were in high school in the 90's and are a naked hippie now.

And I am still not waxing it all off.

@highfivesforall yeah... "but I take all my hair off so you should too..." is... but I like hair on men. So by rights that means you should quit shaving. But I am not about to tell you to do that, because I don't get up in people's pubic hair decision making process.

:Cinnamon Girl:

@OxfordComma I actually don't like it when guys shave their parts bald and my new guy does and I want to tell him "it's okay, I'm down with/even kinda like body hair" in a way that doesn't criticize. But I won't. As long as he's not saying anything about me not waxing, I won't give him shit for getting rid of all of his hair.

GUYS, he doesn't have any chest hair, he shaves it (he doesn't have much to begin with but still). I LOVE playing with chest hair during cuddles. I miss it.

Also, I used to be have a semi-full bush -- I would trim and shave the bikini line. But then one day I shaved it all off and it's just easier to maintain! I used to be all FULL BUSH FOREVER and now I kinda wish waxing were free. I would so try it.

Summer Somewhere

@bangs Thanks to your comment & Wikipedia, I am approximately 2% smarter. I can reference the Fabian strategy now. (pats self on back)

bangs
bangs

@Summer Somewhere I got it from 30 Rock :)

Peanut Butter

@PistolPackinMama I think 'it's in porn is why' is a bad excuse for why people shave. I do it because it looks better. If I shaved my head (I shaved my head) I would be really insulted if people were telling me I was doing it to sate a guy's baby fetish.

I've been with guys who have told me that they prefer long hair (head) over whatever short style I had at the time. Fuck them. Also, fuck the guys who tell me pubic hair is sexy. I've been shaving the old pubes since 8th grade, and I certainly wasn't doing it for anyone besides myself.

selkie86

@PistolPackinMama Cheers!

I dated a fellow who was into the no-pubes thing. He tried to turn it into something romantic. It seems self-explanatory now, but I was young and inexperienced and have never experienced razor burn quite like that.

I'm lazy and have very sensitive skin, so... eh. My current fellow and I have a very relaxed attitude about body hair. Thank goodness!

PistolPackinMama

@Nymph my upset doesn't have to do with why an individual might choose to whatever s/he likes with his/her body hair. It has to do with where the normative idea that there is only one right way (bare) comes from.

Where do men get the idea they can just expect women to remove their hair? Or that having pubic hair is an embarrassing problem necessitating a talk about acceptable hedge clipping? (Answer: patriarchy) It's body hair, not, I dunno, picking your nose with a fork tine at a dinner table.

I could see porn playing a role in the expectations men have, without influencing the decisions women make.

Miss Violet

@PistolPackinMama I think that's what I was asking really, about whether porn plays a role here. I think there are a lot of things from porn that have crept into mainstream concepts of style and grooming and it seemed like the bare trend might be one of them. Porn can obviously be a very powerful influence on men of all ages in forming what they think is sexy or even just "normal".

OxfordComma

@PistolPackinMama @all: ...All of this to also say that it is perfectly fine to approach one's partner and say, "Hey! Do you want to try this waxing/shaving/dildo/new position?"

There's nothing *inherently* wrong with liking the way a smooth pubic area feels, and likewise, there is nothing wrong with saying, "You know, I'm not comfortable with that," and having the discussion end there.

Sexytimes for everyone! :)

finguns

@PistolPackinMama I logged in just to tell you: I kinda want to kick your ex in the nuts for saying this: "the first time I went down there I was all 'woah.'" (And possibly kiss you on the lips for the proper internal quotation mark use, but that's neither here nor there.)

I am usually pretty happy that I came of age long before the ubiquity of internet porn and waxing salons made the state of one's bush a thing, but now I'm wondering if it wouldn't have helped me weed out the assholes a little sooner. (Although that's now-me talking. Then-me probably would have died on the inside if a boyfriend said that to me then stayed with him, stubbornly refusing to give up my pro-bush stance but lacking the self-confidence to stop feeling sorry for him having to put his face in it when he was giving me head. Gah. Thirties, ftw.)

PistolPackinMama

@finguns The thought did occur to me. Having someone act like there is something wrong with me for feeling okay about being all natural might actual be a deal breaker for me now. When I think about it now, I get upset.

Yes. 30's. YAY!

Miss Violet

@OxfordComma Yes, absolutely. Thank you, very well said.

Veronica Mars is smarter than me

@finguns I haven't had a new sexual partner since I was 19, and I think the whole lady-grooming issue was *just* starting to be A Big Deal around then, so I've never had to deal with this either. I always shaved/trimmed enough so that nothing would stick out if I was wearing a bikini, but that's as far as it went.

That being said, I have to admit this: if I was out in the dating world now, I would probably be really self-conscious about my pubic area. I've been in a LTR for so long that I have probably gone close to six months at a time without trimming or shaving anything above my knees, and... well, they get veeeery long. I kind of feel like there would be enough hair to ACTUALLY get in the way of a dude's tongue? And/or really irritate their face? (I also take a long time to come.)

Gents and ladies who like ladies, do any of you have an actual physical issue with pube-to-face irritation?

nate@twitter

@Veronica Mars is smarter than me "do any of you have an actual physical issue with" -- short answer is no, you can just use hands to keep it out of the way. Really a non-problem, but for anyone on the market for a solution to this non-problem, there's trimming, which has always seemed logistically difficult to me but doesn't involve lots of pain.

Summer Somewhere

@Veronica Mars is smarter than me
I've never had an issue with facial irritation personally. It's a little annoying pushing the hairs out of the way, but totally worth it for the prize underneath. Once a partner of mine complained that short hairs were too pokey on his face when I trimmed to about half a centimeter (as short as I could with scissors), but I don't know where the sweet spot is for when the hairs get soft again.

PistolPackinMama

@OxfordComma Always. Of course, always. I just want to have my decisions respected, and that only counts for anything if the same is true for other people as well.

Also, sexy sexy sex.

maiasaura

My party line on that particular grooming thing has always been that I will accomodate aesthetic preferences within reason, but I don't DO pain.

AnnieGetYerFun

I honestly didn't think it was that horrible! But then, I don't get the whole shebang done (here's a tip - it hurts less in the hard-to-reach areas than it does up top).

Also, I don't like looking like a child when I'm clearly not. Or paying gobs of money for it - I swear I used to be able to get a Brazilian in the Bay Area for, like, $30, but it's $60 and up in Seattle. Who can afford that?

purefog

@AnnieGetYerFun I bet it's cheaper in, like, Kent.

karion

@AnnieGetYerFun: The Wax Bar (Ballard and West Seattle) has happy hours for Brazilians for $30-$40. As does the Waxing Moon on Capitol Hill.

SarcasticFringehead

@purefog Who's up for the worst road trip ever?!?

Brunhilde

@SarcasticFringehead That just made me snort laugh. "Heeeey guys, I found this discount waxing place in White Center! Who wants to go?"

Xanthophyllippa

@SarcasticFringehead Can we have a root canal too?

SarcasticFringehead

@Xanthophyllippa For sure, as long as you guys don't mind waiting with me to get my driver's license renewed!

Xanthophyllippa

@SarcasticFringehead Then maybe we can go shopping for skinny jeans!

Myrtle

@purefog Kent+pube jokes is deliciously wrong. Yay for you.

honeybadger

I am one of those who will tell you it stops hurting after a while, because it does!! I have been getting them for years and now it is quick and almost painless. As a mostly-hairy persian lady, I get brazilians for various reasons, but mostly for myself. And I always leave a strip because hello... creepy!

Donovanesque

Hmm, I do Brazilians sometimes. I started because I was going to get a hysterectomy and I thought they might shave me and do a poor job of it. It turned out I liked the smoothness.

It hurt the first time, and hurts if I haven't done it for months, but I don't think it's terrible.

And by the way, I don't look like a child when I wax down there. Or when I shave under my arms, for that matter. That's ridiculous.

dk
dk

@Donovanesque Thaaaaaaaaank you. I'm a 34-year-old pregnant lady. No way do I look pre-pubescent just because I choose to remove a few square inches of hair from an area that only my husband sees anyway.

leastimportantperson

But what about the pubic hair on French strippers you guys.

EpWs

@leastimportantperson That depends, are they engaged? Do they have a diamond? How old were they when their babies stopped breastfeeding?

leastimportantperson

@The Everpresent Wordsnatcher Okay let's just start with what we know. They're women right? So they must be doing something abhorrent, we know that. Let's work backwards from there.

EpWs

@leastimportantperson Whatever they're doing must also be offensive to hardcore conservative white male Christians. As practically everything can be considered offensive by hardcore conservative white male Christians, this doesn't narrow it down much?

dale

@leastimportantperson This deserves so many likes and bookmarks. Instead I'm quoting it on twitter to a friend.

Bonnie_Irene

Hahhaa yesterday I was telling my friends about my first Brazilian experience, which consisted of the waxer lady telling me to, "Take your clothes off, lay down, then hook your leg around my neck." Apparently this isn't how it's supposed to go!

anna to the infinite power

@Bonnie_Irene omg that sounds even worse than being asked to adjust your own labia. You should be able to get it done in two positions (Goddess Pose to yogis, and then Face Down Ass Up on your elbows) If it takes longer than 30 or so minutes, DO NOT RETURN!

ennaenirehtac

@Bonnie_Irene I am dying of laughter right now.

whateverlolawants

@anna to the infinite power FACE DOWN ASS UP THAT'S THE WAY WE LIKE TO FUCK

Fig. 1 (formerly myfanwy)

"The Best/Last Time I Bargained with the Patriarchy (Kyriarchy)"

You know, we could tag a lot of things with that.

Interrobanged

Angie! Angie sounds adorable.

olivebee

@Interrobanged I know! I am jealous that the author gets to know this person.

leastimportantperson

@Interrobanged I want/desperately need to be more like Angie.

Natalie S Bell

@Interrobanged Angie really is wonderful, and the best person ever to watch Game of Thrones with and talk about the soothing nature of Robb Stark's voice and how we wish he would read us nightly bedtime stories. She is only a mediocre music bingo player though, as she forgets to dab her card most of the time.

olivebee

Thank you, Natalie, for confirming my stance on never ever ever wanting to get this done. 1. I'm a total prude (I hate letting even doctors see my hoo-ha), so the idea of lady strangers seeing it...no thanks. 2. The idea of willingly doing something extremely painful to said hoo-ha makes me want to run screaming out the door. 3. I am a firm believer that all my friends and partners that ever urged on a Brazilian are not as good of people as you guys who are all "Fly your pube flag high!"

(Also...pube flag just put a very strange image in my head).

selkie86

@olivebee My pube flag is flying!

Ellie

More confirmation that I would never want to do this! But nice that your coworkers were so supportive and congratulatory.

What I REALLY wish is that you could pay someone to trim it for you. I shave around the edges and trim the rest pretty close but trimming is so annoying and difficult and I usually nick myself with the scissors a little bit. Waxing places don't ever do trimming, too, do they?

wharrgarbl

@Ellie Beard-trimmer? That's what I usually use.

Sea Ermine

@Ellie Maybe try a beard trimmer with a guard on it? I don't shave/trim/wax so I can't give you my personal opinion on its effectiveness but that's what my boyfriend uses on his pubes and he says the guard lets you choose the length you want (so it's not too short/too long) and keeps you from nicking anything sensitive.

stonefruit

@wharrgarbl just got one of those b/c someone (you?) mentioned it here, and it is the best! thank you, mysterious 'Pinner (or possibly wharrgarbl!)!

Daisy Razor

@Ellie You could also get the ridiculously fancy spa version of a beard trimmer, which I have and really like.

wharrgarbl

@stonefruit It might have been me, but I'm not sure--I know I've made the rec to people before.

It's a sensible solution, since the guard attachments take the possibility of self-injury off the table, and you have a number of different lengths to choose from. Like if you want a really close trim down below and a longer shag up top, easy peasy--you just snap on a new guard. Not to mention that it's difficult to really botch things and wind up looking like you've gotten really into art nouveau or a bad case of snatch-mange.

mangosara

@stonefruit protip: get a wireless one and then you can just trim over the toilet and flush. WHEEEE it takes like two minutes!

redheaded&crazy

@wharrgarbl I do love my beard trimmer! 2 things though:

first of all, my first beard trimmer was the quattro for men or whatever because I couldn't find the ladies version at the time. The men's version has 3 settings - the venus for ladies only has one setting equivalent to the shortest on men's! this irks me.

also of course the lady one is colourful while the men's is not. that irks me less because i like colourful things (alas i am only a simple lady, with a simple lady brain)

also true story my brother has the same beard trimmer and one day i couldn't find mine and oh god i was like uhhhh (boyfriend) left his beard trimmer here do you know where it went? and he was like oh yeah i guess i took it

D: D: D: sorry bro D: D: D:

(i never told him the truth??????? should I have?????????)

wharrgarbl

@redheaded&crazie Unless you've got the herp or something where it could actually do more than give him the heebie-jeebies, I'd say that's one of those truths best left buried forever once the point of no return has been passed. Like, I can't see any circumstances under which "Hey, bro, it looks like you accidentally snagged my ladybusiness trimmer and used it on your face. Mind sending it back? Thanks, see you at Thanksgiving!" is going to be welcome news, and there's practically no way he's going to find out on his own.

Also, D:

redheaded&crazy

@wharrgarbl that's pretty much the conclusion i reached. takin it to the grave/the internet

but seriously, D:

stonefruit

@mangosara mine is cord ... full? whatever, it plugs in, but I can sit on the toilet and trim away b/c of how my bathroom is laid out. So speedy and tidy!

EpWs

@stonefruit I believe the correct antonym of cordless is cordmore

digsapony

@redheaded&crazie true story: i use my boyfriend's beard trimmer. is that gross? i only tried a patch once because i was curious and trimming is such a pain but then i GOT HOOKED. i clean it well, and i figure he must be comfortable with having his face near my junk because... but now a part of me thinks this might be a lesser version of rape, forcing my junk on his beard without him knowing. moral grey area!

wharrgarbl

@digsapony The squick is strong with the sibling story because aaaaaaaaaah! sibling! and your junk! and aaaaaaaaaaah!. And if it was a dedicated business-trimmer, it might not have been kept clean past the point of normal maintenance cleaning, because nbd, not like anyone else is using it, right?

Sharing a trimmer with someone who's already all up in your junk on a regular basis pretty much isn't any kind of deal. Just keep cleaning it well, because that's only polite when you're borrowing someone else's stuff, and doing your thing.

raised amongst catalogs

@The Everpresent Wordsnatcher I love you for this forever. I can't stop hearing, in my head, "May I present Lord and Lady Cordmore..." and other snooty variations.

EpWs

@vanillawaif Fantastic! I feel like it could also be a term relating to golf?

log lady

@Ellie THIS is a great and inexpensive one, it's kept me painlessly trimmed for like 5 years now and it takes double A batteries. Only $20!

mangosara

@digsapony I have totally done this! it is not a thing! at first he was a little bit weird about it but then when I was like: 1. this is to your benefit and 2. you already put your face down there anyway he basically just agreed that he couldn't see any reason why I shouldn't.

Ellie

Thanks so much! I really had never believed that trimmers worked (I don't know why - I guess the tips of scissors just seem so much smaller/good for corners than any trimmer I've seen) but now I am totally convinced. I might try the one @knuckle sandwich posted because it is cheap and has 95 five star reviews.

Ellie

@knuckle sandwich Aaaand I just went ahead and ordered it. I am excited!

log lady

@Ellie Awesome! Glad I could help, I used to have the same problems with scissors 'til I discovered that thing.

Veronica Mars is smarter than me

@digsapony I wonder where does act falls within the moral grey area. Which of the fifty shades of grey??? Like, is it bad hash grey (annoying but forgivable)? Or dead for 18 days grey (you are going straight to the 9th circle)?

wharrgarbl

@Veronica Mars is smarter than me

Surely this is more fraud than treachery?

zeytin

@Ellie Or the cheap version: http://www.amazon.com/Schick-Quattro-Trimstyle-Bikini-Trimmer/dp/B001TH8Q72/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1334277761&sr=8-2

dk
dk

I <3 my Brazilian. It hurt a lot the first time, and only hurts a little since. I love the way I look and feel when I have it done. I do not look like a child, because I am 34 years old and 5'7".

I am all for everyone grooming themselves as they see fit, and totally understand that not everyone wants to go bald down below. I just wish I'd get the same respect for my choice. I don't look gross, childlike, icky, or whatever. I look hot, thanks. I'm sure you do too?

Sea Ermine

@dk This is always what weirds me out, no one says that women look childlike for shaving their underarms or their legs. Men don't get told they look childlike for shaving their faces. I dunno, I think maybe its a reaction on the part of some people when they feel like this is something they have to do but don't want to but I just find it bizarre and insulting. And I say that as someone who doesn't wax shave or trim (I like the 70s look).

anna to the infinite power

@dk It's like those flat chested women, why don't they all get breasts put in so they look less like children to those icky pedos?

olivebee

@Sea Ermine I definitely think it's a result of society's (and a LOT of men's) pressure to be bare down there. I have never wanted to do a Brazilian, and it always frustrated me beyond belief when my friends or boyfriends were like, "No seriously, you should really do it. It's way more attractive."

atipofthehat

@olivebee

Todd
gripping Susie's arm
Do it. I need to know you can take the pain.

Springtime for Voldemort

@dk Amen! I wish, just once, there could be a discussion about the female pubes with the prepubescent thing coming up. I'd be nice if we could just move along to the part where everyone sees women as full adults, and the idea that one could "wax/shave away" one's maturity was silly.

Mavis

I started getting Brazilians when I lived in New York. I'm from the South and it hadn't caught on everywhere, so it was sort of a novelty. I don't know if I'm weird (probably) or what, but, aside from the first time, it doesn't hurt for more than a second, and the endorphin rush afterward is soo nice. Seriously, I'll walk around for a good hour just floating on the endorphins. So maybe it does hurt but I don't notice? Plus, I really like the smoothness, I don't particularly care if anyone else does.

Anyway, I know I am extremely lucky to have found two exceptionally good aestheticians (seriously, the waxer makes all the difference in the world). I did have one nightmare wax story though: After moving back to NC from NYC, I booked an appointment with a day spa near the place I'd just gotten a job. I went after work, so I was already a little tired. The woman was terribly sweet and smiled the whole time, but I don't know if she was just not that good at waxing, or if I presented some especially terrifying challenge (I don't think so?), but it was a horror show. First she went to town with a beard trimmer that just sort of materialised before I had a chance to protest. Then the wax wasn't warm enough, so it got sort of clumpy. She applied more than one strip at a time, so the first one came off ok. But when she tried to remove the second strip, she didn't pull fast enough and there was this horrifying slow-motion rebound of skin, strip and wax as her empty hand went flying in the opposite direction. Then she tried to remove that strip with wax remover and paper towels, which, naturally, got stuck.

Generations of deeply ingrained politeness, my aforementioned exhaustion, and utter shock at my predicament kept me laying half-naked on that table until the job was done. I also had a date later and couldn't quite fathom how I might extricate myself from planned naughtiness with a half-mown lady garden. I can promise you that I never went back, though.

BoozinSusan

@Mavis That. is. horrifying!

HappyBeet

I am all for women choosing whatever they want for their vaginal hairscapes, however:

Has there ever been an awesome dude who has expressed a strong preference for his partner to have a Brazilian wax (or, really, any preference for how she manages her grooming)? Like, it always seems to be "Oy, the juicebox ex who wanted me to get rid of all my pubes... he turned out to be an ass." I'd really like to know! Has anybody had a simply amazing boyfriend who just so happened to hold this preference? In my - albeit limited - experience, these two things just don't seem to go together. Thoughts?

Noelle O'Donnell

@HappyBeet I would just like to chime in and say, yes it is possible to have an awesome dude who prefers it bare but I think what makes the situation okay is his opinion is, "If she's doing it, I'm doing it" so we're bare together.
Same goes for the few months we both went full-out bush, we both did it, didn't like it and went back to waxing/shaving.

entangled

@HappyBeet yes. my husband is totally amazing and forward-thinking and generally not at all part of the jerkcircus and he hates pubes. so there are exceptions. (though despite being generally awesome, he does not usually get what he wants because OW)

Donovanesque

@HappyBeet Mr. Donovanesque actually does prefer bareness down there, but he is a feminist and it wasn't easy to wrangle the truth out of him.

HappyBeet

@arrr starr Good to know! Ah, yeah as soon as I posted that I was like: Of course there are awesome people who like all sorts of different things! The difference is most likely in how these preferences are expressed.

atipofthehat

@HappyBeet

Everyone has aesthetic opinions, conscious or not. Some of us, male of female, are really turned off by some things, to the extent that they are dealbreakers. I think we have never have a right to dictate another person's choices, but sometimes have an obligation to express ourselves about them if they're important to us.

In other words, do whatever you want, and find someone who likes it.

gravie

@HappyBeet My dude and I had this argument early on. He prefers hairless, I don't. He told me so and I yelled at him a while and he conceded that he was being an ass and there hasn't been a problem since.
For the record, he prefers himself to be hairless. I have had many brazillians (I tend to go all or nothing if I'm waxing, but that's just a quirk of mine) but generally just trim now.

needsmoresalt

@HappyBeet This may not be the same thing, but I cannot deal with my bf going down on me when he has serious stubble. It is so itchy! I tried hard to go with it, but I felt like it was silly, because I was just sort of allowing him to do it, rather than actually enjoying it. So maybe I'M the jerkcircus in our relationship, I don't know.

Craftastrophies

@atipofthehat I really like you.

MoonBat

@atipofthehat So perfectly well put, Tippie.

Slapfight

@HappyBeet As for the opposite viewpoint, I like the way hair looks on a dude, but don't dig it so much in my mouth. I personally prefer if they keep it trimmed for sensory purposes, and I do the same. However, I'd never, ever tell someone what to do with their pubic hair, especially because "I prefer it to LOOK another way."

cherrispryte

@Craftastrophies isn't he kind of the best?

EpWs

Sooooo just in case you ever get the urge to go completely bare down south but don't want to put your cash and nerves on the line for a Brazilian, maybe don't shave everything. It'll be fine for a day or so but then it starts to grow back and creates an, ah, unpleasant stubble situation.

(This may only apply if you are like me and have body hair that grows back thickly, quickly, and with a vengeance.)

I do these things so you don't have to. Learn from my mistakes, leave some hair, etc.

Reginal T. Squirge

@The Everpresent Wordsnatcher Die Hard 57: Thickly, Quickly, And With A Vengeance

EpWs

@ReginalTSquirge@twitter I am laughing so hard my bed is shaking.

gravie

@The Everpresent Wordsnatcher OH GOD THE ITCH.

Craftastrophies

@The Everpresent Wordsnatcher Yes, it is the WORST. I did it once to just sort of see what it was like? And then it was THE WORST. And also, A sexytimes situation came up (so to speak) - I started seeing someone and they were going to be back in town in a few weeks and I just had to hope it grew out real fast because I didn't want him to think that was how it normally is. (It's ok, the sex turned out to be TERRIBLE, so it didn't matter! Yaaay!)

Also, I feel like it grew back way less curly. Is that a thing? I miss the curl, is it gone forever?

sarah girl

@Craftastrophies omg I think that happened to me, too! Much less soft, too. :(

OxfordComma

@ReginalTSquirge@twitter : TEA. UP MY NOSE.

Xanthophyllippa

@Sarah H. I read somewhere that hair usually feels less curly and soft as it's growing back in because it's not as long or flexible -- that is, shaving doesn't make your hair coarse (thank you, erroneous folk wisdom), but it DOES take off the part of the hair that's softer from...wear, I guess? The short little hair that's growing in feels coarser because it's not yet long enough to bend and be flexible when you run your hand over it.

Then again, I can't remember where I read that, so it's probably equally erroneous.

Noelle O'Donnell

I generally shave myself and haven't been back for a Brazilian because when I got one for the first time, the waxer lady SLUTSHAMED me the whole time while also ripping out tiny sections at a time in the slowest, most excruciating manner (I'm guessing as punishment).
"You want to wax so you can have all the sex? How terrible!"
"Well, that...and bikini season is coming."
(disapproving harrumphs) "So terrible, so young."

EpWs

@Noelle O'Donnell WHAT YOU ARE KIDDING ME

wharrgarbl

@Noelle O'Donnell That is straight awful.

anna to the infinite power

@Noelle O'Donnell I'd never get waxed by a lady who could be my Mom... stick with younger ones and they never judge. I have heard that this is a thing, the older judgey waxer. No thank you!

Noelle O'Donnell

@anna to the infinite power
Yeah, I've been wanting to get waxed again for awhile, holding off until I find some sort of young, trendy place.

I did complain to management but they basically laughed it off, saying that's how she was to everyone. The salon went out of business two years ago though, so that was pretty satisfying.

wharrgarbl

@Noelle O'Donnell HUH I WONDER WHY

loulou

@Noelle O'Donnell I've been to the old judgey waxer. Afterward I thought maybe she thought I was very young because I wasn't wearing makeup? WTF? You are the one who does this all day every day, how can I be scandalizing you that much?

mangosara

@anna to the infinite power When I wax I go to a probably 70-year-old Italian lady because it's like $28 and the first time I did it because I was going on spring break and she told me that she would make it so that I could wear a thong bikini! and did I have a boyfriend? no? what a shame, see how nice I made it for you?

SarahP

@Noelle O'Donnell I had the opposite experience once getting a bikini wax--the lady was surprised at how conservative I was, not wanting a Brazilian (that day).

PistolPackinMama

@Noelle O'Donnell I am so sorry that happened. Who does that? Wrong people, that is who!

likethestore

I love Angie!

nomorecheese

Is Hairpin going through some kind of creative stagnation?

melis

@nomorecheese It is! You've seen right through it. Other people were fooled, but not you. No, with your great and terrible laserlike precision, you've put your finger squarely on the nub. Thank you, truth teller!

melis

Unrelated; I'd like to commend you for your last two comments: "THE SHOES!!!!!!!!!!" and "I'm not uber proud of my boobs, either." Thank you for elevating the level of discourse, kind and noble stranger.

PistolPackinMama

@nomorecheese Rhetorical passive aggressive statements of criticism are so creative and not at all a standard genre of internet comment. You are wildly original.

Someone calk Edith and let her know The Hairpin is on the decline.

hahahaha, ja.

@PistolPackinMama: Caulking Edith seems a bit extreme ...

EpWs

@ietapi We should be able to just put some insulating drapes over her if it's drafty in here. No sense in getting extreme if it's just a temporary cold snap.

MoonBat

@The Everpresent Wordsnatcher Oh for fuck's sake, I've got a full tank of diesel and a caulking gun already in my truck, just let me have a little fun just this once? Why won't you ever let me have any fun?
Lexington is on my way .....you can ride shotgun ...

cherrispryte

@melis marry me?

PistolPackinMama

@cherrispryte Speaking of shotguns... isn't this a bit quick for a proposal?

Also, the rest of you... the internet informs me calk spelled CALK is a spiked plate on a shoe/horseshoe meant to prevent slipping.

EpWs

@PistolPackinMama FINE we'll give her some winter treads too. You guys are so concerned about winterizing Edith and it's already April, yeeeeesh.

MoonBat

@PistolPackinMama Beggin' yer pardon, ma'am, but I'm a professional. These horses won't be slipping.

Ellie

Why are you guys being so bitchy? This isn't like GOMI or something. Jesus. Since when is one not allowed to make a critical remark about a website in its comments section?

Bon Vivant

@Ellie I second this. Chill out, cool girls. Smacks of lunchroom bitchiness.

MoonBat

@Ellie & Bon Vivant: shhhhhh, we're protecting Edith. From snark, and from winter.

Bon Vivant

@MoonBat Alright then. Noted. *eyebrow raise*

nomorecheese

@melis thought I would re-comment in response specifically to you, melis.

Thanks to the people who didn't lose their heads at my comment. Actually, I think discourse and hearing other people's opinions is healthy. If you are terribly, terribly perturbed by hearing or reading an opinion that is different than your own, I highly suggest you prioritize how you spend your energy.

And by the way, I really love your work.

hahahaha, ja.

@nomorecheese: I think the reaction to your comment partly came from the fact that it was critical without being constructive. It would have been better received had it been phrased more like "the Hairpin seems to be going through creative stagnation because these recent articles have been [etc.], and I would have liked to see more [etc.]" rather than a flat-out statement. I think that, had you elaborated on your feelings, that would have been more conducive to discussion, whereas as it stands there's not much one can say to reply to your original comment except "I agree" or "I disagree" or "[something only melis could come up with]".

Part of it was probably also a knee-jerk protective sort of feeling though. Which is understandable when people feel a sense of community, but -- obvs -- is less conducive to discourse.

Xanthophyllippa

@ietapi This is more or less what I tell my students about course evaluations: they can tell me that they hated anything they want, but they'd best have a suggestion for making it better or an alternative in mind so I can take their comment seriously. Otherwise, it's the rhetorical equivalent of "airplane food, amirite?"

Which is why I was going to jump on this particular comment to mock it, but I see everyone got there first. It's especially off the mark given some of the really amazing stuff that was just posted in the last few days.

wharrgarbl

@Xanthophyllippa I personally was holding out for a 40-comment thread of nothing but variants on "Yup," "Nope," "I guess," "Okay, then," and "Duly noted." You have all disappointed me tremendously.

cherrispryte

@nomorecheese http://www.theawl.com/2011/02/a-few-basic-thoughts-on-successful-internet-commenting

PistolPackinMama

@Xanthophyllippa Yeeahhh, I that was more or less my line of thought. I am happy to read what people have to say about their reading experiences here and anywhere else.

But if I think you are wrong, which in this case is what I think, don't expect me not to tell you so, since why else are posting a comment if you aren't interested in having a conversation?

As an added bonus, don't be surprised if I decide to reply in the manner in which you originally posted, which in this case was "flip one-liner." I didn't pick sarcasm because it's my only mode. I did it on purpose as a way to make a point.

Also, I pretty much don't need a lecture on how I prioritize how I spend my semi-tasking time. It's worth it to me, and that is what matters most (to me).

As I flounce out the door, I'd also like to observe I have really enjoyed reading what people have had to say about the topic of pubic hair and the grooming/mowing/trimming/removal thereof. It's a topic relevant to my interests, and more conversation is, IMHO, better.

ETA @wharrgarbl: I for one, will never make that standard. I cannot shut up, DH Lawrence-style. Sorry. :(

wharrgarbl

@PistolPackinMama I generally approve of not shutting up, but there are times when putting so very much more effort into an answer than someone put into their question smacks of stale charity.

nomorecheese

@PistolPackinMama Pardon my failure to write an essay. I really think that people who get angry about this stuff are too reactive and YES should divert their energy otherwise.

But really, thanks for making me out to be the boogeyman. Is this the Hairpin sense of pride/community?

Nah, it's just girls being bitches behind their keyboards. It's not bitchy to express an opinion. It IS bitchy when you tear someone down for doing so.

PistolPackinMama

@wharrgarbl I don't recognize the term stale charity. Is it from somewhere or did you invent it?

@nomorecheese- I am really sorry. I really don't think it's bad to disagree and to say so. I do it all the time around here. (See recent convo with tipofthehat and melis about Lolita. Oy. I got torn up. And, I also got roundly ribbed for a typo in this thread, which is a little embarrassing. Or a lot.)

Making you feel like the Hairpin Baddie wasn't my intention. I know I am blunt (I've made campers cry before, which does not make me proud). When I am blunt, I am pretty much saying "say more, please. Not liking the writing here is fine- say more, not less. I am interested in why." If you don't feel like talking, that is okay, too, obvs. But I am not trying to make you shut up.

Also, I am not the HR Director of who gets to be at the cool lunch table at The Hairpin. I might think my point of view is right, but I don't think it's more special than anything anyone else has to say around here or in most other places.

wharrgarbl

@PistolPackinMama I invented it.

PistolPackinMama

@wharrgarbl I am stealing it.

Xanthophyllippa

@wharrgarbl Three words: Friday. Open. Thread.

wharrgarbl

@Xanthophyllippa Yup.

@PistolPackinMama Duly noted.

Xanthophyllippa

@wharrgarbl Okay, then.

PistolPackinMama

@Xanthophyllippa Huh. Hm.

Ellie

@ietapi I agree that constructive criticism is always more helpful, useful, and better received than non-constructive criticism, but I also don't think that non-constructive criticism deserves personally directed mocking in response. Especially in website comments, which are by convention less formal and don't require as high a standard of politeness or civil discourse (though this of course varies from site to site, and The Hairpin comments are fairly polite). My main internet home is The AV Club, people write "The site sucks lately" on there all the time and nobody really cares, sometimes it starts a meaningful conversation and sometimes it gets ignored. I just don't think non-constructive criticism is a big deal. It's one of the things the internet is specifically for.

hahahaha, ja.

@Ellie: This thread reads to me like some people who are very involved in and contribute content to the Hairpin felt defensive when they encountered a comment that left little room for discussion and just read like a shifty condemnation. I do agree that it didn't warrant the outright snark though. I am going to do something very shameful right now and quote the Real Housewives of NY: "You zinged (her), and she whacked you." Hasty words were exchanged, and multiple parties felt wronged, and I'm kind of bummed by the whole thing. :/

@PistolPiackinMama: Sorry for making you feel bad about your typo! I just saw a chance to make a corny joke and jumped on it. :)

wharrgarbl

@PistolPackinMama Yeah.

PistolPackinMama

@wharrgarbl Oh... well. I was embarrassed. But I know you're just running with a good gag, and not making fun of me especially. It's very funny, actually, and has tipped over into the realm of sublimely silly.

Carry on, is what I am saying. It's more than fine.

[ETA... Do you think Jane could track down snow chains for the Friday Bargain Bin? They sound kind of like jewelry.]

I am honestly not trying to carry on the argument. I actually am kind of baffled at how "reply snidely in kind" gets read as "bitchy bitchslap." I mean... I guess I just don't talk to people I don't like/want to know? (Stupid sexist mansplainer comments aside, I mean.) If I start off with a snide one-liner, I kind of expect that's what I am going get back and I am supposed to be ready to handle it?

And I clearly missed the cue, and then lost my composure, so you know. Mea maxima culpa, my most grievous fault.

wharrgarbl

@PistolPackinMama I'm still tickled by the idea that expressing an opinion is definitionally not assholish. I guess I better go apologize to John Derbyshire for hoping he dies in a fire. He was just expressing some opinions. Hmm. Same with Limbaugh and Santorum, too, I suppose. And all those guys who expressed the opinion that George Zimmerman was completely justified in being terrified of black children. And that dude who persuaded me to watch Napoleon Dynamite in the theater. Shit, this is going to take a while, isn't it?

hahahaha, ja.

@PistolPackinMama: Oh, yes, I also agree that calling it lunchtime bitchiness or whatever was a bit much. (Apparently I agree with everyone. :P ) I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that intent / tone is hard to discern on The Internets. As far as I can remember in the stalkerish depths of my brain, y'all are generally non-juiceboxes, so I didn't really find much of this thread to be personally hackles-raising for me, but I can see why others bristled. And I can also see why people were irked by the original comment in this thread.

ARGH ARGH sorry if I sound like I'm bending backwards to kiss everyone's ass. :( I'm mostly just trying to reason out what happened! OK I'm going to go to bed now.

And yeah ... I'm going to have to agree with wharrgarbl on this last count. It is not inherently a "bitchy" thing to express an opinion, but opinions can certainly be "bitchy" regardless of the original intent. (FUCK I just agreed with someone again)

PistolPackinMama

@wharrgarbl Look, I am not one to say it's okay to blame the victim. But. Napoleon Dynamite? You fully got what was coming to you.

(Actually, I just expect ND came out 15 years too late for me to appreciate it. I hope that one guy was at least fun/nice.

wharrgarbl

@PistolPackinMama There had been pretty much zero non-Mormon press about it, and the Mormon press was all "quirky indie comedy!", and the guy's recs were typically pretty good. No lie, the first thing I did when I got back from seeing it was email him to tell him he was dead to me. I sort of had my revenge when I refrained from explaining why he shouldn't go see the remake of Funny Games.

Xanthophyllippa

@wharrgarbl Yep.

Ha, ha. My own thang is, why is wasn't a snarky response also an opinion? I mean, if we're going to get all, "dude, it's just an OPINION; lay off" about the initial question, then we really should get all the same way about the inital response, since it's also an OPINION. Okay, maybe this story about the Brazilian wasn't the best thing I've ever read here, but I bristled on behalf of all the writers here, who don't deserve to be judged by one entry that didn't sing to me. And frankly, if someone posted a comment like that the day after I'd published something as novel and creative and moving as melis's piece, I'd go after them with a fucking chainsaw, not my rapier wit.

PistolPackinMama

@ietapi Oh, well. You're very flexible for your age! Ass-kissing yoga! Fitness of the future!

(totally j/k)

I don't know about you, but I intellectualize to deal with stress, so of course analyzing "how did this go from X to Y to TRAINWRECK" strikes me as a perfectly valid thing to do.

Seriously, if I were going to have a period of being Queen of the Lunchroom, I would really rather have had it be in, say, junior year of high school, when it might have done me even a little bit of good. Sadly, that is not how it worked out at the time.

hahahaha, ja.

@PistolPackinMama: Oh my god this is waaaaaaaay off-tangent but "ass-kissing yoga" reminds me of the fact that earlier this week I discovered YOGA PORN!! It is all kinds of ridiculous.

wharrgarbl

@ietapi If Napoleon Dynamite had contained yoga porn, I might have told that dude why he didn't want to see Funny Games.

PistolPackinMama

@Xanthophyllippa this is totally going to sound all Kids These Days, and is becoming tangental. But. A few of my colleagues apparently modeled for a first year writing class How To Have a Discussion a while ago.

Evidently, they had a grand old time picking apart this and deconstructing that and challenging thus and such. And, knowing those in the group, there was probably some raising of voices and waving of hands. So, you know, lunchtime convo about Reconstruction or whatever.

The student response? "It looks like you really hate Prof. Thus and Such, Dr. So and So. Why were you so mean to him?" I am pretty sure they wouldn't have, like, called anyone stupid. But even the disagreement that there was stressed out the 18yos.

Interesting, no?

PistolPackinMama

@ietapi NO WAY. No. Way. Nooooooooooooo waaaaaaaayyyyyyy.

Was it supposed to be all Kama Sutra? Or was it really just Hot Yoga: The Revenge of Downward Facing Dog?

My mind is melting.

wharrgarbl

@PistolPackinMama I think most of the trainwreck part started with the whole thing just not being on the rails at all? I mean, most places, being flip and sort of a dick and so forth are going to get you responses in kind. If you want people to take you seriously while you're being kind of a dick but also trying to make a real point, you're going to have to put something into it. King George didn't get the Declaration of Independence by sailing past Boston and mooning some old ladies.

hahahaha, ja.

@PistolPackinMama: One of the videos was just two fine ladies doing yoga and then doing each other on yoga mats (ugghh that would be such a pain to clean afterwards). But in another video this lady was all "am I doing this right?" and putting her butt in the dude's face (I guess he was the instructor?) and he was like "yeah but it'd be better if you didn't have clothes on wink wink" and next thing I knew she was giving him a blowjob while in a backbend and I was like HOLY COW SHE IS DOING THAT ONE HANDED FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME, and now I have a newfound respect for porn stars. I guess what I'm saying is -- Seriously, google that shit and be amazed.

PistolPackinMama

@wharrgarbl... I... I... but what about Divine Right? And also, I am going to have a hard time excising that image from my head...

@ietapi Oh. My. Word. Those are some flexible ladies. With major core strength.

wharrgarbl

@PistolPackinMama You're welcome? Just picture it as a Kate Beaton comic.

Xanthophyllippa

@PistolPackinMama WHOA. Wait, seriously, do we work together? Because I had something similar happen in one of my frosher classes when I tried to do the same sort of demonstration -- my students were all, "Dude, just tell me who's right and who's wrong." They don't even like it when they find two conflicting arguments in writing; apparently that's enough to make some freshmen take to their beds with the vapors.

(I did learn early in my career not to ask one of my colleagues to come demonstrate peer review to the kids. He came in and essentially trashed my paper with scathing criticism after scathing criticism and never one gave me a chance to reply. I ended up spinning it as What Not To Do.)

@wharrgarbl Oh man. We need to ASK Kate Beaton to draw that cartoon.

PistolPackinMama

@Xanthophyllippa do the words Brother Willie's Pub mean anything to you? And if so, why are we not at the White Horse drinking beer right now?

Either way, I think we're both dealing with students at about the same developmental stage, so... yeah. Familiar.

wharrgarbl

@PistolPackinMama I feel like students at that developmental stage should have looked at "Is Hairpin going through some kind of creative stagnation?", gone wide-eyed and drop-jawed, and gasped, "Oh my god, is it?". I mean, you have to possess a certain amount of analytical skill to be able to look at that as an opinion--as the author trying to communicate an actual concrete, knowable, widely-understandable sentiment--instead of a literal question to be answered.

PistolPackinMama

@wharrgarbl Apparently, according to a social worker I once knew, children by and large aren't developmentally equipped to handle sarcasm until after the age of 17 or so. This is in part because they haven't really developed the cognitive ability to make those kind of analytical distinctions.

I am willing to believe that as a general-order-of-things argument. But I have to say, that's not typically how I experience teenagers. I know quite a few for whom sarcasm is an easily accessible form of discourse. But then again, I was always assuming that teens who don't handle it well just aren't particularly sarcastic in their personalities. So, what do I know?

Anyway. Yes. I think you are probably right there.

Xanthophyllippa

@PistolPackinMama Okay, this is freaking me out in the best possible way, because I Googled BWP and got a place about 6 hours from me, but then I remembered there is actually a White Horse where I live. Okay, so. Do you...live in a place where the school colors include red? But yes -- I used to teach an awful lot of freshmen. I'm not sure about the sarcasm, but by 17 they certainly have derision down pat.

@wharrgarbl YES. They'd then automatically assume the answer is yes, because why else would you ask a question like that if you didn't want someone to say yes?

PistolPackinMama

@PistolPackinMama Yes, indeed I do. And I live in a town on a river that reaches the Gulf of Mexico in New Orleans.

Xanthophyllippa

@PistolPackinMama Okay, HA! Because I was thinking of a different red-themed school. But if you're ever headed from Your Place to Chicago, shoot me a line and you can crash here overnight!

PistolPackinMama

@Xanthophyllippa I was just there over Easter weekend (ran my first 5k wooo hoooo.) My BFF, brother, and SIL are all in Chicago, though. So I try and get down there. Next time I am in your neck of the woods I will shoot you a line.

MoonBat

@Bon Vivant *shrug*
Either we ALL have the right to criticize, or...I don't even feel like reading this anymore. Lively discourse is the main staple up in dis piece, and melis is my favorite chef.

Serafina

Those first few months when you meet someone who seems to have a lot in common with you, and they make you laugh, and they seem suspiciously human, and you think you might actually really like this person ... and then a few months after, you learn that they actually have the emotional intelligence of a six-year-old, can't handle stress, and when they do get stressed they turn into a selfish, bratty little kid that hurls mean comments at you for asking if they want to come watch The Voice in a little bit and that it's your fault for making them so upset. Hahahahahaha! What?

So, this is basically every single guy I have ever dated except one, with whom I am still friends; and my current boyfriend. I asked him about his preferences and he said he didn't care, bless his heart. And then out of nowhere I started shaving just around the sides, but then I missed some places, and then I tried to get those stubbly spots the next time, but I shaved a little further than I'd intended, and then suddenly last month I looked down and went "I have a dime-sized spot of full-length pubes surrounded by nothing but razor burn. This looks absolutely ridiculous and is extremely uncomfortable. I'm never shaving again." But oh god, the stubble, it itches so badly.

OxfordComma

@Serafina : Neosporin can help a bit with the itching and also keeping the hairs from getting infected.

Poor recovering cooter. :(

Xanthophyllippa

@OxfordComma Recovering Cooter needs to be added to the lineup for our Hairpin Battle of the Bands.

OxfordComma

@Xanthophyllippa : Word.

thisisunclear

I have reeeeeeally sensitive skin, so, no.
And now I want one of those chocolates with the coconut inside.

EpWs

@thisisunclear Russell Stover dark chocolate coconut cream eggs! 25 cents at Krogers RIGHT NOW! Go get you some!

hotdog

@thisisunclear Krogers! Are you in the midwest?? Because it blew my mind the first time someone (a transplant) told me "You know, it's Kroger, right? Not Kroger's. What is wrong with all of you?"

hotdog

@hotdog I was actually replying to @The everpresent, internet.

EpWs

@hotdog I'm in Kentucky, which is not sure which region it occupies, but yes! And I tend to muddle my plurals and possessives in business names because WHY THE HELL NOT they never use proper punctuation anyway.

And now I've looked at the word "Krogers" so many times that it's lost all meaning.

sarah girl

@The Everpresent Wordsnatcher Hah, this reminds me of how my boyfriend constantly calls it "Barnes & Nobles," and for some reason it drives me nuuuuuuts.

catwithglasses

@The Everpresent Wordsnatcher I was raised saying "Kroger's," so I will never be able to not say it. But I did get hell from my husband when the midwest in me slipped out and I called a very, new trendy restaurant in our city by its possessive. Oops.

Xanthophyllippa

@The Everpresent Wordsnatcher ALSO! Hershey's did coconut-filled Kisses for Easter this year. On sale at Target!

loulou

I've been doing it off and on for about 4 years, but I found a waxer who is THE BOMB about 2 years ago and have been going in about every 8 weeks since. She is so quick, plus she is nice to talk to and fun, I actually look forward to it. It still smarts a little, but I don't care. It makes me feel powerful! like in a way that i know i'm in an exclusive club of people who can handle it. Kind of like bikram yoga.

I have heard women say about child birth that they think there is some sort of internal defense mechanism that hinders your memory so you don't remember how bad it is and then you do it again and you are like WHY AM I DOING THIS AGAIN!! That same thing happens each time, for about the first 10 seconds.

If I want to do it, it makes me feel sexy, then who cares! I gave a brazillian gift cert to a prego friend and she LOVED IT! and when I posted that on here someone jumped on me about 'good god can child birth be the one time we don't have to worry about our pubes!!'. I LOVE GROOMING MY PUBES! THERE I SAID IT!! JUDGE ME!!

gigglefest

@loulou: I'm judging you hard! How dare you do whatever the hell you want with your body. Whattabitch. :)

dk
dk

@loulou I am pregnant! I've only waxed once since getting knocked up, and am heading back in soon. They can judge me too.

beanie

The one time a women gave me what she claimed was a Brazilian, but she left the teeniest of strips "for protection". It looked like a Hitler mustache on my vag.

emily eileen

@beanie So, she left a horizontal strip? I've never had one, but I always imagined a landing strip to go vertically..... Am I wrong? What will happen if I google "vaginal landing strip"? OH DEAR LORD, ALL THE VAGINAS!!!!!

selkie86

@beanie Ahaha, I have a friend going to a photo shoot. The theme is "pustache" I think you get where this is going...

beanie

@emily eileen it wasn't a full strip but just a little square of hair basically at the top. I don't believe it could protect me from anything.

OxfordComma

@beanie : Cookie duster for your muffin?

wharrgarbl

@beanie Maybe she meant that leaving a little bit of hair there would keep your underpants/partner's crotch from chafing your clit? That is the only thing that I can think of that might possibly make any sense about her reasoning.

Nicole Cliffe

I...oh, God, I still do it sometimes, but I also think: "I am paying someone serious scratch to do something to me that the Lannisters would probably do to their enemies as a form of torture."

atipofthehat

Hey!

Everyone shave bare and come over to my place. I'll be ready with pancake batter, some moss, and a blender.

PROBLEM SOLVED

MoonBat

@atipofthehat Haha, totally picturing your living room full of laydees lying around with their legs in the air, and you running around diligently with a plant mister, tending your laydee Topiary garden.

the angry little raincloud

I have not even read the comments-- because I'm too drunk-- but let me tell you, if it hurts that much, the person doing it didn't do it right. Seriously. I am QUEEN OF THE WAXING. I am also queen of body hair. (It's a toss up. People are amused, but I really don't care. Sometimes I have fairly lush body hair, sometimes not. Whatever). Anyway. Bad waxing = pain. Good waxing = minimal discomfort. It's never painless, but honestly swear to almighty Gachnar, even the full monty can be relatively fine (think eyebrow wax discomfort). But only when the waxer knows what s/he is doing. I'm happy to share recommendations for people in NYC.

SarahP

@the angry little raincloud Yeah, I've only been waxed a few times (5 or 6?), but it has never been that bad. The most pain I've experienced was needing a moment to go "whoo!" after one strip was pulled (there's always that *one* spot that hurts, but once it's done, it's done) to calm myself down; the pain was gone seconds afterwards. I can also share some recommendations in Boston if people want them.

Shayna

Pinner thoughts on using Nair (bikini version) for the upper and side bits? Horror stories/success stories? I have the bottle, it is staring at me, but I cannot work up the courage to try it yet.

redheaded&crazy

@Shayna you're talking about the hair removal cream right?

i used to use nair in middle school/high school because my mom was super against shaving so i kinda grew up with that mentality, and i was am a wimp when it comes to waxing.

basically ... it works? pretty well? it can kinda burn a bit, and while the results do last longer than shaving (as far as I remember anyway), it takes more time and creates more mess ...

the first time i tried a razor in like grade 12, I never looked back. So do with that what you will!

emily eileen

@Shayna Yeah, I've used it before too. It works fine, but is messy and the smell.........ugh, vomitrocious. Also, DO NOT BUY THE "RASPBERRY SCENTED" ONE! It's lie!!

space opera

@Shayna I always use it! No razor burn and it gives you a little more control-- the idea of getting the razor in too close there totally freaks me out.

digsapony

@Shayna when i was 13 i used generic hair removal cream on my bikini line because the cool girls were laughing at me on swimming day (wahh wahhhhh) and it BLISTERED and BLED. i had horrendous scabs. but do not let this put you off, for i was far too young to understand correct usage of corrosive materials near my junk.

sarah girl

@Shayna It never really worked for me? Even though I left it on for a long time and wiped it as instructed and all that. I think it's because I have thick, dark hair. Disappointing!

cherrispryte

@Shayna If you have sensitive skin AT ALL, run far far far FAR away from Nair. 12-year-old me had legs covered in chemical burns for about a week because of that shit.

OxfordComma

@digsapony : I tried Nair on my upper lip and BURNS also BLISTERING.

Arrrrrgh.

wharrgarbl

@Shayna Test a little bit on something that is sensitive but not your junk first. Like maybe an inch-square patch of ankle. If you have a bad reaction to it, which happens (see above), that way you won't be having it on your junk.

anachronistique
Craftastrophies

@anachronistique That made me laugh so hard that my head aches and tears are streaming down my face.

Also, now my cat is hiding under the bed again.

Veronica Mars is smarter than me

@anachronistique Noooo I hate that video so much! It's funny and adorable until you see more of kitty's body and you realize kitty is COMPLETELY TERRIFIED :( :( :(

wharrgarbl

@Veronica Mars is smarter than me I thought the point was that kitty is verbalizing his feelings? I mean, that's kind of my reaction to small children, too.

commanderbanana

Girls.

Look, I have two full sleeves of tattoos. I have a tattoo on my sternum, I have two on my belly, I have two on my back, I have a big-ass tattoo on my left thigh, I got my septum pierced, my eyebrow pierced, and both nipples done.

You know what the most painful experience of my life was? Nope, not extensive dentistry from a poorly trained military dentist.

A BRAZILIAN.

And this was from a super duper expensive woman who is allegedly the Queen of Brazilians, and she was fast, and I would. not. do. it. again. I'd rather get punched in the face. Not to mention, I didn't Google Brazilian after-care (totally should have) and ended up looking like something was Not Right in that region.

That being said, yes, I did feel kinda sexy afterwards. What are my alternatives?? For some reason I can tolerate pain I'm inflicting on myself better, so I'm thinking of trying some at-home waxy things.

Recommendations?

SarahP

@commanderbanana If you're okay with spending a lot of money up fron at once, lasering is an option!

martini

@commanderbanana I use a combo of an epilator and a home sugar waxing kit (Parissa brand). It's the best. I timed myself last time and it took 20 minutes and hurts way less than any of the salons I've gone to.

-Fellow pierced/tattooed/better with self-inflicted pain lady

Myrtle

@commanderbanana I've done that and bought the whole pro setup with the wax melter and the Honee wax and cloth and smearing sticks because No stranger is going to touch me like that... I wonder if it isn't easier if you're doing it yourself, because you're in control? A good beauty supply store will sell you the "works." Also, I got the bottle of Tend Skin and no awful ugly itchy ingrown hairs! I just would never be able to have someone else do it.

Heat Signature

I've had two Brazillians in the recent past and both have resulted in very extensive in-grown hair situations, even after daily exfoliating and use of a special serum recommended by my waxer. So many red bumps, so much irritation, I am likely out of the game at this point (did you know waxing is a game? It is! I was supposed to keep this whole thing a secret, but I have to turn on my heartlight.)

SarahP

@Heat Signature Did they use hard wax or wax strips? I find I don't get ingrowns with hard wax, but the strips give me ingrowns. :( But everyone's body is different--I can't shave because I get a crazy number of ingrowns, while a few of my friends say they never get ingrowns from shaving, but do from waxing... etc.

Heat Signature

@SarahP Oh my...I don't know what the difference is? She used a little pot of melted wax and then removed it with strips of cloth. Which one is that?

SarahP

@Heat Signature Yup, that's strips! With hard wax, they just smear on wax (which isn't as hot as the kind from sthe strips, in my opinion), and it dries hard. They then flick up the edges and just pull the whole thing off, no strips needed. I find it a lot less painful than strips--and I don't get ingrowns from it. If you're up for another waxing experience, try a place that uses hard wax!

Heat Signature

@SarahP Oh, thanks for the tip! I live in the North country, so I may not have access to this advanced technology, but I will check around!

kickupdust

Aaah I feel like I'm chiming in waay too late on this one but still: has no one ever gotten sugared? It is WAY WAY WAY BETTER than regular waxing because the sugar doesn't stick to your skin like wax does! (Also not super hot like wax!)

And also: every time I go I get a lecture from the lady doing it because I let it grow out too much - not because she's horrible and hates natural pubes or whatever, but because they're way harder to rip out once they're more er... established? SO, I think a large part of the "it gets easier" line of thought is that actually, when you go more often, there is less hair grown-in overall and the hair roots (?) aren't as um, large? Less to rip out = less pain! It's practically magic!

SarahP

@kickupdust I tried sugaring at home and got loads of ingrowns. Which I am quite sure is user error (read: my fault), but there aren't any places that do sugaring nearby, so DIY was my only option.

martini

@kickupdust I LOVE sugaring but it always seems to take longer than waxing at salons. I'd rather have more pain but have it be over faster. These days I sugar at home and it is pretty amazing.

peacheater

Wow, I have absolutely dismal pain tolerance so I am never ever getting that done, that's for sure (I am really not looking forward to childbirth). But so far, I've never had a sexual partner, either serious or casual, who's ever said anything to me about my bushy pubes. My current boyfriend loves to go down on me so I do trim the hair with a pair of scissors but I don't shave because the few times I've done it's been awfully itchy. Recently we went to see the Vagina Monologues and he seemed really affected by the monologue where the woman's husband(?) wants her to remove her pubic hair but then leaves for her another woman anyway. He thought it was horrible of him to insist. He seems to strongly favor the au naturelle look anyway, probably since he hasn't really watched much porn ever so porn standards for attractiveness seem to have gone right over his head.

SarahP

I have learned something about myself from this thread. It turns out I like talking about hair removal almost as much as I like talking about IUDs (read: too much).

wee_ramekin

@SarahP Read: never enough.

splendorofmorgan

Did you get no numbing spray? NO NUMBING SPRAY?! You poor dear.

For about a year and a half (during which, for the most part, I was single), I got Brazilians done on a 6 week cycle. My lady was amazing - 10 minutes, in, out, distracting me with hilarious stories, no soreness, all smoothness. Ah, I miss her.

log lady

I have incredibly sensitive skin, and so I never shave, am generally too lazy to remember to trim, and haven't gotten around to even shaving my legs in months. My dear dear boyfriend hasn't said one word of complaint. I'm not gloating, I just really sincerely want to thank you guys for reminding me what a gem I have.

slutberry

@knuckle sandwich Because of similar sensitivities, I haven't shaved my intimates for two years, my armpits in a year (and that was just because my friend asked me, as a special favour, for her wedding, very politely). Gentleman met me with hairy pits, and when I shaved them for the wedding, he got all weirded out because "They don't look like yours!"

This winter I let my legs get fairly shaggy because, you know, it was winter, and one evening Gentleman and I were hanging out and he noticed my leg hair and got SO EXCITED about it (like in this weirdly adorable squee puppydog kind of way) that I let my leg hair grow out for good. Not sure if I'm going to keep it, but for now, I'm getting a kick out of walking around downtown in a cocktail dress, four inch heels, and shaggy legs :)

Xanthophyllippa

@sniffadee AW CRAP, I just wrote this whole story about weddings and shaving and then accidentally hit "delete" instead of "edit." Well, okay:

My grandmother was an Old World, Eastern European lady who left the family farm for Canada with her family when the Nazis started encroaching. She didn't speak much English, but gradually adapted to her new country -- including its standards and expectations for women's grooming. Later (and I'm not sure when, but I want to say in the 60s), she went back to the motherland for a wedding. She was horrified to see that the bride had unshaven armpits, and immediately made the bride go shave.

When the bride's mother saw this, however, she immediately burst into hysterical, fearful tears that the groom wouldn't want the bride anymore now that she was ugly and hairless.

So - congrats on finding a groom who didn't leave you at the altar for suddenly defoliating the pit jungles!

bloodorange

I got Brazilians periodically for a while, not because anyone asked me to but because I thought it was interesting and novel and felt nice (but looked silly on me, in my opinion). It hurt like a motherfucker the first time and I was very swollen and bruised etc. - and then even if I went a year or so between waxes, it never ever hurt or reacted as much again. I do think the hair-roots argument holds up.

Can't deal with the expense, though, and I do like pubes!

oh but anyway I once had an excellent experience sugaring myself with the Moom brand of gunk. I was like "well I guess I'll give this a try for a basic bikini wax" and suddenly I'm in the tub like "I CAN TAKE THIS" and ripping out all my vag hair and feeling like a warrior. hoo-ahhhh!

SarahP

@bloodorange You were swollen and bruised?! If I had come like that out of my first Brazilian, I would never have gone back. You are hardcore. (After my first one, I was a little raw-feeling for a couple hours, but totally fine for sexytimes that evening.)

FickleMoon

My first wax ever was a Brazilian done to a guy's specific request as it really turned him on. It wasn't that painful at all but I felt weirdly exposed. You can see everything all the time, just bits hanging out in the mirror and shower and when you put your knickers on. And there's a massive lump down there - does this pubic mound make me look fat, you guys?
However I also got a lot of incredibly hot sex. Life is all about compromise.

fondue with cheddar

Vagina waxing? That sounds even worse than vulva waxing!

planforamiracle

Is this the right place to ask if regular Brazilian/bikini waxes gradually make you lose sensitivity in your lady area? in the same way biking ?

Linette

@planforamiracle Not in my experience, but I'm sure it's different for different ladies. I did find that it was much, much easier to get waxed if I'd been waxed the month prior. The first Brazilian was the most painful thing I've ever done. Every subsequent one is definitely painful, but not prohibitively so.

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