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Tuesday, October 18, 2011

349

"Accidental" Bra-Touching and Rebound Mathematics

I’m in a serious relationship with my boyfriend (we’ve been dating for 13 months, but I’ve known him for a couple years as a close friend). I really love him. He’s gregarious and outgoing, which compliments my quieter, introverted personality. But lately, this gregariousness has become something of a problem. He’s always been a big flirt. As previous best friends, I know personally how flirty he can be even while in a relationship. For the majority of our relationship, he has been wonderful about this. He says this is his first long-term, serious relationship and I actually think it is. But now he is really flirting with one of his female friends.

He’s told me about some of the things she’s said to him, and people have said he’s leading her on. Here’s where I’m a bad person … I looked at his phone after drinking a bit. And as what always happens when you snoop, you find things you don’t like! Sigh, karma. But he’s been texting a lot of things (saying things like how they missed their chance to hook up when we briefly broke up, how much he likes her, how he has sex dreams about her all the time, etc.) and I also found out about a suspicious incident on a bus. She says there was some cuddling and bra touching and he says it was “accidental” if anything happened. But … I’m not sure I want my boyfriend who gets in a situation where there could ever be any even “accidental” bra touching! I know she likes him and has planned hook up attacks (scary movie in basement alone and she tried to get him to initiate but instead he turned on the lights and invited some other people…go boyfriend!).

I really do think my boyfriend loves me (that also comes up in the texts, he’s upfront about how serious he is with me to her and to their mutual friends who’ve talked to him about it)…but I just don’t think he always knows what is appropriate. Not to get all overly analytical, but his dad cheated on his mom for years and now that he’s left that marriage, cheats all the time now with younger girls on his current partner. It’s not an excuse for my boyfriend, but the flirtyness definitely seems to run in and be encouraged by his family.

So basically I don’t think he would cheat, but these actions are still disrespectful and hurtful in my eyes.

I love him but I want this behavior to change. How do I talk to him about this? He does have a temper and I’m almost always the non-confrontational one, so I’m a bit lost on how to initiate this talk. Also, there’s the obvious issue that I found this out by snooping (I know…guilt). Help me!

First of all, there is no such thing as accidental bra touching! Jesus. Unless you’ve opened up the wrong dryer at the laundromat and a bra flies out and hits your hand, but even then the bra is technically touching you. At the very least, one garment would need to be negotiated in order for a bra being worn by another person to be touched by your boyfriend. Wait a minute! What about the cuddling?! My sweet child. I’m not even going to get into the scary movie in the basement.

The fact that you found out about all this by drunk-snooping is not good (as has been discussed AD NAUSEAM on here), but you can’t go back and erase that. Plus, it appears to have only reinforced what you already knew anyway. Just dump this dude. Your psychoanalysis only enables his behavior. What he’s doing is unacceptable, whether his upbringing encourages it or not. His father’s behavior is unacceptable, too. Get out of this as fast as you can and don’t look back. You may love him, and his personality might complement yours in certain situations, but this is not flirting, it is testing your boundaries. He’s slowly seeing how much he can get away with, and from the looks of it, you’re willing to let him get away with a lot. Don’t do that. Don’t talk to him about it unless it’s in the context of breaking up with him. Don’t tell him you looked at his phone, just talk about the things he knows you know. If you hadn’t mentioned his temper, I’d say confess to the snooping, but it’s never worth finding out how far someone’s temper will take him. If you’re worried about his reaction, then talk to him in a public place and arrange to meet with a friend immediately after. Maybe wear an extra layer of clothing, too, just in case.

I am a 24-year-old lady and a 36-year-old gentleman has asked me out on a date. He's a super hot park ranger from DC and he makes me laugh and he likes dogs. The age difference isn't such a big deal, it's his actual number. My dad is 42. I just met my dad a few summers ago, and I can't lie that there are substantial similarities between these two guys. They sound almost exactly alike on the phone, and they have the same height/build. I don't think I have daddy issues, but if I did, this would be a tell-tale sign (according to the movies and television I watch). Please give me a reality check. Is it inappropriate for me to date this guy when he reminds me so much of my father?

Yes.

More? Simply enough, if the mere act of this guy asking you out on a date made you think of his similarities to your father and ask this question in a public forum, then it is probably inappropriate to go out with him right now. Having said that, I really don’t like the term “daddy issues,” because it’s incredibly reductive, and really, everyone bases decisions and positions based on their relationships with their parents. I mean, my mother is incredible, so if I date someone who reminds me of her in some way, I don’t see it as a negative or frightening thing. I also don’t see it as negative if a lady likes to watch CBS from Sunday Morning to 60 Minutes like my dad does. What I think we all want to avoid is dating someone who, if he/she were to come over to our parents’ house for dinner, would make us feel like we were in a scene from Dead Ringers. My advice would be to ask yourself (and maybe a professional if it’s a bigger issue) if these feelings about your dad/date leave you feeling anything less than great about yourself. If so, you should focus on working that out first. The last thing you want to do is start using this guy (or other men) as a proxy for working out your feelings about your dad, because it will prevent you from getting anywhere with either of them.

Other than that, dude sounds quite hunky. Your dad I mean.

So, this is the first time I've ever written into an advice column — I hope you can help!

I have a great boyfriend, and we live together. Aside from usual living together issues (dishes! laundry! etc!), we make pretty great roommates, which is lucky, since we love each other and want to keep living together, have a great apartment, etc.

I have two problems: Problem 1 is that our schedules are just off enough that we hardly see each other. It's like his world is California, and my world is New York, and there is this three-hour time difference. I get to work by 8 or 8:30 (ouch!), and his office gets going around 10, so we don't see each other in the mornings. I haven't once been able to convince him to wake up early enough to have breakfast together (I'd never ask him to do this regularly, just maybe even once per month), although I often stay up extra extra late to hang out with/have dinner with/go to a bar with him. Are mornings just a thing that some people can't handle, or what?

Part 2 is that, also, lately I've been taking night classes, so I am underslept, underfed, and, in general, under-fun. They're over at the end of August, and it's pretty much ruining my summer. But! After some initial grumbling about how it's hard for us to go out together/do things on weekends/etc., has really just been incredibly supportive. He makes dinner and saves a plate for me in the fridge. He makes me tea while I study. What is the best thank you gift I can give to my bf? (It seems like this shouldn't be a birthday present type thing, right? Like, not a new microphone, kitchen gadget, or bicycle accessory...) Thanks!

Can you talk to the last lady here? It actually sounds like you have a really lovely, if currently inconvenient, relationship, and I think I might have a two-birds-one-stone solution for you. Allow me to start by saying that I, too, am not a morning person. I’m not not a morning person either, but on balance, my repartee is far less scintillating before nine-ish. But, if one morning my girlfriend were to wake me from slumber earlier than normal with breakfast in bed, wearing some new, particularly alluring undergarments, I probably wouldn’t even notice what time it was. In fact, I would probably not be totally aware that I was awake for another 15 to 20 minutes. But, I would feel extremely appreciated if such a thing was presented with a “thank you for being a good guy.”

I would then not only continue being a good guy so as to earn further such rewards, but also wake up earlier on subsequent mornings and return the favor on occasion (although I’m not sure what ladies consider alluring male undergarments ... cheetah thong?), in the hopes of creating a cycle of sexual breakfast encounters. Let’s call it a French Toast Ouroboros. If that doesn’t work, just taze him randomly for a couple months, he’ll start waking up real early, maybe not sleeping at all. And then you can buy him therapy as thanks. Either way, you’re set! Ta-da! But seriously, in an ideal world, we’d always be thinking of ways to make our partner’s lives easier and better, and it sounds like you guys are pretty close. I hope your schedules come together really soon, and when they do, please share us with your journeys toward domestic enlightenment. Namaste.

Just over two months ago I was dumped by my boyfriend of 1.5 years. He said it was because he couldn't make me happy, and for about four days I thought it was the worst thing that had ever happened to me and cried on everyone's shoulder and ugh, terribleness. But I started to feel better pretty quickly (it's true, he didn't make me happy?). And I took all the Hairpin advice and started doing pilates and got a haircut and went out drinking with lots of different girl friends and just got excited about my life again.

About a month later, I was really starting to feel really good. And happy! And I happened to be on Twitter and saw a tweet from this guy saying he'd just moved to my city (back story: I've known him for ages and ages (since high school!), and I always had a big crush on him, and we even had a brief flirtation/making out at a party a few years back, but at the time we lived several hours away and we were both kind of idiots and nothing happened). We went out for drinks to catch up, and then out for dinner, and then just for some really long walks around the city. And in the five years since we were last really friends, he has grown up and turned into this really nice guy who is ambitious and funny and identifies himself as a feminist and UGH. So I told myself that we were Just Friends and that worked for about two weeks until we were playing Scrabble one night at his place and I kind of sort of kissed him? (UGH I KNOW.) And the kissing was really good, so for the past few weeks we've been continuing to hang out and have dinner and go for walks and sometimes make out a bit. And we have had one conversation about What We Are, and I told him I wasn't ready to date anyone, and he was like, "Cool, let me know when you are. Also p.s. I think we're sort of already dating, but no worries." And he says things like that he really regretted that we never dated before and he really wants to make a go of it this time.

So. Deep breath. My question is: Am I insane? Am I incredibly stupid for letting myself like this guy when I am still getting over something else? (The thing is, I try really hard to not like him, and not want to kiss him, but it is nearly impossible.) Will I doom this (potential) relationship if I get involved with him? Is there anything I can do to try and not-doom it, short of taking things slow, not sleeping with this new dude yet and continuing to just spend lots of time by myself figuring out what I love, post-breakup style? Is there a standard calculation I can use to figure out when I will be over boy a and ready to date boy b? Help help help!

The general formula is as follows:

Duration of Relationship A (in months) x Happiness Ranking During Relationship (1-10) / Number of Combined Ladies' Nights and Pilates Sessions Required to Feel Good Again = Duration of Rebound

In your case, and excuse me for taking any liberties with the numbers here, we’re looking at:

18 x 5 / 8 = 11.25

So, wait 11.25 hours after you read this and go have a good time with Dude B. Please feel free to adjust that number accordingly.

Whether you wait a day or half a day, though, you are not insane or stupid. The opposite, I’d say. It’s clear you’ve already put a lot of thought into it and are protecting yourself appropriately. If you’d said that you’d had your heart broken by someone you’d been euphorically happy with for a number of years, I would probably tell you to be careful. But you got about as upset over your breakup as I do when my DVR doesn’t record AMC Essentials, so go for it.

Obviously, you’re always going to be a little more vulnerable when you get into relationships with people who already mean something dear to you, but that’s just part of the deal. The potential for greatness proportionally increases with the depth of friendship. Just continue to be honest with him and ask him to do the same so that there are no surprises, and, if it doesn’t work out, you’ll be able to preserve your friendship much more easily.

The last thing I’ll say is that you didn’t compare him to your ex, only highlighted why he was great, so that tells me you’re hanging out with him because it’s fun, not because he’s filling a void. In fact, you spent 10 sentences enumerating Dude B’s qualities and all of 10 words on your Dude A’s suckiness. That’s about all the math you need right there.

Previously: "Scumbag" Siblings.

A Dude is one of several rotating dudes who know everything. Do you have any questions for A Dude?

Photo by Irina Fischer, via Shutterstock



349 Comments / Post A Comment

raised amongst catalogs

Am I the only one who wants to see a photo of this park ranger?

Kinloch

@vanillawaif No, you're not alone. In fact, I had to scroll up to see if she said "rugged park ranger from DC" or "in DC". Clearly I don't visit enough parks around the Nation's Capital.

raised amongst catalogs

@Kinloch Maybe we can Google him with the limited info given?

Kinloch

@vanillawaif I would, but I'm afraid of what I would find if I googled search terms like "hot park ranger" "likes dogs" and "36".

wee_ramekin

@Kinloch Don't forget "my dad".

melis

Always date park rangers. They are well versed in safety practices, they're responsible, they're outdoorsy, and they wear uniforms. Uniforms. How is this even a question.

raised amongst catalogs

@Kinloch I did it! Nothing came up but when I changed it to an image search, I found Ranger Nathan's blog. I don't think he was the ranger in question because he didn't really talk about dogs.

Beericle

@Kinloch I had the same thought. About not visiting enough Parks/CLEARLY not meeting enough 36 year old handsome park rangers. Who wants to go to Great Falls this weekend!?

RogueState

@vanillawaif I'll send you a photo of us! gimme your email address.

I ended it after he pulled a sleep assault with his dick. What the fuck, guy?

WaityKatie

@vanillawaif I'm just incredibily dubious of the whole thing, because I lived in DC for 10 years and there were zero hot 36 year old guys there.

RogueState

@WaityKatie don't worry, he was hot but a creeper

RogueState

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/meandthecreep.jpg/

rocknrollunicorn

@RogueState God, you're like way cuter than him anyway! Good riddance, Ranger Sleep Assault.

raised amongst catalogs

@RogueState AHHH! I didn't see this until just now but am glad you shared the photo. I hate it when hot and seemingly awesome guys pull a dick move (no pun intended).

MagnificentMess

@Beericle Ah! I grew up in Great Falls. I don't remember any hot park rangers though, mostly ones who looked like former members of motorcycle gangs.

WaityKatie

@RogueState You are so much hotter than he is that now I DO believe this happened in DC! Land of women being forced to date down!

Grapefruit Simmons

I saw the *hottest* fireman at Yosemite National Park this fall. So that makes him a Ranger Fireman? He looked like Kyle Chandler--only a skosh younger. He was wearing a tight navy t-shirt that said "Yosemite Fire" on the back, with khaki cargo pants. Humminahumminahummina...I had to be dragged back to the car by my friends. Of course, I saw him the day we were leaving.

raised amongst catalogs

@Grapefruit Simmons !!!!!!!!!!!!

DrFeelGood

@melis Wait, are we talking about Rangers or rangers - apparently there IS a difference! Rangers are basically cops but way hotter because of the aforementioned reasons, rangers are dorks who tell you about plants and history... (no hate, just sayin').

whateverlolawants

@DrFeelGood I just found out (at the state fair) that Rangers can arrest you for like EVERYTHING. Park rules AND regular laws. They have more power than police. I may be totally wrong about that. I just like telling people that to freak them out.

wee_ramekin

Haven't even read A Dude's reply, LW #1, but I dashed down here to say that what your boyfriend is doing is not flirting. He's crossing a way more serious line than that! I don't know what you'd actually call what he's doing, but "flirting" is innocent and light. It is NOT "...saying things like how they missed their chance to hook up when we briefly broke up, how much he likes her, how he has sex dreams about her all the time, etc.".

He also continues to engage with a girl who knows doesn't give a fig about his relationship with you. The "scary movie attack"? Why did he even go?! Why hasn't he put the kibosh on his friendship since it's very obvious that this girl does not respect you or his relationship with you?

I think a good long heart-to-heart about his behavior and how it is disrespectful to you and your relationship is overdue.

TreatYoSelf

@wee_ramekin Word.

MoonBat

@wee_ramekin : Does anyone else get the feeling that LW1 is mayyyybe....in high school still?

bookbike

@MoonBat yes. does bra touching on the bus occur elsewhere in the world? ew.

lalaland

@wee_ramekin DUDE. Also, "how do I talk to him about this, he does have a temper?!?" ACK!!!!

And NO "go boyfriend!" Why did he even go to these hook-up attacks (which sound terrifying, by the way) in the first place?!

Just ACK.

Lily Rowan

@MoonBat Yes. Poor LW#1. It gets better!

MoonBat

@heyad ...and "scary movies in the basement". The basement is either for kids, or a man cave.

wharrgarbl

@wee_ramekin LW#1's boyfriend sounds like a fucking train wreck.

Ophelia

@wee_ramekin Yes yes yes. My husband is a huge flirt. With anyone - women, men, kids, dogs - but it's a verbal thing, in public - that is really more his way of interacting with strangers than anything with an agenda. What LW #1's BF is doing is...not flirting, it's trying to get laid.

fabel

@wee_ramekin also, I am kiiinda skeptical that he "turned on the lights and invited some other people" when this girl tried to get him to "initiate"? gah

cinnamonskin

@Ophelia I am a flirt this way, too! And it occasionally causes static until the "omg are you flirting with puppies?" ubiquity of such sets in for people. I salute you as someone who trusts A Flirt.

(maybe I should write A Flirt advice.)

TreatYoSelf

@cinnamonskin As somebody who is always questioning whether the way I interact with guys is considered flirting or just being friendly and open, I would love to see more on this.

Ophelia

@cinnamonskin I will admit I trust him particularly due to the fact that the group he is Most Likely To Flirt With is puppies :)

Craftastrophies

@cinnamonskin I am A Flirt! Which is weird because I am super socially awkward. But I cannot flirt with people I actually wish to sex. Then, I just get all flustered and spill things on myself.

So if I am flirting with someone, I either am not sexually attracted to them, or know they are not to me, or there is some other barrier that makes them 'safe'.

cinnamonskin

@Ophelia also, I may spend my Saturday mornings cruising Petfinder. It's like I'm internet dating this one hound dawg. Puppies! Yay for your patience and yay for your confidence in what sounds like a lovely man.

See, I'm doing it again.

cinnamonskin

@Craftastrophies Sport Flirting! It is great practice for Sexytime Flirting, but it's also just way fun.

cmonster

@Craftastrophies Please stop describing me. It is unsettling.
<3,
A Flirt

silver flats

@cinnamonskin I desperately want/ need to read an 'A Flirt' column! I don't know how to flirt forrealz. I can only flirt with friends in a joking manner. And long story short, I like this hot dude, and I think my flirting attempts only come off as me being a nice person...a nice female person who dresses sluttily and bakes things.

cinnamonskin

@silver flats you can come over anytime with clothes to borrow and baked loveliness. (See! It's easy!)

Basically: only go as far as makes you feel just slightly ridiculous, not completely ridonkulous. Blushing is adorbs, freaking out that you are not being yourself is not.

Find your own Flirt Muse. Much like your fashion muse, this is someone whose game you can steal a few good moves from to make your own. I prefer Jimmy McNulty + Lisa Bonet's character in High Fidelity. Each to her (or his!) own.

Also, don't fake, but do get yourself excited about your own interests. if you like to read, read more. If you like to cook, try new recipes on friends and talk about them (your friends) and them (your recipes).

People flirt in church AND strip clubs, is all I'm sayin.

sceps yarx

@silver flats I am majorly A Flirt, and I've always found that the most successful flirting involves a lot of listening. Like, good listening with lots of eyecontact and smiling. People love it when someone acts genuinely interested in them.

D.@twitter

@wee_ramekin Um yeah. Pretty sure "on the bus" is referring to a big yellow school bus.

becomeriver

@Craftastrophies Late comment is late, but omg me tooooo! My default setting is "flirt gaily with all and sundry" when it is harmless and amusing, but the instant even the slightest reciprocation is shown, it's all spooked-deer-in-headlights and knocking-things-over time. I too would support a potential A Flirt column (or maybe even a special edition Flirting 101?).

Mera

@becomeriver I've moved just beyond the playground "punch the boy you like" flirting strategy to a more adult, but possibly even less effective "studiously avoid the person you like while chatting up everyone else."

I went to [religious university] and one ridiculously popular class was Preparation for Marriage. I never took the class, but loads of my friends did. One section of the class was basically flirting 101, which boils down to A.C.T.: Animated (be excitedly/animatedly interested in what the other person is saying), Close (stand slightly closer than normal), Touch (touch their forearm to emphasize a point and let your hand rest there a bit). This seems like sensible advice to me; you're letting the other person know you're interested without being over the top. If you're not an uptight Mormon, feel free to get crazy and maybe rest your hand on their thigh instead. Whoa!

Okay, now I'm totally inspired to work on my flirting.

oeditrix

@Craftastrophies Me too! This has been a lifelong problem, or would be, except that when I'm actually interested in a guy I just come straight out and make a play for him. I am the worst person in the world at ambiguity, I'm just in agony until I make a move. Which means that flirting is reserved for people I have no interest in at all. And also that I very rarely have the archetypal feminine experience of being pursued. But oh well, I get more of the action that I actually want that way.

oeditrix

@silver flats Dude, ask the guy out. Why do women have to flirt with guys enough to elicit a response? Flirt just enough to see whether he's repelled by you, and if not, give it a shot. He can only say no.

becomeriver

@Mera Thigh touching, whoa now! Those crazy religious folk. That acronym is adorable, though. Completely sensible! Just a wee bit difficult to enact in real life serious business flirting situations, but practice WILL make perfect one day. Hopefully. Maybe.

sweetleah

@wee_ramekin That is so true about finding a "flirt muse"! A few years ago I lived with a friend who is an outrageous flirt- she actually has trouble making girl friends because she is seen as such a threat (oick!) But she is/was a TREMENDOUS flirt and I learned well! I like to think that I can turn it off a little better that she can, but I know I went from being awkward with guys to quite...un-awkward...over the course of our year-long rental apartment relationship. My milkshake now brings all the boys to the yard [bats eyelashes seductively at all pinners]

Saiko

@fabel Telling is whom he did *not* invite!

silver flats

@sceps yarx yeah i do that, but I was taught that it's just the polite thing to do.

Mimi Killjoy

@heyad It's called frottage.

miwome

@Mera The terrible part for me is that I'm GREAT at A.C.T. (that acronym just makes me think about standardized tests and applying to college, which is weird because a) I am a good six-seven years out from that process and b) I didn't even TAKE the ACT), but terrible at taking it to the next level. I don't know how to make A Move, as opposed to several lower-case moves that maintain plausible deniability.

Now I'm just brooding over all the time the dude I like and I have spent ACTing at each other without it going further. Sigh.

JessicaLovejoy

I'd like to suggest a new Hairpin feature called "Bitch/Dick, You Already Know The Answer To This One." It would feature letters with no replies because they already know the answer to this one.

Also, I'd really like a Hairpin message board, but I'll take that up at the next meeting.

noodge

@JessicaLovejoy ooh yes! please? (re: message board)

TreatYoSelf

@JessicaLovejoy Are there really meetings? I ADORE The Hairpin but there are definitely some functionality issues that could be improved a bit to make communication between Hairpinner be a little easier and more intuitive. Hairpinner focus group perhaps?

ThundaCunt

@JessicaLovejoy Bitch, you already know the answer!!

that felt good...I'm going to say that alot!!

Yahtzii

@JessicaLovejoy Oh girl I would totally up in that message board business, posting about my accidental internet creeping and profile fondling.

Don't bring that up at the meeting in case they reconsider.

raised amongst catalogs

@JessicaLovejoy BYAKTATTO!

RK Fire

@JessicaLovejoy: Can we use this gif?

cabot_cove_syndrome

@JessicaLovejoy Brilliant! I think for the next week, I'll simply answer all work emails / queries in my fancy job like that. "Dear Bitch/Dick, You Already Know The Answer To This One." Next!

Craftastrophies

@JessicaLovejoy I heartily endorse both of these concepts.

I realised last night that I generally refer to 'the Hairpin forums' even though it's clearly not a forum, because that's what they feel like.

ohfiddlefaddle

@Craftastrophies YES! message board. message booooaaarrdddd!!!! Edith, are you listening?! Think of all the hours I could while away reading hilarious exchanges! Even though I guess I already do that!

Danzig!

@JessicaLovejoy Can we do something similar with this? http://i.imgur.com/zocRg.gif

Ham Snadwich

@Danzig! Oh man, I need to know the story behind that one.

Danzig!

@JessicaLovejoy Last week Bill O had Tavis Smiley and Cornel West on his show to talk about OWS (I think that was the topic at hand) and it went about as well as you could expect.

noodge

i haven't even read this AT ALL yet, but I just have to say: thank FUCK that this just came up because my day has been horrifically boring and I'm about to start staging experiments with office supplies.

TreatYoSelf

@teenie My day is actually keeping me busy (a nice change of pace), but I did get called a "fucking bitch" by a crazy person (I'm in social services) over the phone. It's happened enough in my career that it doesn't bother me personally but you know...nobody likes to be called that.

lizkimballet

@teenie seriously! except instead of horrifically boring, my day has just been horrific. I sprained my ankle (like full out wipeout in an alley) on my way to an interview. and now it hurts like a mother even after 2 advil because I couldn't postpone the interview and just had to trudge along and up multiple stairs. main point: I love ask a columns and they make my day!

thebestjasmine

@lizkimballet Oh nooo, so sorry about your ankle. Lots of advil, ice, elevate immediately please. And I hope you did well on your interview, ankle notwithstanding.

noodge

@lizkimballet @momentisaflower YIKES! sorry for the crappy days! makes one wish that they kept a flask of wine in their desk.

(my day was so boring that I just whacked a ganglion cyst on my wrist with a letter opener to rupture it. it worked. ouch)

wee_ramekin

@thebestjasmine Heh. "Notwithstanding". i c wut u did there.

thebestjasmine

@wee_ramekin Hahahahaha, I did not even do that on PURPOSE.

lizkimballet

@wee_ramekin hahahahaha
and thanks @thebestjasmine! I'm elevating now and I do think it went well!
and @teenie OWWWW the thought of that made me forget about my ankle temporarily. ow ow ow

Ophelia

@lizkimballet Also, don't forget that you can actually take more advil if you need to. If you bring said sprained ankle to the doctor, they'll prob give you a prescription for higher-strength advil (which you can create yourself by just taking 3 instead of 2). YMMV. <3, An Often-Sprained Person

ormaisonogrande

@teenie Ooh, that happened to me once, except I fell down the stairs on my way out the door. I totally got the job! So hopefully you'll have the same experience. Crossing my fingers for you...

thebestjasmine

@Ophelia Yes, I'm an often sprained person too (and recently had surgery on said easily sprainable ankle), and yes, you can take way more than the bottle says. Just eat something so it doesn't hurt your stomach.

Ophelia

@thebestjasmine I have to go to a thing tonight and wear heels, and now I am really nervous, because I am just thinking about my ankles. Dammit.

wharrgarbl

@teenie Just remember: It's not an experiment if you don't have a hypothesis.

noodge

@wharrgarbl - there was a hypothesis! it was: if I smack my cyst with a heavy, hard object, it will rupture and likely hurt. HYPOTHESIS PROVEN.

wharrgarbl

@teenie But is it disprovable?

raised amongst catalogs

@Ophelia Now we're ALL thinking about your ankles. Careful with your Uncle Wiggilies!

Ophelia

@vanillawaif Glad I could be of service.

bangs
bangs

@teenie Today I've been experimenting on whether or not the controls in my office have any control whatsoever on my heater. I suspect no, but they don't control the lights, so....

thebestjasmine

@teenie I just read a blog post about that the other day! The lady in that post smacked her cyst and it didn't work, so I am happy for you that you were successful.

TreatYoSelf

@thebestjasmine @thebestjasmine Now I'm singing "Smack My Cyst Up" to myself to the tune of the Prodigy song. Oy.

Coal Tar Epoxy

@teenie You can also take Advil and Tylenol together to get double bang for your buck. Love, Klutz Who Should Just Keep Wearing Ankle Braces

contrary

@everyone ladies! I hope ya'll have better days tomorrow!

hideously

@teenie See the trouble with keeping a flask of wine in your desk is that you have to keep replacing it...

miwome

@TreatYoSelf In that situation I usually throw my pen at the wall, then after hanging up yell "cuntface cockmonkey what the hell-ass-shit." I find it very therapeutic. (Even more therapeutic: quitting my customer service job.)

MoonBat

This A Dude is verrrrrrry nice!

bookbike

OhNo! I just ran down here real quick to say: L1 - Get The Fuck Out! Now!

Polina

@heyad I know. I read it and immediately said DITCH! Everyone wants to try and work it out but just save yourself the heartache. I know this all too well.

Jolie Kerr

The last letter writer really needs to medicate that SEVERE case of neurotic disorder she's working on. Jesus lady.

City_Dater

@Jolie Kerr

Hell, yes.

If I met a great guy on the doorstep while I was moving out on my jerk ex who did not make me happy, I would have stopped to get a phone number.
If you're out enjoying your life rather than home crying over the failed relationship, you're ready to date again. Seriously.

ThundaCunt

@Jolie Kerr LMAO....for realsies!!

ENJOY LIFE! I am not understanding this time frame needed to make you feel okay about being happy!! I say a resounding..."Bitch, you already know the answer!!"

Jolie Kerr

@City_Dater @ThundaCunt THANK YOU. I didn't want to be so harsh but seriously lady? You wasted A Dude's time on "I got dumped, got over it, met someone new but waaaaahhh is that okay??"

Sorry to be a broken record, but Jesus lady.

lalaland

@Jolie Kerr Not harsh. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop while reading (And THEN I found out he was like, a serial killer?) and it didn't...

Lily Rowan

@Jolie Kerr Aw, I think that last lady is also a young lady (like the first lady), and this is probably her first significant breakup.

cinnamonskin

@Lily Rowan agreed. Also, maybe her friends give her bad advice, like "oh, you have to waiiiiiiit, you haven't felt guilty enough yet."

alliepants

@Jolie Kerr Aw! It's called "living in New York and listening too much to your friends." I've been there.

Bertie

@Lily Rowan I am LW4 and you are right on the nose! This is my first real break up. And my friends have all told me that I am just going to end up heartbroken again, so I don't really know who to listen to?

thebestjasmine

@Bertie I mean, you may end up heartbroken again, because most relationships end at some point. But that is no reason to not date this guy who seems awesome, and wait for...what to happen?

Basically, listen to The Hairpin, because we are Right and your friends are Wrong.

mackymoo

@Bertie You are totally fine girl. I felt the same way too after breaking up with First Real Boyfriend of 3(!) years only to seriously fall for a new guy a month later. We were both recently single/totally afraid the other person didn't like us, so we didn't start dating until 3 months after but it's been almost 3 years since then and we're totally good. I also worried that I wasn't single for long enough, but it does not matter so much if the new person is the Right Person.

Lily Rowan

@thebestjasmine Yeah, that!

If your main goal is not to get your heart broken, just don't date.

Megasus

@Jolie Kerr Soooo am I a horrible person for basically getting dumped last Thursday and not really caring? Because it happened, and I was just like, "Shit, who's gonna watch my dog on Tuesdays?" and "Ugh. MOVING."

Jolie Kerr

@Bertie Aww. I'm sorry then, I was being a jerk. (THIS SEEMS TO BE A TREND LATELY SORRY!!)

The thing is! You are fine! You mourned, you got over it, you met someone else and you're having fun so don't worry about it so much!!

Jolie Kerr

@Megan Patterson@facebook No way! Your feelings are your feelings and they don't make you a horrible person for feeling them. Sounds like you were relieved to get out of it? But also, sometimes the bad feelings don't kick in for a while, so if you were asking for my advice I'd say to do you for a while and see if any feeeeeelings crop up and if they don't? Git on back out there, cowgirl!

wee_ramekin

@Megan Patterson@facebook Eh, I don't think Jolie was irked because the LW is moving on quickly, I think she's irked because most of us should be so blessed to have this "problem". I don't think she was hatin' on the recently-dumped-and-over-it!

wee_ramekin

@Jolie Kerr Ooops, sorry Jolie! I see that you have jumped to your own defense much better than I ever could.

AAAAAAAND LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE

chevyvan

@Bertie I *WISH* this had happened to me after my last boyfriend dumped me. EMBRACE LIFE.

MrsLlama

@Bertie YES, GURL, relax and enjoy enjoying your new dude. Don't overthink stuff like "am I feeling sad enough about this?" because that will just drive you nuts. ENJOYMENT.

VeronicaSawyer

@Bertie Sweetie, your friends are just jealous that you've found a nice boy so soon after your big breakup.

thebestjasmine

LW1, good lord, he texted her that he has SEX DREAMS ABOUT HER. That is not flirting! That's the leadup to a booty call (sorry for use of the word booty, for those who dislike it, but it was necessary there).

noodge

@thebestjasmine ...yeah - at best this juicebox is just using this flirtation as crazy wank fodder. still is gross and inappropriate.

Kinloch

@thebestjasmine Exactly. That's what we like to call "a red flag".

Craftastrophies

@thebestjasmine Bootie call?

EvilAuntiePeril

@Craftastrophies Shootie call.

queenofbithynia

What the hell is it with Dudes, is it a rule that they can't be too sensible too many questions in a row or the blog explodes? Don't fuck somebody to say thanks, okay? Don't fucken 'present' sexing to them "as a 'thank you for being a good guy' and don't tell other people to do that! Don't! Stop it!

and yeah I read the part about he can return the favor and I just. don't. care.

having said that, all the other answers were totally solid and really good.

MoonBat

@queenofbithynia Um, I think waking someone you love for a morning romp is nowhere in the same zip code as "presenting your body as a thank you gift". I mean, is it not like waking someone with an awesome backrub, except that the pleasure is mutual, and the goal is some quality bonding time!

sox
sox

@queenofbithynia I read that as instructions to get him to wake up and have breakfast with her, but I do also agree that there are lots of nice things to do for someone that are not sex.

Judith Slutler

@MoonBat no kidding, geez!

wallsdonotfall

@MoonBat, it's not a constructive suggestion for someone who doesn't like morning sex, though, either. Can we come up with better options if the sex-as-thank-you doesn't appeal?

- Tickets to something awesome now that you can spend time together (which, uh, given that this was apparently submitted at least two months ago...?)

redheaded&crazy

@queenofbithynia I dunno I kind of see the sex part as enticement to wake up, the breakfast as the thank you. I dunno if that makes it better. I kind of like the idea myself! Without meaning to reduce guys to total horn dogs, I love the idea of being woken up for sex :D

I also was in a relationship with somebody who considered 5 PM a reasonable hour to wake up on weekends and it was really difficult for me to deal with. I tried this occasionally with SOME but not ENOUGH success.

queenofbithynia

@MoonBat Well of course it isn't in the same zip code! That's why it's such a gross thing to suggest! "But, I would feel extremely appreciated if such a thing was presented with a “thank you for being a good guy”" are a Dude's words, not mine. A dude's gross, gross words.

Or if sex is not implied and the dude is literally suggesting that just waking someone up wearing pretty underwear is such a nice thing that he won't mind losing a couple hours of sleep just to gaze at her for 15 minutes, I withdraw my suggestion that he is offensive and suggest instead that he is insane.

Mad Dog

@queenofbithynia Or unless they invariably have to pee THE ABSOLUTE MINUTE they wake up, because that could be messy.

MoonBat

@queenofbithynia : Hahaha, if my man wakes me in the morning for aerobics (and he does! Yay!) and happens to throw in a little "you're such an awesome girlfriend", I'd consider that completely separate from the sex, not a "I only let you touch me with your gross girl parts because I feel like i owe you SOMETHING, *sigh*, for being a decent human being".'

karion

@queenofbithynia: just want to make sure I am clear here - you shouldn't fuck to say thanks?

Does that include blow jobs? Because if it does, I am the very worst kind of feminist. One who fucks for whatever fucking reason works for me and my consensual partner.

Kinloch

@wallsdonotfall : Yes, we need better options than just sex. Also, from what I could tell, the class was over, so these late nights apart were coming to an end, correct? She wanted to give him something to say thank you for being my supportive partner? That does fall more in line with dinner at a fancy steakhouse, or tickets to a sporting event/concert territory.

redheaded&crazy

@karion 2 thumbs up for thank you blow jobs!

I guess this is a different strokes for different folks kind of thing.

gobblegirl

@queenofbithynia I disagree, or perhaps just read it differently. She said that she'd been under stress a lot, overworked, overtired, etc. Presumably that means that she wasn't able to be a really good girlfriend or an "active" participant in the relationship. I also assume that once she's done, she'll want to celebrate by spending more time together, some of which time will be in bed. Extra-special "all about him" sex could be a natural way to go...and of course will be fun for her as well.
As far as I can tell, the Dude is just suggesting that, hey, why not make the I'm-finally-free-let's-celebrate-by-getting-our-rocks-off-together fun happen in the morning? That way he'll be reminded of the benefits of seeing her in the early morning light.

madge

@redheadedandcrazy heh heh

laurel

@karion: Yes, sex as a reward or thank you is not unfeminist. Initiating a special sexytime is more than offering up your body, it also shows affection and that you've been paying attention, that you know things about your partner, such as what pleases him or her. It's not, 'Oh, I'm handing over my body to your for your pleasure, do with it what you will while I mentally and emotionally check out I guess.'

On the other hand, I'm not sure that waking up your non-morning-person partner for sex would be my first choice in a treat for him. Maybe blow him after work?

iceberg

@laurel Yes to everything you just said!

PS is it unfeminist to trade sexual favors for housework (with one's significant other)? ...A friend wants to know.

redheaded&crazy

@iceberg I think the only 2 important questions are: Is this consensual? and Is this fun for me? If the answer is yes to both, then I don't seen anything unfeminist about it (although I think saying things are unfeminist is weird to begin with)

less housework + more sex, awesome combo (for your friend)!

laurel

@iceberg: I'm calling it: sex-for-housework is The New Feminism.

karion

@redheadedandcrazy @laurel @et al: I think my response sounded bitchier than I intended! But I think we are all in agreement - there are no rights and wrongs when everything is consensual.

If the only time you give blow jobs or have sex is to say thanks, well, that sure doesn't sound healthy, but that sure didn't seem to be the case here. In any event, as between theater tickets,a dinner out, or a blow job before bed, I am pretty sure which one my guy would most appreciate as a token of thanks.

queenofbithynia

@redheadedandcrazy, @karion, @iceberg et al.: I am more or less withdrawing from the actual substance of this sexy sexfight I started but, uh, I never accused favor-sex of being unfeminist. What I said it was was gross, like its martyred cousin duty-sex. Isn't that a strident and presumptuous enough judgment to earn vocal disagreement on its own merits? Without dragging in the isn't-either-unfeminist business? I thought it was.

laurel

@queenofbithynia: I don't think equating "gross" with "unfeminist" in a ladies doing things with their bodies context is that much of a reach.

And I disagree that thank-you sex is necessarily gross. I mean, it can be, sure, but I don't think it has to be joyless duty-sex out of a sense of obligation. If it's a gesture that says, "I appreciate you so much it makes me want to bone you in a way that I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy," I think that's rather nice actually. Gratitude can, for me, stimulate the desire for my mate. I'm pretty sure I'm not doing anything gross.

BTW, you're not withdrawing if you're still here commenting, but sexy sexfight is A+ so you come out ahead here IMHO.

queenofbithynia

@laurel Withdrawing from the serious substance of the discussion only! Not withdrawing from insubstantial minutiae about the exact connotations of the words I did and didn't use, I would never.

Lili L.

@queenofbithynia I'm with you. "Thank-you" sex is, to me, duty sex. Nobody writes thank-you notes for pleasure, and I don't want my sex life bound up with a set of household debits and credits. Frankly, that horrifies me. YMMV, of course. But I'd add that if I want to have breakfast with my dude, I want to have breakfast with my dude. Not sex. His company. Starting the morning together. Those are different things. If I'm staying out late a lot to adjust to his schedule and meet his social needs (hopefully without expecting sex as a good behavior award), then I think it's reasonable to ask for a similar sacrifice once a month. The "economics" of that make sense. Getting sex mixed up with it all doesn't--without getting into whether it's feminist or unfeminist, I think it's just dangerous for the health of the relationship.

laurel

@Lili L.: The rush of gratitude I feel over not having to do the dishes washes readily into desire, in my experience.

I really hate doing the dishes.

karion

@queenofbithynia: I fear that my habit of wagering various sex acts would gross you out in ways that would prevent you from ever again reading the Pin.

It is simply disgusting how casually I engage in sex with my partner.

Hellcat

@MoonBat This might just be the practical side of me coming out, but I read the sex part more as advice to not go crazy agonizing over the perfect material gift while her life is so busy and hectic right now (possibly leaving little time for any sex, "thank you" or otherwise) when she's got a really good way to express her appreciation for her relationship already at her disposal. I'm just not seeing it as payback or "goods exchanged for services" when there are no demands or arrangements or expectations... and it would make both parties happy. If she is happy to do the "thank-you sex," and no one is making her feel like she owes him, or is seriously viewing this as relationship currency, why not? (I've been known to throw some, "I see that you're a bit neurotic and stressed out" action at my own BF.) It's just one more reason to add to the list of good reasons to have sex with an awesome BF.

And, oh, Letter Writer #1, that sounds awful. I am admittedly probably less OK than many about an SO doing any "innocent flirting," so my threshold is low. But that sounds beyond innocent. And it kind of sounds like he knows it would bother you if you knew (which you do, but he doesn't know that), which is even worse. People have different ideas about what is acceptable but if one does it knowingly, that's kind of assholey.

redheaded&crazy

I am not interested in sexy sexfights, only sexy sex. :) what I have learned from this thread is that different people approach sex and relationships differently AND ITS BLOWING MY MIND Y'ALL.

Just kidding. Sooo let's all just do whatever's fun for us and not do things we don't find fun!

queenofbithynia

@karion Huh, ok. I don't know why you'd suspect that because I dislike one thing you like, I'd dislike some random unconnected thing you also like. Casual sex and thank-you sex are no more interlinked than brunching and kittens.

karion

@queenofbithynia: Sorry, I'll draw that line for you:

Sometimes, I have gratitude in my heart when I have casual sex.

It feels good to confess.

(God help me if this is coming across as bitchy or mean-spirited - my intent over here is playfulness. I think I need to use more emoticons. I agree with redheadedandcrazy - the differences make us interesting.)

Lili L.

@Hellcat I really like your reading of A Dude's response--esp. if no one is viewing sex as relationship currency.

I do think it's weird how natural we seem to think that is, though, and--especially--how easy it is to slip from thinking of the "services rendered" thing as a naughty joke to taking it semi-seriously. That doesn't seem to be the case here at all (or for @karion and @laurel above--YAY), so this is a more general comment, but I know plenty of ladies who've given dudes blow-jobs after a date because they didn't feel like having sex and/or felt guilty. It's not a crazy leap. (I must be a prude, because if I didn't like you, there's no way we're even kissing, and your equipment is staying neatly packed away in your pants.)

The thing is, if sex is something you both enjoy, thinking of it as a gift is just weird. I'd be genuinely perplexed if the BF said "I'll eat you out if you clean the fridge." (If he meant it. If it was a joke, I'd be on the floor.) And if I said, "I'll take us both out to a nice dinner with our money if you take the garbage out," I'd feel like kind of a jerk--it's *our* money, *our* sex, but I'm claiming to give it to him. Only if one person sees it as unpleasurable or neutral, or sex as something one person gives or takes, does it make any kind of sense to barter, or to think of it as a giveable--a noun instead of a verb.

redheaded&crazy

@Lili L. I definitely agree that viewing sex as a currency like "oh well I gave you x last time, so now you're in the red and you need to do y to make up the balance" is a clear sign of the end times for a relationship.

And I DEFINITELY agree that we have this weird sex-guilt instilled in us which is total bullshit and anybody who makes you (general you) feel that way, I will accuse THAT person of being an unfeminist POS.

It is tricky. It's one thing to talk about it, and it's another to actually actively construct a healthy sex life for yourself that everybody is happy with. It's hard to talk about, vulnerable to express what you want, people's desires don't match up, etc etc.

But the thing for ME is, if sex is something you both enjoy, it's kind of fun to have it go down for different reasons. It's not like "oh thanks for doing that for me so I GUESS I can reward you" it's like "mmm thanks babe you're fucking hot right now and I'm gonna make you feel goooood" :P

cosmia

@queenofbithynia See, I dunno, because I definitely don't view thank-you sex as duty sex, especially if it's a thank-you I instigate. My dude (but not my last dude sadly) doesn't view the act of being able to have sex with me as something he is entitled to every so often, and he doesn't expect it in return as a thank-you or as an "I'm sorry I've been overworked/haven't been able to hang with you lately". But like...for some reason it makes me really happy to just be like "hey it's cool that you've been so cool about this, let's fuck like rabbits", and he appreciates that! I'm being really repetitive and blah blah my anecdata, but what I'm trying to get at is that thank-you sex is initiated by me and I have complete agency over whether or not I want to have sex with dude for this particular reason.

Inkling

@cosmia I agree that being grateful towards someone makes them way sexier, and makes me want to have sex with them more. BUT Lili is absolutely right in saying it's a weird thing to "give", and the lady's asking what she can give her boyfriend. I feel like she can bone him in the rose-tint of gratitude and then afterwards treat him to a fancy new restaurant, because one of those is a gift and the other one is a consequence.

rocknrollunicorn

@redheadedandcrazy Wait... did we date? I'm sorry about the 5 pm wake up thing, I'm just a night owl. I hope you find someone whose schedule matches yours better than mine does ;)

Hellcat

@Lili L. Yeah, I wouldn't want to actively and officially think of it as a "gift" either, but I think that might just be, for me (and for lack of a better term), a semantics issue. I am having a bad time trying to figure out how to word this... like, I would not want my BF to specifically and only think of sex as a show of gratitude (or be like, "Hey, I totally forgot your birthday, but here's some sex for you!") but it's OK if he happens to already feel gratitudey for something and it prompts him to want to have sex? See, no -- I am not saying this well at all. It can't be the reason to have sex, but I'm cool if it just ends up happening to be a reason that we do? (Does that work?) And also, because (and this sounds so bad the way I am going to say it, but it's early, cold, rainy, and my office coffee is absolutely hideous) sex is generally an expected part of the relationship, no one should run around doling it out only on gift occasions like... coupons or something, or making the other person feel like s/he doesn't deserve sexing unless s/he earns it? But, here in the letter, it really did sound to me like A Dude was picking up that maybe this couple hadn't had much time for that lately, and that it could end up being a "gift" for both of them and the relationship (oh, that sounded corny!) and maybe even prompt some breakfast dates until their schedules sync up again? (Then there's another part of me that thinks, "If a couple likes sex as gifts, what the hell do I care?" As long as everyone is OK with that... how would I even know what they're up to anyway?)

Now I'm rambling -- I'm sorry...

oeditrix

@Hellcat Yeah, I had a similar thought, but then I was like, whatever. It's fine. At a certain point in a relationship between grown people you have to start scheduling sex 12 hours in advance. I wouldn't wake someone up by surprise, I would be like, "Hmmm, how does your calendar look for tomorrow morning? Do you think you could squeeze me in?" (That's what HE said! Hahaha ok nevermind.)

oeditrix

@queenofbithynia Having read further up the thread, I see I was not the only one a little squicked by this. But for me it was the "ooh-la-la sexy seduction" part that was weird. I think she should feel it out and see if he likes the idea first. Otherwise there's the possibility of that horrible moment when you get all dolled up and it turns out to be overkill. Even though Dude tries to make it gender-equal, I think ladies are much more likely to put themselves out there in this way, and then feel horribly rejected if the guy just isn't in the mood or whatever. The assumption is that guys ALWAYS want sex (not true) and that women GIVE sex because they're feeling generous (also not true). I think it was just a slightly dumb way to phrase a nice sentiment. Dude blind spot.

noodge

LW4: the fact that you can crush on this guy the way you are means you're probably fine. it's when your brain starts to freak out in a strangely ptsd way that you need to be concerned. it doesn't sound like this is happening at all. have a glass of wine. it will be fine.

wee_ramekin

LW #4, I would like to have your problems, please and thank you.

SuperGogo

@wee_ramekin Seriously! I'm this close to pulling out a "congratulations. how wonderful."

wee_ramekin

@SuperGogo I guess I should clarify my post by saying that I appreciate the fact that LW #4 is taking the time to think about this, I really do. I just really wish that the kind of romantic problems that I had were of the "I just got out of a relationship that I didn't really cry over all that much and now I'm about to begin an amazing relationship with a long-lost friend" variety.

Yeah. My problems are not like that at all.

melis

@wee_ramekin Sounds like a certain taco-shack employee hasn't responded favorably?

wee_ramekin

@melis Heeeee! I'm actually going to leave the note today! I even put on a matching lacy bra and underwear for this monumentous occasion. Not that she will see those, but I need to muster all the courage I possibly can. {[(OMG I am so scared that I am hiding my feelings in multiple, grammatically incorrect sets of parens!)]}

madge

@wee_ramekin squee! i am excited for you and will expect a full report tomorrow!!

laurel

@wee_ramekin: I've been looking at the local taco truck differently since that thread. Courage!

Ophelia

@wee_ramekin Ooooh! Please please tell us how it goes!

iceberg

@wee_ramekin fingers crossed for you! The magical power of matching underwear shall surely prevail. : )

ironhoneybee

@wee_ramekin Yay! Good luck.

wee_ramekin

@madge, @laurel, @Ophelia, @iceberg, @ironhoneybee, @melis Thanks! I will totally update you gals tomorrow! I really really love that everyone is being so supportive. Maybe I'll finish my note with "PS - People On The Internet want us to be together"! (I won't.)

thebestjasmine

@madge Tomorrow? What are you talking about you need an update tomorrow? I need an update TODAY, like as soon as you do it, preferably in this thread so I'll get the comment in my email.

joie

@wee_ramekin good luck! I hope for much swooning on her part!

Hellcat

@wee_ramekin OOOH! This is exciting! Is it weird to say that? I don't care. Good luck! Ooh!

ELECTROMAGNETIC CHAOS

@wee_ramekin: Leave a note? Did you scratch his car or something?

emilylou

@wee_ramekin Ahhhh! ([{GOOD LUCK}]) I also fully support the wearing of sexy underwear to bolster confidence, even if you are the only one who knows you're sporting it. It totally works.

wee_ramekin

@EVERYONE Youuu guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuyyyyyyyyyyyyyyys!! I went to the taco shack - all pumped up - and SHE WASN'T THERE! Even though this is the night I always see her there! Now all your kind words (and my sexy underwear) have been for naught!

Oh, also, I ate my feelings of rage and despair and ordered five (yes, 5) tacos. FML.

I...I guess I will just have to try again the next time we propitiously see each other. I'm just so bummed - this is so anti-climactic...

:o(

thebestjasmine

@wee_ramekin Ahhhhh! The five tacos were totally necessary. I hope they were delicious. Does she only work on Tuesdays? Can you have tacos every day until I see her? Why am I so invested in this (I totally am)?

emilylou

@wee_ramekin AHHHHHHHHHHH!

I was all excited when I saw that you posted something new... and now I'm disappointed too! (Although obv not as bummed as you are, but arrrghh!) I hope at least the tacos are delicious. Are you going to keep the note with you in your bag so you will have it handy?! Don't let this bump in the road deter you from trying again!

Dammit, taco shack and your fluctuating staff shifts!
(Maybe she took the night off to buy some sexy underwear to build up courage for the next time she sees YOU?)

wee_ramekin

@emilylouise, @thebestjasmie I love you guys so much. Thanks for your support. I really really hope that we can meet in the IRL some day!

joie

@wee_ramekin :( this could turn out to be a good thing! Maybe the next time you see her you'll have a few less jitters? consider this a dress rehearsal for the Real Deal? regardless, such a bummer! Many tacos were completely called for, and I'm sending you a margarita from afar. <3

angelinha

@wee_ramekin Also replying to this thread so I can get the email when you update. Good luck!!!!!! This is better than this season of Gossip Girl!

Inkling

@wee_ramekin WHAT IF SHE'S SICK AND NEEDS COMFORTING?
Please don't do what I would and immediately ask why she missed a day. It's very "Wednesdays and Saturdays except twice last month you skipped the weekend."

Hellcat

@wee_ramekin Aww, man! But, from where I sit, five tacos = a night that is certainly not a total loss! And maybe this is an excuse to buy yourself a present in the form of some more cute matching underwear! Why not?

Ophelia

@wee_ramekin Total bummer! But 5 tacos is awesome, and now you've had a trial run. Hope it goes swimmingly when you do see her!!

iceberg

@wee_ramekin Boo I came here specifically for taco-chick-pick-up news! I need to know how this episode ends!!!

smidge

@wee_ramekin also responding to this thread because I want an update IMMEDIATELY. git it, girl!

rabswom

@wee_ramekin I also think the tacos were necessary. I hope she's there next time that you go!

LRMG

@wee_ramekin !!!! Sorry I am just catching up on my Hairpin reading. I wanted to share my story of leaving a note in a food setting. It was with a guy at a coffee house and I went up to him and said "I do come here for the coffee but mostly I come here for you" and then handed him a note with my number. It was totally lame but we totally ended up having a lot of hot sex!! I think you should hand over the note and say something, but not as pervy as me. I guarantee 100% it will work out when you do meet up with her. But you should try and do the say something when you pass the note.

sox
sox

LW #2:
1. YES. Mornings are just a thing that some people can't handle, okay?
2. My research has indicated that waking someone up with extra special kisses in the nether regions is the most guaranteed way to have a fun and happy, smooth-relationship day.

TreatYoSelf

@sox Yeah, people seem to think it's weird that I am NOT into morning sex, but I am so not a morning person. I can't get excited when I'm so groggy. It used to make me so furious because my ex (who was fully aware of my dislike of morning sex) used to rub his boner up against me to try to make it happen. Yeeeeeah, not so much.

battlestarlet

@momentisaflower Ugh. I hate morning sex too. I've had entire relationships end over it. Bad breath. Having desperately to use the bathroom. Tired. Moody. Hungry. I prefer afternoon delight.

thebestjasmine

@sox Totally agreed on 1, I am not a morning person at all, and getting up early to have breakfast with someone (breakfast, in a HOME, on a weekday???) would be above and beyond for me. That said, I love morning sex, and I am fine with being woken up for it, because then I can just roll back over in bed.

Artressa Vandelay

@momentisaflower: I HATE morning and cuss out my alarm on a daily basis, but I am totally into morning sex on the weekends! Best way to wake up. On work days; however, I am lucky if I can even muster a nod at someone who says, "Good Morning" to me before 9:30.

Bebe

@sox Hmm..I think it depends on the morning. I hate mornings, and am not a fan of morning sex but can, on weekends, be persuaded. HOWEVER, if anyone woke me up several hours before I absolutely had to wake up during the week, for sex or for breakfast or for any other reason besides the building was on fire, it most definitely would not be a happy smooth-relationship day at my house.

Craftastrophies

@thebestjasmine I am NOT a morning person, and I love me some morning sex, but I have to intiatate. This is because once I am awake, I am awake, and sometimes I prefer to float in a fuzz of sleep and have snuggles. Sometimes sex is a sharp lance, piercing the warm glow of sleepy snuggles. That was more phallic than I meant.

Basically, morning sex is great. Morning touching me while I'm semi conscious? Not so great.

oeditrix

@battlestarlet To me, morning sex feels kind of . . . submerged. Even the orgasms aren't as good for some reason. Evening sex is way better but cuts into sleep time. I suggest, as I recently read somewhere, throwing a chicken in the oven to roast for an hour and hitting it right then. THEN you get to eat roast chicken just after sex! The best!

ranran

Ahhhhhhhh waiiiiiiiiit! I'm 24 years old and was dating a 36-year-old until recently and now I have to consider that this may be daddy issues range?!?!?

noodge

@ranran : I don't think it's the age-range that is questionable, it's that she only just met her dad, and this guy has an uncanny resemblance to her new-found father. I don't really have an opinion about whether it's a problem or not, but I think that's what they were addressing.

ranran

@teenie I know, and that totally makes sense. It's just that it never even occurred to me that that kind of age difference even had a possibility for those kinds of issues. Because even though I know it's not the main point, I don't think she would have mentioned it if that wasn't a (small) part of it.

Lily Rowan

@ranran Eh, I went out with a guy the same age as me (maybe as much as two years older) who reminded me too much of my father to date him.

iceberg

@ranran Also is your dad only 42? The small age gap between dude and dad, I would think, is more significant than the large gap between chick & dude in this case.

thebestjasmine

@Lily Rowan Hell, I went on a date with someone with my father's name and it freaked me out too much to continue.

SarcasticFringehead

@thebestjasmine Heh. The guy I just married has the same name as my dad AND my maternal granddad. (And both those men are divorced and remarried. So.)

candybeans

@SarcasticFringehead ah, i'm late to this party, but my fiance has my (estranged, not-missed) dad's (and HIS dad's, my grandpa's) name, and his MOM has my MOM's name! ack! but, Mr. F doesn't shorten his name, and my dad & grandpa do. I know: Dr. Freud, line 5, for @candybeans...

Oliver St. John Mollusc

LW #4!! You kissed a boy you like, and who likes you! UGH, I KNOW! And you're both single? Are you 100% sure you're not Rory Gilmore?

Oliver St. John Mollusc

I hasten to add that if you are, that would be awesome.

HeyThatsMyBike

@quickdrawkiddo Also please tell us that this guy is Jess and you went to find him at his bookstore after you worked on the Obama campaign. Because now that his teen angst days and parental issues are behind him and he is a legitimate businessman, you two will work! And you're right, Logan is a weenie and really didn't make you happy and I'm glad it didn't take you long to get over him.

Bertie

@quickdrawkiddo Hahahaha, hello, I am LW4 and this comment made me just, deliriously happy. I am not Rory. Sadface. But I do make pro/con lists for everything, including this very situation!

HeyThatsMyBike

@Bertie It is weird that you are here writing comments instead of making out with that guy right now. GO MAKE OUT! Then call Lauren Graham and tell her all about it.

mackymoo

@HeyThatsMyBike I'm so glad someone else knows how that show ended. Because it was exactly like that.

HeyThatsMyBike

@mackymoo Oh yeah. There is definitely a correct answer to the question of Rory Gilmore's future.

sevanetta

@HeyThatsMyBike Adding my voice to the chorus of people agreeing that this is absolutely how it all works out for Rory and Jess. Yay Jess

melis

@sevanetta Oh you all could not possibly be more wrong if you were trying to win a wronging contest.

The Lady of Shalott

"I also found out about a suspicious incident on a bus. She says there was some cuddling and bra touching and he says it was “accidental” if anything happened."

Am I the only one wondering what the fuck this was all about? What kind of bus are we talking about? If it was the Greyhound then I can see a cuddling incident because hell, I cuddle with friends on the Greyhound. But if it's a CITY BUS and there was accidental touching....ew, gross, PDA, disgusting. Need more information.

battlestarlet

@The Lady of Shalott I think @MoonBat hit the nail on the head with her comment above. Definitely high school and, in my opinion, definitely the band bus. Ahhh, the band bus. Those were some good times.

Brunhilde

@The Lady of Shalott School Bus.

The Lady of Shalott

@Brunhilde Suddenly I feel absolutely ancient.

cinnamonskin

@battlestarlet As the parent of teenagers, I can tell y'all: boys of that age are so often perceived as Bad People, when they are truly just so clueless. Emotionally, physically, bus-illy. You couldn't pay me money to be a teenager again.

wee_ramekin

@cinnamonskin You say "bogs of that age are often perceived as Bad People, when they are truly just so careless". This is an interesting point, and one that I wouldn't mind discussing academically.

I agree in some cases that we don't need to hold teens to the standards of adults, but I don't think that applies here. When I read the original post, I assumed that LW #1's boyfriend was in his twenties or thirties, and was like "HOLY DOUCHEKNUCKLES BATMAN! What a fucktard!". Yet now that we've floated the possibility that the behavior is coming from a teen, we're (maybe) willing to cut him some slack. Why?

I think we can agree that the behavior itself is objectively icky, no matter what the age, so why are we giving this dude a pass just because he's in high school? I mean, that's certainly old enough to know that discussing sex dreams with someone who isn't your girlfriend, or "accidentally" touching your Not Girlfriend's bra on a bus is wrong. I do think it makes him a Bad Person in the context of his relationship to LW #1.

Relatedly, I have a pet theory that the slack we cut young boys and men when it comes to consideration of others - arguably much more slack than we cut young girls and women - is what causes such careless phenomena as Leaving the Toilet Seat Up, Taking Up More Space Than Necessary on Public Transportation and (my personal favorite) Leaving Beard Hair In The Sink at the very least, and hazing, sexual violence and homophobia at the worst.

Thoughts?!

wee_ramekin

@wee_ramekin Heh..."bogs". Oops.

angelinha

@battlestarlet YES THE BAND BUS. I had my first kiss on the band bus. It was awesome.

Craftastrophies

@wee_ramekin I have a couple of (half formed) thoughts. I give young people slack in the same way I give someone slack who, say, I think might have a mental health issue. Ok, that sounds awful, but I mean it like this. Sometimes, young people (especially young men) literally do not have the cognitive abilities to do the things they know they should - the impulse control, etc. I remember being a teenager and basically just being confused about how anything worked, and reacting randomly. It sucked.

I also cut them slack sometimes because some things need to be experienced to be learnt properly, and some people are not old enough/experienced enough to know better. I will take a lot more crap from someone who has a good reason not to know better - the same way if someone is new at their job and there's something they don't know, it's nbd. But if they've been there for five years and still can't work the photocopier, WTH.

And, in combination with those two things, sometimes these people are trying really hard to be the person they want, but it's taking some time. This also goes for friends you've just had a Talk with, etc. They get some behaviour adjusting time, before you can know if they are trying and improving, or just pretending to try.

That said, a lot of this doesn't apply if I am interacting as a peer, or supervising them interacting with their peers (I am thinking of my partners teenage kids as an example, who are barely teens). I mean... as an adult, I am willing to go 'ok, you were kind of a dick to me, but: hormones'. Because I am an adult, and I (presumably) have fewer hormones/more experience/a bigger perspective. (Note. This is not true for all adults. MOTHER.) So I am willing to let some stuff slide, as LONG as I can work in an awareness that it wasn't ok. But if I'm interacting with a peer of whatever age, then it is not my job to find teachable moments. I am not interesting in teaching my partner how to be human. I am up for working on ourselves and our relationship together, but not for baby stepping them through.

Does that thesis make sense :P I am not sure.

@cinnamonskin Significant numnbers of my loved ones would have to be in danger of death and torture before I would be a teenager again.

redheaded&crazy

@Craftastrophies I feel as though this is why guys should have sisters. Parents can be so LENIENT sometimes, especially with the boy (or the youngest) (or the oldest) (just generally lenient).

Not a very academic observation. I would also like to point out that guys in their early 20s can be incredibly terrible whereas in earlier generations they may have been more um, civilized. Like in the 40s? Or maybe not, I don't know.

In any case, I think there's value in the saying "getting them young."

Craftastrophies

@redheadedandcrazy I feel like in the olden days rules were maybe clearer. And it's easier to follow clear rules without actually feelign them. I mean, like... you can hold a door for someone to be polite without actually giving a damn about that person's experience.

Amen, though, for peer socialisation. For a while I lived with two of my cousins, one of whom was the eldest and a boy, the other of whom was the youngest of four. It is NOT NICE being the only grownup in the house.

Ham Snadwich

@Craftastrophies I'm generally of the opinion that people always used to be worse, despite what older folks claim.

kayjay

I think the term "flirting" must have changed quite a bit during the years I was not actively doing it. Because that sounds an awful lot like "just about to be cheating" to me.

Bittersweet

@kayjay: If not "already cheating, just not with full p-in-v yet."

Hellcat

@Bittersweet Yeah, call me a crazy harpy but if my BF is cuddling with anyone that is not me, my cat, or his little nephew or nieces, it's already cheating (unless, of course, someone randomly runs up and cuddles him for unknown reasons, which...what?). Same for hand-holding, sex-related texts, lap-sitting (unless there's some group photo thing happening and whatever, but this one actually happened and I didn't care about it), and most certainly "accidental bra-touching"!

Judith Slutler

Lady 4, I was in just your position [except much more heartbroken, like, THERAPY TIME type heartbroken] almost 3 years ago! And then 2 months after the breakup I met an awesome guy, made out with him, had sexytimes etc. I was like "uh awesome guy you may want to be aware that I might not be ready for a relationship" and he was like "are you sure we're not already dating" which was intimidating. But then my therapist was like, girl, you need to go with the flow!

I did and awesome guy and I are still together and having awesome times. So don't just automatically discount your awesome guy as a rebound just because you're in the traditional rebound time period.

LauraJ

@Emmanuelle Cunt Agreed! In fact, my husband was supposed to be a rebound. We've been married 11 years.

Carrie Ann

@LauraJ and @Emmanuelle Cunt
I'm my husband's "rebound" from a four-year live-in relationship. They'd been long-distance for a year when they broke up one Saturday. The next Saturday was our first date. Sometimes, you're just ready to be done with a relationship. I think the concept of "rebounds" is actually overblown. I suspect that whatever dating situation you get into right after a breakup has just as much chance of success as it would at any other time in your life.

sevanetta

@Emmanuelle Cunt Please tell me where I sign up to have this kind of break-up/relationship experience. It's vastly different to what I've experienced.

jengetsaround

@Emmanuelle Cunt I totally needed this. I am currently sabotaging a perfect relationship of about a year because I fear I didn't have my "me" time after my last breakup (from a 6-year long-distance relationship). I still have "me" time now, I'm just being crazy. Man, I love you fuggers.

MrsLlama

@Carrie Ann agree/me too/yay! My husband had just gotten out of a weird long drawn-out 9 year relationship breakup thing (they were together since college, moved cross country together, etc barf). AND I was a one-night stand! 2 wr

Roaring Girl

Last letter writer, I am not a calculus whiz or anything, but I'd say that only crying for four days = your ex was a megadouche. You ARE over it already, you just have very understandable new relationship jitters. In my experience, new relationship jitters can make finally touching each others' fun bits to a whole new level, so enjoy!

LastMinuteLulu

@Roaring Girl Exactly! I am terrible at the maths, but only crying for 4 days over a 1.5 year relationship would equal move on and date the other guy already!

Artressa Vandelay

I like this Dude. Makes me wish I were a morning person.

Mad Dog

LW#1, I feel like the only kind of "accidental bra touching" that happens during a cuddle session on a bus is, "Oops, I touched your bra when I meant to touch your boob instead." DTMFA.

a horde of great crab things

@NatashaMcG I know! The thing that went through my head was 'Did he *absolutely and definitely and repeatedly promise* that the part of the bra her accidentally touched was not either of the parts of her bra that is adjacent to either of her bosoms?' Because if he didn't then she needs to G the FO because this man is at least 98% grody. (Actually, even if he did promise that, his Grody quotient is still at about 92%, so she needs to G the FO anyway).

NeenerNeener

@a horde of great crab things I am confused because when I read it I thought she was reading texts between them re: the "accident" and he was telling bra owner that the bra touching was an accident?

Gnatalby

@NeenerNeener That's what I got too, which also brings up the specter that your temper having cheater boyfriend is also a bus molester.

parallel-lines

LW#3, I feel you: I'm doing the full time work/part time school thing too and I'm lucky to see my bf for an hour or two a night. It's so rough, and I worry that he deserves more/better from me. I guess the solution would be to wake up earlier but I am not a morning person I don't know if any of that earlier time would be considered "quality", just grumbly.

Judith Slutler

@parallel-lines How about silent cameraderie and newspaper perusal? That's how my bf and I do mornings. Neither of us are morning people...

parallel-lines

@Emmanuelle Cunt hahaha--that might work. I always thought he was a morning person, and then I recently had to start getting up for work early twice a week and I discovered how cranky he is in the morning--lots of sighs and grunting. Sexy times were not had.

Ophelia

@parallel-lines I have walked this road, and one really nice thing we do periodically was set up coffee before bed, and have a cup in bed in the morning. Whoever has to wake up first, for whatever godforsaken reason, is in charge of bringing said coffee to bed for the other person.

Lisa Frank

This is a great A Dude! Also, the picture looks like a kindly but badass grandfather which makes it even more awesome.

redheaded&crazy

Being on different sleep schedules is the worst. And it seems like it's always the early riser that gets shafted! Just cuz, you know, lots of stuff is usually going on at night, and on weekends people tend to stay up later anyway, and so if you're a night owl it just kinda works out in your favour - plus you don't have to wake anybody up.

I told my ex that it was really important for us to do "daytime" dates and he basically would act really resigned towards it but still saying yes, and I guess my role in the whole thing was to call to wake him up at a reasonable hour, but then the day he'd be like "ok I'm not gonna be ready until like 5" and then at 5 "ok I'm running late, will be ready by 7"

one of many deal breakers for me, but anyways, I talked to my therapist about this and she basically said that sleep schedules are really hard to change and will make people resentful and grumpy. BUT she also said that if you can come to a compromise where you make an occasional request, e.g. the once a month the LW is talking about, that is pretty reasonable.

Aside from the whole sex as a present question (which I am in favour of personally...) I would definitely try the morning sex route, if possible. (and btw I don't know if this would actually be possible for me if I had to be at work at 8:30 because I like to hit snooze for eternity on work days, so anyways)

insouciantlover

@redheadedandcrazy heh, shafted.

redheaded&crazy

@insouciantlover not EVEN in the good way! :'(

cosmia

@redheadedandcrazy ughhh I hated how my ex got mad about "daytime" dates too, like the fact that I want to do things that end at a reasonable hour so I can go home because sometimes when I have to get up super early and go to a place two hours from your house, I do not want to sleep over.

rocknrollunicorn

@redheadedandcrazy I dunno, not being a morning person really starts to suck as you get older. Everyone expects me to "grow up." I am not wired in an early to bed/early to rise way. It's kind of terrible; I almost wish I was. Also, it has totally fucked with a lot of my relationships in that as soon as I tell a dude I'm a night owl, he tends to interpret it as "oh great, this is a broad I can text at 11 pm, meet at the bar, eat late night Mexican with, and never actually take on a motherfucking date."

That said, if a lovely man frequently woke me for sex, I swear I would try my damndest to be a morning person. I really would.

oeditrix

@redheadedandcrazy If my bf tried to wake me up for sex several hours before my alarm went off, I would be so grumpy. I'm not a morning sex person in the best of circumstances - lunch hour, while the chicken is roasting, and after a movie, those are my times. That said, I try really hard most days to wake up when my bf does, cuz I know I feel bitchy inside when someone else gets to sleep in. Moral of the story: I am grumpy.

applestoapples

Is there an actual problem that needs to be addressed in the last letter, or does someone just need a Moonstruck-style "snap out of it" in order to continue on with their ostensibly perfect courtship?

I mean, if you wanna trade, my boyfriend's idea of romance is letting me take two extra hits from his dutch.

raised amongst catalogs

@applestoapples "Old man, you give those dogs another piece of my food and I'm going to kick you 'til you're dead!"

melis

You're a wolf. You're a wolf and you chewed off your own hand.

raised amongst catalogs

@melis "You'll eat this one bloody to feed your blood."

raised amongst catalogs

@applestoapples Let's Moonstruck the hell out of all of these questions! LW1's boyfriend chases women because he fears death!

applestoapples

@vanillawaif "I want you to know that no matter what you do you're gonna die just like everyone else."

melis

@vanillawaif Then there's copper, which is the only pipe I use. It costs money. It costs money because it saves money.

wee_ramekin

@melis I think "don't shit where you eat" could cover...oh...about 75% of the answers to the various 'Ask A' questions.

applestoapples

For LW3# "The moon brings the woman to the man."
They should alternate--she gets him for two early mornings, he gets her for two late nights, then on weekends they fuck like rabbits who don't have strict schedules or school obligations.

melis

@applestoapples A bride without a head!

A wolf without a foot!

raised amongst catalogs

@melis @applestoapples "Birds fly to the stars, I guess."

melis

@vanillawaif I put a curse on that plane. My sister is on that plane. I put a curse on that plane that it's gonna explode, burn on fire and fall into the sea. Fifty years ago, she stole a man from me. S'aprese il mio uomo! Today she tells me that she never loved him, that she took him to be strong on me. Now she's going back to Sicily. Ritorna in Sicilia! I cursed her that the green Atlantic water should swallow her up!

Bittersweet

@melis: We are here to ruin ourselves and break our hearts and love the wrong people and die.

Bittersweet

@melis: I don't believe in curses.

(Every line in this movie is f*cking perfect.)

melis

I ain't no freakin' monument to justice! I lost my hand! I lost my bride! Johnny has his hand! Johnny has his bride! You want me to take my heartache, put it away and forget?

raised amongst catalogs

@melis "Chrissy, over on the wall. Bring me the big knife!"

Lucienne

@Bittersweet The storybooks are bullshit. Now I want you to come upstairs with me and get in my bed!

raised amongst catalogs

@Lucienne As much as I adore the politely restrained courting of Jane Austen novels, that line weakens my knees!

melis

This is the most tormented man I have ever known. I'm in love with this man, but he doesn't know that, 'cause I never told him, 'cause he could never love anybody since he lost his hand and his girl.

raised amongst catalogs

@melis Now he's going to play that damn Vicki Carr record, and when he comes to bed he won't touch me.

applestoapples

Forgive me Father, for I have sinned. It's been two months since my last confession. Twice I took the name of the Lord in vain, once I slept with the brother of my fiance, and once I bounced a check at the liquor store, but that was an accident.

Lucienne

@applestoapples Then it's not a sin. But what was the second thing you said, Loretta?

Atheist Watermelon

@applestoapples OH MY GOD I love this movie SO MUCH

meganmaria

I get to work by 8 or 8:30 (ouch!), and his office gets going around 10,
I would just like to state that I'm extremely jealous of both of your schedules.

cuminafterall

@meganmaria Um, YES, I go to work at 7:30 and I'm a "late arriver."

OhShesArtsy

@meganmaria

I'm with you! I go to work at 5 am, 8 sounds like a dream!

meganmaria

@OhShesArtsy Shit, you win (or is it lose?). I start at 6 am. I do 5 occaaaaaasionally, when I have things going on and don't want to use vacation time.

Cherryblossomgirl

LW1
Is your man a scrub? YES.

Ok, so I've cheated on a boyfriend. There was a time when, though attracted to my best friend, I would "never cheat on my boyfriend." Well...that resolve wore down after a while. And I'm not even a scrub.

insouciantlover

oh, overthinky lady #4, just stop it! He's totally into you, you ARE already dating, duh, and it's okay to be working through issues from the last relationship when in a new one.

I got into my current relationship when I was still processing some major emotional warfare from the previous one. He was super understanding of my processing and we are still super happy together.

Honestly, the fact that you might NOT date this wonderful guy who you've known for years and years who is falling in love with you RIGHT NOW is the most annoying part of your whole letter. Walk multiple dogs. Play Scrabble. Eat gelato with tiny spoons. It's all good, yo.

MoonBat

@insouciantlover : "It's all good, yo" = GENIUS. This one sentence should have been A Dude's entire answer to LW#4.

insouciantlover

@MoonBat A well placed "yo" has a certain comforting conviction to it, doesn't it? It's like "wow, she ended her sentence with a 'yo,' you can tell she really means it."

MoonBat

@insouciantlover : Exactly!!!

Kinloch

LW#3 - My sympathies for being on opposite sleep schedules! I feel your pain. My BF is in the trades, so he's up at 4:30 a.m. and I'm a 9-5er in an office, then I'm at the barn from 5-8. Our relationship quality time sometimes boils down to sharing the couch to watch "Big Bang Theory" before bed. Forget watching movies. Sometimes an hour long drama is a little too slow, and I'm snoring on the couch before the end. That's just life during the week, so we've learned to squeeze quality time into weekends. I couldn't eat breakfast at 4 am, and he can't meet me for lunch at 12 pm but Saturday & Sunday mornings? Totally doable. Is your EST-PST relationship just Mon-Fri or is it 7 days a week?

Appropriate gift to show you care (that's not sex): Since this class is coming to an end, I would celebrate it with a night at his favorite restaurant, or get him a watch (I know, corny, but it's a nice sentiment to appreciate the time he spends thinking of you & with you).

It's the little things.

Cawendaw

Wow, I think LW 3 may be the first question I've read which started with "My SO is perfect and wonderful, BUT..." and then did *not* contradict itself by the end of the question ("..but he never makes eye contact or speaks to me." "...but she screams obscenities at children" "...but he is actually three raccoons standing on each others' shoulders" etc.)

madge

@Cawendaw now i kind of want to date three raccoons standing on each others' shoulders...

lalaland

@Cawendaw It's like the scene when Sleeping Beauty starts dancing and the woodland creatures form themselves into the semblance of a man so she'll have a dance partner.

Which is, in other words, PERFECT.

Alli525

@madge It would absolutely be an improvement on a couple guys I've dated.

Bertie

@Cawendaw Oh god. The imagery of those raccoons is killing me.

oeditrix

@Cawendaw Are the raccoons wearing a trench coat and fedora to cover up the fact that they are three raccoons? And are they doing this so they can get into a top-secret FBI compound to rescue the woman they love? Because if so, they might not be so bad.

wee_ramekin

@Cawendaw Hahahaaaaa! Also, what would the advice even be for someone whose boyfriend was three raccoons standing on each others' shoulders?

Schroeder

I don't understand the last line in response to LW1. What's the extra layer of clothing for?

wee_ramekin

@Schroeder I think it's so that he doesn't accidentally touch her bra when she's breaking up with him.

redheaded&crazy

@Schroeder I think it's to provide extra padding against possible violence? I could be wrong, but if that were the case, probably an acceptable time to break up over the phone.

dotcommie

@Schroeder my theory was that maybe they live together and she might not want to go home after to get another change of clothing? i'm hoping it's not suggesting padding-against-violence, because that doesn't sound terribly effective.

tortietabbie

@redheadedandcrazy That's what I thought, too. Made me really uncomfortable and sad. :(

Esther

LW #3: This was me exactly this summer. Everything was great and we were loving living together except that we barely saw each other. We also had to sacrifice some late nights for tired mornings to be together, and would leave each other little meals we couldn't share. As much as it sucked and we complained and were sad, how much it sucked and we complained and were sad only proved how well things were going. I think a relationship is in a pretty great spot when your only complaint is that you can't see them enough and try everything to get around that and make each other feel secure. If crawling into bed with him at the end of the day is the only time you get to see him, is it worth it? For me, and it seems for you, yes. Hopefully things will get easier soon enough.

As for the morning thing, I'm like your boyfriend. Honestly, getting up earlier than I already have to is just NOT an option, I will be spacey and grumpy and awful and basically I'm a morning monster. We have a terrible joke that I don't love him in the mornings. It makes me sound horrible, and it is, that it's a seemingly simple sacrifice I refuse to make, but if your boyfriend is anything like me he's only trying to spare you some shitty company.

rocknrollunicorn

@Esther I have never lived with a man, but I live with my sister, and throughout our many years together, she has been tasked with making sure I awake. Now, I'm fine once I leave the bed. But there is this area between sleep and wake for me in which I am a rabid she-beast from hell. She has gone through periods of refusing to wake me up. And I never remember being a she-beast. It's awful.

Tulletilsynet

TL; DR.

@Tulletilsynet Then I suppose you are in the wrong place.

misspufflehuff

LW#1: Please get the f out. This is more than just flirting, this is disrespectful. And why are you afraid of his temper?! Another red flag.

LW#2: Don't be harsh on yourself with the reductive term "daddy issues," but do listen to your instincts on this one. It's a shame. There will be other park rangers. Perhaps even Mounties - are they allowed to cross the border? Or, perhaps check in with your local fire department?

LW#3: I like the sexy mornings advice! Or - a trip somewhere? A weekend away if you can, or just a fun day trip, something cheap and cheerful? Experiences like that are really nice gifts in a relationship, don't you find?

LW#4: Three things.

1) Chill.
2) When sufficiently chilled, wait until you're ready.
3) When you're ready, lead him to your bed.

You will know at which point each of these steps may commence. Don't rush it, and don't keep overthinking. + jealous! He sounds great.

oeditrix

@misspufflehuff I think she should date LW#2 and just get over the part about her dad. It's not creepy to date someone whose qualities remind you of a person you love. When she gets to know him better she'll see all the parts of his personality that are way, way different, and that aspect of her attraction will recede.

mczz

Okay I like this dude a good amount.

LW1: DTMFA, is all there is to it.

LW4: Awww, are you me two years ago? I broke up with this total jerk after 1.7 years, and a month later was dating another guy. It wasn't my intention in any way, I was so excited to be free and single and enjoy my life, and then I met a guy who just blew my mind. I was scared, and worried that I wasn't ready because of my problems with the guy before him. And maybe I wasn't. Anyway, we're married now.

I think you just need to honestly assess any past relationship baggage you have, and deal with it in and of itself, and treat the new guy as an entirely separate entity. Be careful, and make sure you catch yourself if you're reacting to situations with New Guy as if he were Old Guy. And enjoy it, because it sounds nice.

dinos

Ouroboros <3

bitzy

@dinos All I know is that I want "a cycle of sexual breakfast encounters."

KatieWK

Ahh, LW4! Do not let anyone make you feel bad for getting lucky. Sometimes coming straight off a dysfunctional and/or mediocre relationship makes you all the more likely to realize what you lucked into with guy #2, and less willing to let a good opportunity to go waste. You seem appropriately critical of your own motives (just don’t overthink it TOO much…I speak from experience).

Worst case scenario: it flames out and you had a fun rebound. Best case scenario: this guy continues to be awesome, you stay together forever, and years down the line a passive-aggressive friend or family members tells you they think you’re incapable of being alone. (Anyone else gotten this one? I’m currently seeking responses more effect than, “Uh, how can I be both the breadwinner for a man who’s in school and dependent on a man for survival?” but short of, “Oh yes, you’re right, please notarize my divorce papers so we can prove my capacity for self-inflicted loneliness.”)

Das Rad

Judging by the picture of this Dude, I kept expecting advice like "you gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em" or "don't fall in love with a dreamer".

Alice

@Das Rad I actually think "know when to walk away, know when to run" would have been excellent advice for LW1!

redheaded&crazy

btw does anybody else get excited seeing time cues like LW3: classes will be over in August, because it means that their ask a dude letter might still be in the queue?!

ormaisonogrande

@redheadedandcrazy yes

@redheadedandcrazy Yes, mine was posted 5 months after my actual send-in date and I had almost given up, thinking that my question was too hard/obvious/dumb. So there is hope for yours!

ormaisonogrande

People with better reading comprehension skills than me, what does this mean in L2 "The age difference isn't such a big deal, it's his actual number."?

I can't figure it out and it is driving me insane.

wee_ramekin

@ormaisonogrande I think it means that she's fine with someone who is a certain number of years older than she is, but the fact that this dude is 36 and her dad is 42 means that "the actual number" is too close to her dad's numerical age for comfort.

ormaisonogrande

@wee_ramekin Thanks, that kind of makes sense - definitely more sense than my telephone number/sleep number hypotheses. It kind of sucks for her that her dad was really young when she was born -- it makes it way easier for older guys to be close to her dad's age.

NeenerNeener

@ormaisonogrande: Because half of 24 (her age) is 12 (age diff to ranger), half of which is 6 (age diff to her father), half of which is 3 (the number of people that will die if she pursues this relationship). I thought it was pretty clear.

Bebe

@NeenerNeener In between that and the formula for dating readiness in the last letter, there is entirely too much algebra in this post....

D.@twitter

@ormaisonogrande What's YOUR number?

oeditrix

@ormaisonogrande The part that bothers me about that letter is not that he reminds her of her dad, but that it bothers her that he reminds her of her dad. To some extent we all end up dating our dads (or moms) as blech-y as that sounds, or at least the version of our dads that is different enough but has some similar quality that makes you feel happy. But if that creeps her out, maybe there's a reason?

ormaisonogrande

@oeditrix Yeah, I agree with that. When my boyfriend sneezes he sounds like my dad, and he has a few other mannerisms that remind me of him. I think part of the LW's problem might be that she doesn't know enough about her dad yet to distinguish things in other men that are *different* from him, making the similar things not so disturbing.

thebestjasmine

@ormaisonogrande Or maybe she does know him well enough and her dad is just kind of a jerk. I know that if I dated someone who reminded me in significant ways of my dad it would be a big red flag.

Craftastrophies

@oeditrix Yeah, I realised about six months after starting to date my current squeeze that he is a lot like my dad. They are physically nothing alike, but a lot of the things that I like about my sweetie are things he has in common with my dad - and sometimes the way we interact is similar. Not in creepy ways, just in that, these are things I value because my dad taught me to value them. Like, curiosity about the world, liking science, being a massive nerd, etc. My dad died a couple years ago under fairly traumatic circumstances, so when I realised this i had a bit of a freakout that I had bigger 'daddy issues' than I thought.

Then I figured, it took me six months to realise, and while some of those reasons are the initial reasons I was attracted to my partner, they are not by far the only ones. So... nbd basically.

I would say, if you are intellectually concerned that you might have more issues than you know about, maybe take it slow and see. If you emotionally feel a bit weird about it, then no. Do not date.

ml23

#1- (Occasional) confrontation is a building block! Albeit not a fun one.. but if he's worth while, in the end you both will be closer. You absolutely can't shy away from talking to him or he will walk all over you/not respect you. Guys will often give you as much respect back as you give yourself. Seems like this girl is your boyfriend's 'back up'.. He likes you, but if things don't work out he's got her waiting. This is beyond flirting & shows how needy he is for attention. Tell him how you feel (you love him and their 'friendship' creeps you out /makes you feel less close to him?) and hopefully he will get it. If he doesn't- then what a jerk! and you should dump him.

Esther

LW #1: I have both been and dated manifestations of your boyfriend. My current partner is also a huge flirt, but it's totally indiscriminate to men, women and objects. He's just so full of sweetness and love that he wants everyone to know it and feel it. One time early in our relationship, he was being inappropriately touchy and flirty with a female friend right in front of me at a bar, enough that a friend of mine pulled me aside and was like "wtf?" I told him afterwards that it really offended me, not because I thought he was into her but because it's disrespectful to me. Because he's always acted like that he hadn't even thought of it that way, profusely apologized and told me it wouldn't happen again. And it never did!

Moral of the story: it's one thing to be an extrovert and to be a bit of a compulsive flirt. I think that's fine and sometimes part of someone's personality you just have to accept. HOWEVER, there is a line to be determined by the couple of what is inappropriate and disrespectful, and it is both perfectly reasonable to ask someone to behave accordingly and super easy to comply. Seriously, if your partner cannot handle NOT sexting and groping other girls, then he simply doesn't care. As someone who's been that person in the past, I can tell you that I was a) trying to see how far I could push the rules because I b) ultimately didn't care how it would make my partner feel.

A Dude is right. Dump him.

rayray

I am sad that I read this post too late to contribute to the comments, but would like everyone to know I read them all and made prolific use of the thumbs up button. Now I am going to bed to cry about how I am not LW#4.

throwaway style

I thoroughly enjoyed this Dude's rebound math formula.

verenaskye

Wow. Is it weird that I can recognize my sis's writing even as an anonymous poster on thehairpin? LW1, AKA sister, I am close to driving to your boyfriend's and punching him in the face.

cinnamonskin

@verenaskye and that is why sisters rule.

redheaded&crazy

@cinnamonskin also a reminder not to overshare on the internet. heh.

...

oeditrix

@verenaskye The only thing that keeps me from writing to advice columnists constantly is the fear that someone out there will recognize me. Probably the person I'm writing about.

wee_ramekin

I'm just gonna put it out there: I think this A Dude is Mr. SinGin.

omgkitties

@wee_ramekin Seconded!

automaticdoor

@wee_ramekin Also, he is nowhere in the comments that I can see. HMMMMMM.

priscillamalarky

LW#1 sounds really, really young. Maybe end of high school or early college? Based on that alone, I say, Honey, walk away. At your age you should only be in relationships that make you sublimely happy. You don't have a legally binding marriage, or kids, or anything else between you that obligates you to stay, so if it's not cutting it for you (which it really, really sounds like it isn't) move on.

That said, even if you're not as young as you sound, this sound like a relationship I was in a few years ago. The dude had a funny, VERY friendly female friend who was all over him all the time (and I didn't even have to snoop to find out about it: she posted dozens of pictures weekly on facebook--I'm still convinced they were intended for my view specifically--of the two of them doing touchyfeely and borderline coupley things together. I asked him about it a few times--a few-minus-1 times too many, as the first time I told him how uncomfortable it made me and he dismissed my feelings about it should have been when I broke it off. Each time, though, he assured me nothing was going on between them and I just "couldn't understand how they related to one another." It got to the point where all we did was fight about this girl and finally we broke up and they started dating like 2 weeks later (or maybe even before we actually broke up? It's unclear). Ugh, it was awful: I had this terrible feeling in the pit of my stomach when I found out, like my gut was saying, "You knew this all along, bitch! You should have dumped his ass months earlier!"

Telling this girl about sex dreams: Yeah, as others have said, that's not flirtation, that's line-crossing. He wants her bod; or at the very least he's doing next to nothing to discourage her apparently rabid crush on him. Also not cool.

The thing about his "temper": it sounds like he only flares up when you ask him about his behavior, which is perhaps not a "temper" so much as his getting super, aggressively defensive, which people only do when they know they're wrong and someone calls them on it. If he reacts that way when you raise this issue, his conscience isn't clean: he knows he's being shady, and if he knows it, it's time for you to catch on too.

I know you love him and it'll hurt but again, you're young. Move on, watch some funny flicks, get a new hairstyle, read Barbara Demick's "Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea" because it's awesome and it'll put things into perspective--like, you know, at least you get to EAT EVERY DAY--and know that this may be your first love but it won't be your last, and odds are good the next guy will treat you a lot better.

HappyBeet

@priscillamalarky Can I grab some advice from you? I was in a similar situation to yours - gut saying nah, trying to rationalize his behavior and their friendship, attempting to make peace with something I just fundamentally wasn't cool with... Well we broke up quite a while ago, and even though it wasn't because of his lame and exclusive friendship with lame-face girl, I am still angry at her (who I only met once despite being with him for a year). And am periodically angry at him. Oh, and also myself. Just, you know: everyone. Blah blah feel your feelings blah blah but really how long did it take you to stop being angry? Because he has since apologized, and given I don't know her it may or may not be inappropriate for me to send an aggressive f'book message her way.... So basically: I know it's mine to deal with now, but sometimes it just sticks there, this ugly feeling; shred of meat behind my molar styles. Do you hate all future dudes' female friends now? Or is every relationship so different that to try and generalize feelings forward is futile? Are these alliterative hypothetical questions too Carrie Bradshaw-esque? And, you know: How did you move on (assuming from the calm tone of your typing that you did).

hideously

LW3 more or less describes the origin story of my situation, and I've been with my Dude B for like a bunch of time and we've been living together this year, so, y'know, it can be totally great and fulfilling and long-term. Just be honest and it sounds like you have been!

hideously

@hideously Oops, I mean LW4 obviously.

MrsLlama

I am REALLY enjoying the picture of this Dude. A LOT.

HappyBeet

@priscillamalarky Can I grab some advice from you? I was in a similar situation to yours - gut saying nah, trying to rationalize his behavior and their friendship, attempting to make peace with something I just fundamentally wasn't cool with... Well we broke up quite a while ago, and even though it wasn't because of his lame and exclusive friendship with lame-face girl, I am still angry at her (who I only met once despite being with him for a year). And him. Oh, and also myself. Just, you know: everyone. Blah blah feel your feelings blah blah but really how long did it take you to stop being angry? Because he has since apologized, and given I don't know her it may or may not be inappropriate for me to send an aggressive f'book message her way.... I know it's mine to deal with now, but sometimes it just sticks there, this ugly feeling; shred of meat behind my molar styles. Do you hate all future dudes' female friends now? Or is every relationship so different that to try and generalize feelings forward is futile? Are these alliterative hypothetical questions too Carrie Bradshaw-esque?

redheaded&crazy

@Holiday not priscillamalarky but can I just say that I don't think you should send an aggressive fb message. maybe write out your angry thoughts, but sending it puts you at the "mercy" of her response in a way, plus it doesn't make you look good really. best revenge is being happy, etc

and as someone who has trust issues, despite never having been cheated on to my knowledge, I think its partly futile to predict how future relationships go, and partly realistic to expect that you may have trouble with trusting female friends in the future.. thats my two cents anyway :\

Mimi Killjoy

letter #1- You are making excuses for your boyfriend. Why are women always trying to put all the blame on 'the other woman'? I guess it's so you can stay in a relationship with a badly behaved boyfriend. Otherwise, you'd have to admit what he is doing and take action or decide to live with someone who is cheating on you, in spirit if not in actual action (yet). That kind of denial allows women to live with their cheating partners. Your boyfriend is trying to have his cake and eat it, too- and have the other woman take all the responsibility. Nice trick, huh? He's manipulative. He's playing both of you. He's pulling the, 'I love my girlfriend...but I wish I could be with you' trick. He knows she likes and wants him. He thinks his protestations of love for you are like a get out of jail free card absolving him of responsibility? You seem to think so, too. You guys really belong together. Getting her to be the aggressor, giving her enough signals to keep coming. If he sent clear 'I'm not interested' signals, this scenario wouldn't exist. He's sending this other woman green lights. Mixed signals, but if he knows she likes him, it's enough to keep her going. If he hasn't cheated yet, give him time. He wouldn't be doing this for nothing. And trust, if it doesn't happen with her, there will be another one in the future. The problem in your relationship isn't her, it's him. You're not in a relationship with her.

Mimi Killjoy

His behavior won't change. I love him but I just want him to change. Famous last words. Women, the men you love aren't going to change. It's easier to find a different guy than to get a guy to change. You can't change someone. You will just make yourself miserable. Unless you want the drama, or think you can change people (you can't), RUN!

279th District Court

I once told a guy I was dumping him because he reminded me too much of my father for me to keep dating him. In reality, he was super emotionally manipulative, but I was backed into an emotional corner such that...well, that's another story, never mind, anyway...

What really got me was who in my life was suddenly like "Oh, then never mind all the pressure I was putting you to continue dating this guy!" (like I said, emotionally manipulative, and not just to me), and then people like my mother who were all, "Um, isn't that good? You LOVED your dad? He was objectively an awesome person?" and me having to explain that he reminded me of my dad in the WRONG WAY. The "ew, ew, don't touch me!" way.

But what took the cake! A few days later, when we met again briefly and were saying goodbye, he says we need to keep in touch, because once I get over this, he wants to get back together. And I stopped dead and was just like, "What?"

This is when I realized he thought I only couldn't handle him being like my father because he had recently died - or perhaps I was seeing my father everywhere because he had recently died. Just, wtf, right?

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