Marriage, the Word "Queer," and "Is My Boyfriend Gay?"
I've been with my boyfriend (he’s 26, I’m 22) for four and a half years. He's my first ever boyfriend and for a long time I wanted him to be my last. Put simply, the guy's amazing. Kind, caring, considerate, selfless, generous beyond words. (I get "period presents" — flowers, books, magazines, my favourite snacks — EVERY month so to help me get through the menstruating process.) Except for the past four and a half years, I've been plagued with the worry that he is gay. Here is my evidence:
1. He has no interest in me sexually. Lots of kisses and cuddles, but when it comes to the bedroom, it's two minutes of foreplay, four minutes of thrusting, then he comes and it's over. This has been a HUGE issue in our relationship, one that I have expressed countless times and have even broken up with him over twice before. Each time it comes up, I say something along the lines of "Babe, my self-esteem is shot. I am starting to loathe my body because clearly it's not turning you on. I'm not asking that you jackhammer me for an hour. I'm asking that either before or after you come, if I could get a bit of finger action until I come, that would be great." Each time he nods and says “I promise things will change.” Except they don't. At all. In the four and a half years we've been together, I can count on one hand how many times he's made it about me and my satisfaction in the bedroom. Two nights ago I begged him to tell me why, why this is and all he could mumble was "I'm selfish." This does not make sense to me, since he is the least selfish person I know. In fact, his therapist (who he just started seeing because now he can't get an erection because I'm always telling him he's not satisfying me) actually told him he has a "rescuer" personality, which means he's constantly putting other people's needs and wants before his own, so why not in this case with me?
2. He lives and breathes for Madonna. I'm talking he has a collection of Madonna stuff worth tens of thousands of dollars.
3. Every single male friend he's ever had have ALL been gay.
4. He went through this period when he was 20 where he thought he was gay (he says this was based on the fact that since high school everyone told him he was gay), so one night he fooled around (everything but sex) with one of his gay mates and thats when, according to him, he realized he is definitely not gay.
5. All my friends (including my male gay friend) and family think he's gay.
6. His dad who has bullied him about being 'unmanly' and 'weak' his whole life is homophobic (although that didn't stop my boyfriend's younger brother from coming out to the family).
I broke up with him three nights ago. It was the worst break up, very ugly. Me smashing shit, screaming "I hate you, I hate you." Him standing there looking at his feet. I went to my dad's place. I've been there ever since. We haven't spoken. The thing is I still really love him. I need to know whether I should ONCE AGAIN give it another go, or am I wasting my time because he's quite possibly gay or asexual. Should we just have an open relationship and I get the sex elsewhere? My brother tells me I'm being a moron because sex is only a small part of the relationship and I'll never find someone who is otherwise as perfect for me as he is. Oh I should probably tell you that I've asked/confronted him about being gay probably three times in our relationship. Each time he swears, he PROMISES that he is not and tells me how hurt and shit that makes him feel to know that his own girlfriend also doubts his sexuality. Please help me!
A lot of the questions I get for this column can be boiled down to, “Am I gay?” There are often clues hidden in the e-mail — like the fact that you're writing to me in the first place — but ultimately I can't give any better advice than “I dunno, fuck some girls and see what it does for you.” More recently, I've gotten several variations on “Is my boyfriend / sister / boss gay?” And my answer to those — since I don't get to hear the perspective of the person in question — is usually “Jesus Christ, how should I know?” For you, however, a different approach is in order. Is your boyfriend gay? I don't know, but get the fuck out of there.
I understand that it can be difficult to come to this conclusion about someone you still love, but your boyfriend — your ex-boyfriend, actually, since you broke up and I fervently hope you stay that way — is an asshole. He is a selfish douchebadger. He is a Giant Costco Variety Pack of juiceboxes. He is the goddamn worst.
So what is his fucking deal? I don't know, I mean, there are a few options, but I don't care about any of them because he's so heinous. OK, fine: Maybe he's secretly gay, and can't deal with lady-bits, so he gets the sex over with as fast as he can. This is no excuse. If he's not ready to come out, he at least needs to stop torturing innocent women. Maybe he's straight, but just not attracted to you for some reason. This is no excuse. Don't date people you don't want to fuck, it only leads to misery. Maybe he's actually asexual. This is the closest to being an excuse, except that it's extremely clear that YOU have a libido even if he doesn't, and if he has zero interest in getting you off, he should have mentioned that before you hit the six-month mark, let alone four years. Maybe he's super insecure about being unable to get you off and figures if he doesn't try, well, at least he won't really have failed. This is also no excuse, since he is older than 16, and therefore capable of taking constructive criticism like a grown-up. Basically, THERE IS NO EXCUSE for this dude's behavior.
I don't care that he likes Madonna, has tons of gay friends, or doesn't get along with his father. All of those are totally irrelevant to his insane sexual selfishness. (If he's such a rescuer, why doesn't he feel the need to rescue you from the pain and heartbreak of blue balls? No. He's selfish, and also terrible.) You've spent FOUR AND A HALF YEARS trying to convince him to satisfy you sexually, and he's spent those same four and a half years going “maybe next time”? And then he gets pissy that you “doubt his sexuality”? UGH, I hate him.
You didn't leave him because he might be gay. You left him because he could not be bothered to put any effort into your satisfaction. This is a completely legit reason for a breakup, so trust yourself that you know what you need, and don't go back to him. (And don't listen to your brother! He is incapable of taking your sexual needs seriously, because you're his sister and eeewwwww. I know how he feels; I have three siblings, and none of them have ever had sex or ever will, because eeewwwww. But I at least recognize that this makes me unfit to give them relationship advice.)
Anyone who tries to convince you that you shouldn't want good sex, satisfying sex, sex that makes you feel desired, is someone who does not have your best interests at heart. Leaving an otherwise acceptable relationship because the sex is God-awful is not shallow or selfish, it is survival tactics. This guy was making you miserable. Your description of pleading with him to put even a tiny bit of effort into your pleasure seriously broke my heart. You were right all those times you broke up with him before, and you're right this time. Don't go back.
As you well know, same-sex marriage is starting to gain some real traction and my home state of New York just joined the fight for equality by legalizing it. The queermo in me is ecstatic! Finally, people are starting to see that our love is no less real or worthy of recognition as heterosexual love.
The bachelorette in me, though, is feeling more and more alienated by the day. Now I can't even check my Facebook feed without seeing some blurb about a gay or lesbian couple that just got hitched. I know I'm supposed to be happy and that should be the end of it, but the real hierarchy of relationships in the United States is clear to me: It's couples vs. singles, not gay vs. straight. It used to be that the privileged group was married heterosexuals, but now it just married couples, period. Being gay is no longer an excuse for not getting married. Sex and the City did an entire episode of how single life is not even remotely appreciated in this country, so I won't get into that, but at least for a while being gay made me immune to the constant barrage of, "When are you getting married??" from my friends, whether I'm dating someone or not. No longer. As soon as NY made it legal, the world of coupled privilege came flooding back into my life.
Basically, I'm wondering how to navigate the new and exciting world of married gay couples without killing myself or someone else in the process? It seems like everyone I know is either married, engaged, or just moved in with their significant other. I want to be happy for my friends in established relationships, gay or straight, but it's difficult when it's clear that these people consider me somehow incomplete because I'm single. Doesn't a girl have a right to date herself, anymore? The push towards marriage, babies, etc. in this country has always been infuriating (we can want something else and still be happy!), but now that it includes queers too, I'm fast approaching my wits' end. Please advise?
God, yeah, it's awesome to be a gay couple getting married. What with all this privilege I have, I never even think about the fact that my relationship won't be legally recognized or benefit from any of the protections straight marriages receive (turns out not all the homos live in New York!), because the point is that I have a partner, which means that I won, which means suck it, all you single bitches.
Hoo boy, are my cranky pants getting a workout today. OK, let's both take a time out for a minute, breathe deeply, and drink some tea. Consider what you're actually saying. Do you have the right to date yourself? Well, the federal government and 44 out of 50 states haven't declared that your singleness doesn't really count as singleness, because it's not the right kind of singleness, so yeah, as far as the law is concerned, it seems you have every right to do exactly what you want. Once again, words mean things. Be careful talking about your metaphorical rights to people whose actual legal rights are currently being denied, OK?
Look, I see what you mean. I do. And you absolutely have a valid point — our culture holds up “fall and love and get married” as the grand finish line of life, and if you haven't done that, some people assume that it's because you're failing at relationships, rather than succeeding at being single and awesome. Which is fucked up! You should be able to be single and awesome and have people cheer you on and possibly even throw you parties where you wear fancy clothes and eat cake, what the hell, why should couples get to have all the fun?
However. I become concerned — to say the least — when you proceed from “I should be able to live the way that I want” to “it's SO OBNOXIOUS that a small minority of queers are now allowed to live in a way that I don't want!” I know that it seems like your community is the whole world, and that the Gay Marriage Establishment is full-on running the show, but please remember that in most places in this country, that is not the case. A lot of partnered gay people are not feeling very privileged at all right now. Most of us (and, um, all of us who are writing this column) cannot legally marry our chosen partners. Some of us are still worried that we could lose our jobs if we talk about our partners at work. So I would say that it is, at best, a whole lot premature to decide that married gay couples have become The Man.
Single people should be treated with respect and dignity, not as incomplete or pitiable. That's true. Gay people who want to get married should be allowed to do so. That's also true. The thing is, there's no conflict here. Your queer friends, by gaining the right to deal with florists and venues and save-the-dates and seating charts and aaargh (GUYS planning a wedding is SUCH A PAIN), are not actually subtracting from the number of rights you have. It's not like there are only so many to go around. They're rights, not cookies. And do you really want your fellow homos to be denied the right to wed if it's something they care about deeply, just because it doesn't sound like that much fun to you? Of course you don't.
So you need to stop thinking “my friends are getting married and I am the last single dyke in all the world,” and start thinking “my friends are getting married! That's so cool! I hope they have an open bar.” You also need to stop assuming that your friends think you're a failure for being single. Someone who makes a life choice that differs from your own is not insulting you, or implying that your choices are terrible; they're just different from you. And isn't it awesome that you both have the right to be the lovely, different people you are?
Of course, if people really are asking you when you're getting married, they're intrusive jerks and you should blow them off. Just say, “As soon as Rihanna starts returning my calls,” and move on with your day.
I'm a queer identified woman and have been dating another queer identified woman for about a year. We have maintained a pretty fun and playful sex life, despite slight differences in sexual energy, exhausting jobs and odd schedules. Alas, here's the thing: She really is not into oral. Of course, I'm a big fan. I have been patient and we've explored other types of stimulation and activities, and have both been pretty satisfied. Recently, though, she's been more receptive to receiving and has really been enjoying that (and I, for the most part, have really enjoyed giving it). She feels guilty for not reciprocating and isn't sure what to do, what she is comfortable with. I'm having a hard time finding a balance between not pressuring her and self-advocating for what I want. I don't want to say "no head for you until I get some," but I also don't want to go without indefinitely, and of course I want to be a GGG partner.
I am not super into the model of give-some-to-get-some, when it comes to oral sex. Head should be given joyously or not at all. I'm not saying that eating pussy should necessarily be the most thrilling and satisfying activity of your life, but you should be getting off on the fact that you're getting her off, at least. If you're enjoying going down on your girlfriend, it seems weird to me to hold that hostage until you get something else you want. By the same token, giving head grudgingly because you're hoping to be repaid later is a quick way to kill your fun, playful sex life and replace it with boredom, resignation, and a whole lot of “I'm just really tired tonight.”
If your girlfriend is avoiding it because she's inexperienced and worried she won't get you off, you may just need to keep being patient and reassuring her. Let her know that you're not necessarily expecting an orgasm the first time she's down there — or even the fifth. These are exploratory missions so she can get her bearings. Once she feels a little more comfortable, you'll try raising the stakes. If, on the other hand, she's tried it in previous relationships and just hates it … well, I can't pretend to understand that, but you've got to respect it. Trying to argue someone into being more sexually compatible with you is just not going to work.
You might need to have a Big Lesbian Feelings Talk (BLFT) with your girlfriend and find out if being with her long-term means never having a tongue on your clit again. And if the answer is “yes,” then you have to decide whether that's something you can live with.
Hey Queer Chick! I have a question about nomenclature: So in your case, "queer" means gay, and I've heard that it can also include bi folks, but does it stop there or can it include other points on the gay-straight spectrum as well? I've heard that anyone who's "outside the accepted sexual norms" or something like that can be queer, but that seems really vague and unhelpful. I'm all for people being whatever they say they are, and I'd never argue with anyone who told me they were queer, I'm just confused about what exactly that word implies these days. For example, can a bi dude be queer or is it just gay and bi ladies who get that distinction? Can you be gay WITHOUT being queer? Thanks for your help!
“Queer” is basically the greatest word ever. It refers to pretty much anyone who is a sexual outsider, which is why I love it so much, because it describes pretty much all my favorite people. Plus, it's not quite as versatile as “fuck,” but it's bendy — it can be used as an adjective, a noun, or a verb.
It's a lot roomier than “gay” or “lesbian,” which is why I tend to use it when talking about myself (one of my favorite activities). “Lesbian” is a little more … specific than is actually appropriate for my sexual past. (I do use “gay” and “lesbian” more or less interchangeably with “queer” to describe my current relationship, which I don't ever plan on not being in.) “Bisexual with a strong preference for lady-sex” would be sort of accurate, except that I hate the word “bisexual.” It feels weird and restrictive and small, and doesn't fit into the way I see myself. It sounds like someone who likes dudes 50% of the time and ladies 50% of the time, and doesn't allow for fluidity or, for that matter, attraction to people who identify as something other than “dude” or “lady.” Queer is much more inclusive. It's also becoming more and more popular as a catch-all — not surprising, since the alternative (LGBTQQIA, unless they've added some recently) doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
Although I will always defer to any individual or couple's preferred terminology, I am comfortable using “queer” to denote pretty much any relationship or sex act other than cis-dude-on-cis-lady. (I know some straight trans people who don't feel that their relationships are in any way queer, and other straight trans people who do, so I'm going to go ahead and say that you should use it if you feel it applies to you, and if not, don't. Such are my nuanced linguistic views.) So, to answer your question: yes, bi dudes can be queer, and so can gay dudes and bi ladies and pansexual people and those with genderqueer partners. Basically, if someone tells you that she's queer, you should not assume that you know one single thing about the type of person she likes to fuck, except that if you asked you'd probably get an interesting answer. And what's not to love about a word like that?
Previously: Coming Out, BLFTs, and the Struggles of the Incredibly Hot.
Lindsay Miller knows everything. Do you have a question for A Queer Chick?
Photo by Anna Sedneva, via Shutterstock
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Wow, what a tactful and patient response to kind of an insufferable question (rant) from lw2. You're really turning into one of my faves, lindsay.
@roughe: I had the same reaction. God, LW#2, you are insufferable, tedious and entirely too invested in the SATC narrative.
But I am sure you are totally a Carrie, except on those days where you really feel like a Charlotte. I also bet you have your own Stanford, and that you use the word "heteronormative" and the phrase "third wave feminism" on a weekly basis. GAH.
@karion Agreed. I'm always baffled when I meet women around my age (30ish) who seem to live their lives as though they were Carrie Bradshaw. Stop it! Stop it right this instant! Do you really think she could afford that shit on a writer's salary. STAHP.
@insouciantlover I used to be looooove Sex and the City and totally related to it and thought it had Profound Things to Say About Life. But then I started to find it…not so profound? Ridiculous? Painful?
I was TWENTY when I made this discovery. TWENTY.
@roughe ikr? I totally read LW2's question in Carrie's stupid thought-monologue voice and ugh.
@roughe LW#2 makes a great point, and it's a shame that Queer Chick and so many of you decided to respond by ranting at her.
When the state recognizes particular romantic relationships as deserving of special benefits, it engages in discrimination, plain and simple. Extending these benefits to a handful of queer couples does nothing to change the inherently discriminatory nature of marriage.
What about people who want to be in a relationship but do not want the government to arbitrate their finances should they decide to break up? What about people in relationships that involve more than one person? What about people who simply don't believe that the state should be in the business of endorsing particular people's romantic feelings and living arrangement as worthy of special civil benefits?
LW#2 is right. Our culture has privileged hetero love for centuries. However, the solution is not to extend these special, discriminatory privileges to those queer couples that seek state endorsement in the form of marriage. The solution is to stop attaching special benefits to marriage, period.
@DarthChewie Amen! I couldn't have said it better myself. And, frankly, the queer community has many ways of recognizing relationships that don't involve marriage, which were once invented out of necessity, but have become a part of the community itself. Do I think same-sex couples deserve the same privileges granted to heterosexual couples? Absolutely, anything less would be discrimination. But do I think fighting for marriage the way we have been makes sense? Hell no. We're not going to magically gain rights through the backdoor by forcing people and places that aren't ready to accept our relationships on equal footing to theirs. It makes a heck of a lot more sense to me to focus on, say, job and housing discrimination– which is still very legal and affects ALL gays, single or coupled.
First Letter Writer, My boyfriend's favorite bands are Kylie Minogue and Girl Talk (who pulled him in for a kiss at a concert a few years ago). His closest male friends are gay. He loves to go to the theater.
He is awesome in bed and always makes sure that my needs are met (as I do for him). A man's tastes above the belt are irrelevant to those below the belt. Your ex-boyfriend has some stuff he needs to work out that have nothing to do with his enthusiasm for Madonna and everything to do with his selfish behavior.
Good answer, Queer Chick!
@cwmilton Your boyfriend got kissed by Girl Talk/Gregg Gillis? And now you get to kiss him? OMG OMG OMG and now I am making internet contact with you? 3 degrees of amazing
@whateverlolawants And now MY comment is right below YOURS? AHHH 4 degrees!
@cwmilton I ate chili with gregg and he's dudes with some mutual friends. what do I get now? fame? fortune? no; only the inherent smugness that comes with dancing on 'stage' when there were only like 150 people there, and that isn't worth shit.
Period presents? Really? It's not an illness.
Sorry ugh I'm mean.
@waitykaitie Unrelated, but your icon is one of my very favorite paintings
@waitykaitie Samesies. I would actually find that super obnoxious. I'm capable of buying my own gallon of ice cream thankyouverymuch.
@princessS Trying to be thoughtful truly is a minefield.
@waitykaitie Ick, I agree. I cringed when I read that. I'd take that as really condescending and maybe even kind of sexist, but in an especially gross way.
@waitykaitie I've been on a side email convo w/ two ladyfriends trying to figure out exactly why the idea of Period Presents ™ seems so repugnant/condescending, and my girl got it right I think (also I fell in love with Theoretical Guitar Solo Boy, obvs):
The thing about periods is that they are hard-core. What could be more heavy metal than blood coming out of your vagina? Appropriate period presents ™ would play to this natural fact, not work against it. ("Honey…I wrote you this crushing electric guitar solo.")
@apb I can't find a better way to say I LIKE THIS… so I will type it in all caps.
so fucking metal.
@waitykaitie Really? I would be very happy to recieve any period presents anyone is offering.
@boyofdestiny Giving "period presents" is not trying to be thoughtful. It is, as others have said, condescending, misogynist, and perpetrates the "bitches are crazy when they're bleeding!" stereotype.
@apb Aahhhh, that's exactly it. It's like the wild menstrual forces are supposed to be tamed and domesticated by overly cutesy and comforting "period presents". The only period present I want is crazy period sex and a gigantic medium rare hamburger! Also then we can watch Die Hard or some other loud action movie.
@cherrispryte Exactly. This is a normal and natural process. Pass me the goddamn Advil and let's get a move on.
@apb: Also, there is iron in the blood. METAL!
@Seriously? Seriously. I don't know, I like the idea of having someone acknowledge that I'm uncomfortable and doing something sweet. I'd only find it condescending if he was all "you're clearly irrational right now, here's some ice cream and we'll talk about this later."
@Emmanuelle Cunt clearly, we feel the same way about our periods. I celebrated my period this past weekend by gorging myself on caribou chili and having obnoxiously good sex.
@Seriously? Seriously.: So are anniversaries.
@Emmanuelle Cunt I really enjoy that my body craves bloody burgers when I'm bleeding- I feel downright feral.
@Hot mayonnaise Are you serious with that anniversaries thing? Anniversaries are things to celebrate, and bear absolutely no relationship to a menstrual period. Unless it was a "these crazy ladies make me give them presents for one thing, they must want presents for EVERYTHING" kind of comment.
@Susanna@twitter I agree. As I sit here menstruating and cramping, I would not turn away any gift that acknowledges my day kind of sucks and I need a pick-me-upper. My husband just brought me a candy bar (less for the period, more for the up all night with sick kids, then lecture by child's teacher for bringing her late to school and other general suckiness of my day), and I am a-okay with that. It helps that he also satisfies me in bed though.
@waitykaitie Mom got me all sorts of shit for my first period. I don't see why it can't continue. Also, when did gifts become condescending? Happy birthday, I got you this because you're a year closer to death.
Ehhhhh, bigger fish to fry than period gifts.
@heb and all the other pro-gift folks– I agree; since when are presents bad? I welcome and all reasons to receive candy, books, and more candy.
@heb Gifts became condescending when they are given in a manner that implies weakness, irrationality, etc. "Get through the menstruating process"?! Give me a fucking break. It's a period, they suck, but creating a whole ritual with a cutesy alliterative name is just further infantilizing something that has been used as an excuse to keep women subervient for centuries.
@cherrispryte, you don't think it depends at all on the context? (Not on how it's intended, though–"I'm just trying to be nice!" is bullshit, agreed.) I agree that yeah, someone giving a present out of the blue because "omg this must be so hard for you
" is condescending and awful. But if the woman gets bad cramps, is generally sad/uncomfortable, and (this is most important) appreciates the gesture, then it's a positive interaction. A gift in response to sadness (whether due to periods or not) is appropriate, a gift simply in response to the perceived issue of periods is not.
@SouthernSmirk That works by the way. Also, the dude is cleary gay.
@wallsdonotfall Context does matter. If someone you care about/are in a relationship with is sad or in pain, sure, do something nice for them. But "my girlfriend is unable to survive this immense monthly burden with my assistance in the form of flowers and magazines and chocolate" just rubs me the wrong way. Partially because how the fuck do flowers and magazines help with menstruation? I'm with team "get me a burger" up there, but that, I suppose, is a different issue.
@thebestjasmine: Aren't periods things to celebrate too? I mean, I do a little dance every time I start bleeding because I'm NOT PREGNANT, YAY!!! (streamers, balloons, high school marching bands)
@cherri: Not that it's needed, but it's nice to get acknowledgement that it's a different time of month. I'd rather have chocolate and nice words than "get over yourself already."
@cherrispryte My favorite period present is the fact that my boyfriend is aware that the whole "bitches be crazy when they PMSing! handle with care!" thing is total bullshit.
I don't get the "flowers and magazines and candy yay!" gifts, either. Really? If you want to help, buy me some extra strength motrin.
@SouthernSmirk Seconded. I have terrible periods (a million times worse post-pregnancy) and I would LOVE a period present* because I invariably feel shitty every 28 days.
But also agreed context matters.
*in the form of chocolate OR cheeseburger, please thanks!
@cherrispryte Yeah, my problem is that it happens "EVERY month" – not, "and would you believe it, a few weeks ago he brought me flowers because I was having some rough PMS, and I often find a pint of my favorite ice cream in the freezer around that time of the month". The fact that it's ritualized implies condescension to me – like, "you are flawed by design, woman, so I'll dutifully buy you flowers every 28 days in acknowledgement of that".
@MerelyGoodExpectations Mine too! I love a good Judith!
@JStallz I will take any presents I can get, for any reason, at any time, from anyone.
The only present I ever turned down was from my batshit horrible seahag of an ex-mother-in-law, who offered to get me a housekeeper for my birthday because I'm "not so good at keeping things tidy." Meanwhile, her fatass son wasn't working at anything but shoving fast food down his maw and not picking up after himself while I worked three jobs.
Wait, what were we talking about? Presents? Yes, please. Where do I sign up?
@wallsdonotfall Yeah, I'm thinking that since the letter-writer didn't mention having horrible periods or PMDD or endometriosis or something else that would indicate that her periods are way worse than normal and thus render thoughtful gestures tied to a predictable day or two of overwhelming suckitude the thing to do, it's entirely plausible the dude's condescending.
@cherrispryte In my perfect world, period gifts would consist of vicodin and weed and back massages. Flowers not so much.
@cosmia The best period presents are painkillers and patience (I like a little deliberately melodramatic moaning. Cheers me right up). But I'm a pragmatist, so I was concerned as much with the cost as the condescension. Like every month? Save that money for a year and go away for a weekend! Buy a new TV, bookshelves, skis, whatever!
@insouciantlover The frankincense, gold and myrrh of modern times, if you will.
@waitykaitie I'm down with "I'm/We're Not Pregnant!" celebratory dinners & drinks & painkillers? Every month? Yeah I'd be down with that.
@waitykaitie I'll admit this would be a minefield of a situation, but the more I think about it, I think I hate the idea of period presents because it sounds like he marks it on his calendar – "this will be the first day of her period, so I know she will be grumpy, so I'll buy her something" instead of actually waiting to see if she IS grumpy. It's like he doesn't give her the benefit of the doubt and just always assumes she'll be incapacitated by it. And maybe that's true every single month. Maybe her cramps are so bad she can't even get out of bed. I'm not judging her for that. I'm judging him for operating under the assumption that she's not strong enough to deal with something like that without some coddling, without even giving her the chance to do so.
@KeLynn Yes yes yes exactly this.
I am ALWAYS crazy around that time though, so it would be a pretty sure bet that it would be appreciated.
@Susanna@twitter I guess the thing is – this girl also clearly appreciated it and viewed it as thoughtful. Sooo different strokes for different folks I suppose.
ETA: Obviously still stay broken up with this guy! The period presents are way less concerning to me than the making her feel insecure, not being sexually satisfied, and promising to change and then not doing so.
@heb I did not even know period gifts were a thing. The only thing I ever got for my period were horrible, horrible periods that sent me home monthly until I figured out how to pain medication.
@cherrispryte I'm new here (longtime listener, first time caller) and I don't want to start out shit-stirring, but I'm failing to see how this can be categorized as "misogynistic." At best, it's an attempt at kindness to which LW#1 gave an unfortunate, overly precious name. Hey, it's nice to be nice! And couldn't we all use a little more nice? At worst, it's misguided and (likely unwittingly) condescending.
Like Queer Lady said, words have meaning and "misogynistic" is a powerful one. I guess I just feel that using that terms in reference to what, in the grand scheme of wrong and terrible things, seems to be a minor infraction (if it's an infraction at all), has the dangerous potential of stripping the word of its meaning when it really counts.
Wow. I'm not really into flowers. But if a guy gave me chocolate when he knew I had my period, I'd love him FOREVER. I honestly don't get how that's condescending. Who says that I "can't get through it without him"? Don't people make chicken soup for and pamper their sick loved ones even if it doesn't really help? If someone has to go through pain every month, isn't it nice to be like, "I know. Sorry. Here's a 3 Musketeers. I love you."?
@Acrylic Disaster
But periods aren't a sickness. They aren't a cold that requires chicken soup. They are a healthy part of life. Why are we acting otherwise?
@waitykaitie Because for some ladies, a period – while natural and healthy – is also super painful and unpleasant. I have a friend who took the first day of her period off of work, every month, because she couldn't get out of bed the cramps were so bad. I have found myself laid out a time or two by an especially painful period; one time my girlfriend came up my walkway to find me kneeling over the edge of the porch and dry-heaving from the pain. The sweetest thing in the world was that she automatically gifted me with a hot cup of tea.
I concur that "period presents" could be juiceboxy if they are coming from a place of a guy thinking you need to be handled with kid gloves once a month because of your crazy emotional ladyparts, but depending on the menstrual experience of the lady in question, period presents could be the truest sign of love and understanding. It's all contextual.
[ Also, apropos of nothing, I hate the expression "on her period". It sounds like "on crack" or "on meth". It also seems a little...dehumanizing? I'm not "on" anything, Broseph, except for the warpath against you. Just die.]
@onedumbbunny Agreed that words have power, and the last thing I'd want to do is strip away power from the word misogyny. However, I do think it's appropriate here. Why? Because I see a strong connection between "I buy my girlfriend presents to help her get through her period" and "women are not as capable/logical/functional when they have their periods, so we should prohibit women from doing XYZ because how can they be trusted with important decisions when they're menstruating." And that, I hope you'll agree, is non-debatable misogyny.
It would also be far from the first time that an attempted "kind gesture" turned out to be misogynistic.
And even if this is a minor infraction (which I'd say the gift-giving itself is) the word still applies. Minor infractions are still infractions.
@apb @cherrispryte Yeah, I'm worried about the implication that he's thinking about it regularly. Maybe she just brings it up every month, which would be different, but I have this idea that he is fixating on it a little in a grossed out way. I would prefer for my man to just not think about it at all. Don't think of me as this weird other that bleeds cyclically!
@cherrispryte Oh man, I am so okay with calling things misogynistic, because I think that, when you put some thought into it, so many things effectively are.
@wee_ramekin Also hate the term "on one's period." My boyfriend and I call it Shark Week.
@Acrylic Disaster Maybe the difference between us here is the analogy of the chicken soup. If I'm sick and miserable and stuck on the couch all weekend with a cold, heck yes it's awesome if my guy buys me soup and gets a movie I'll like. That's thoughtful. But it would not be awesome if he saw someone sneeze on me, and decided for himself that I WILL be sick and I will NOT be able to get over it myself, and just automatically bought me chicken soup before I even ever started to feel like shit.
There is such a thing as a guy being too "thoughtful." I've been with a few, and it is emotionally draining to try to feel like I have to "reward" him for every little "nice" thing he does, or to try to act like I actually do need ice cream and a movie when in actuality, I just need midol and a tampon and I'm set. It's tiring for someone to constantly default to seeing me as a damsel in distress when I have given him no actual reason for him to think that, except that he just wants to feel like my knight in shining armor so he invents situations that he thinks I need saving from. In those situations, he's not really paying attention to ME at all, he's paying attention to who he wants me to be so he can be who he wants to be (my hero).
@cherrispryte i don't want to belabor this, but i can't accept that. your first comment still strikes me as a kneejerk overreaction. misogyny, as you know, is the hatred or strong dislike of females. boyfriend may hate or strongly dislike putting his p in her v, but unless my reading comprehension skills have totally flown the coop in my advanced age, there is nothing in the letter to indicate that he hates or dislikes girlfriend, let alone several, many or all females simply because they are female. rather, it seems he is deeply, deeply confused about most or all things "woman" and, while there is obviously MUCH room for self-improvement and actualization, it is one hell of a jump from sad, perplexed juicebox to misogynist. if his intentions are pure and he has no hidden agenda, even if it is poorly received (and in this case, she seems to be quite appreciative), to lump all "period presenters" (what? ack!) onto the misogynist pile is patently wrong and unfair to everyone.
in any case, having said that, i'm happy to agree to disagree and move on to more important things, like, say, for example, lunch.
@onedumbbunny To my thinking, I would include in the definition of misogyny the belief that women are inferior. And I think there's strong evidence of that here. I also see misogyny as going hand-in-hand with proponents of The Patriarchy (something I try to avoid mentioning here, as it inspires some eye-rolling) and I think the idea of "helping your girlfriend through her period via presents" is a very patriarchal thing to do.
But as you've said, agree to disagree, etc.
@onedumbbunny I generally object when people claim that something can't be misogyny "because it means the hatred of females" — it's the same way that people claim that something can't be homophobic because homophobia is the fear of gay people. "I'm not afraid of them, I just think they're perverse!" Misogyny can be broadly defined as thinking that a woman is lesser, and if someone thinks that women (as a whole, not a specific woman) need help to get through a menstrual process, or that their period makes them crazy or irrational or not fully functioning, that's misogyny to me.
@KeLynn Okay, I get it. My experience is different because my period has been miserable since my first. For years I had to take two days off school or work. Vomited up to 11 times a day on the first day. Insane pain…like, screaming into my pillow. Every month. Medications didn't help. Even now that it's a bit better, I'm extremely uncomfortable and feel depressed. Like, I really think I'm depressed even though, duh, I should know this happened last month! So for me it would be welcome attention. For those who just need a tampon and a Midol, I see how it's an overreaction.
@waitykaitie Well for a lot of women it is a normal part of life, but not healthy. But see my previous comment. I see where you're coming from.
You know what? My periods are painful and horrible, and I do tend to act/feel a bit crazy. As such, I wouldn't mind receiving some useful presents. Probably in the order of painkillers, massages and hot water bottles, but presents nonetheless. Y'all are being too sensitive.
Also I really have to agree that @cherrispryte is misusing the word misogynistic here. "You seem like you're suffering every month, and the only way I know to help is by buying you slightly misguided and useless presents", while annoying, IN NO WAY IMPLIES THE HATRED OF WOMEN.
Another thing to remember about gay marriage: the fact that all of a sudden, EVERYBODY is getting gaymarried might have something to do with the fact that couples who've been together for decades all of a sudden have the legal right to put a ring on it. Gay marriages will slow down soon enough, and then start declining, just like opposite marriage, and through it all we disapproving old maids can remain as smug and self-righteous as ever.
@Daniel S. Johnson hahahah "opposite marriage" is my new favorite phrase. thanks!
@realtalk Like if you're shaped like a circle you have to marry a triangle. Circle is the opposite of triangle, right? Or is it square?
@Ham_Snadwich I believe "opposite marriage" was an unintentionally-hilarious thing said by that jackass who won Miss California, Whatshername Prejean or whatever, who revealed she was a huge homophobe and was against gay marriage, citing "opposite marriage" as the only good kind of marriage. Everyone died laughing. I think her crown was later revoked, or at least called into question, by the revelation that she had received money FROM THE MISS CALIFORNIA PAGEANT COMMITTEE (or whatever) to get breast implants. Or something? It would demean my dignity to wikipedia that shit but anyway.
Opposite Marriage is indeed the best thing ever. I mean the phrase, not the legal institution.
@dracula's ghost Oh yeah, thems jokes above.
@Ham_Snadwich CARRIE PREJEAN!!!!!! Ugh why hast thou forced me to remember her name
all joking aside, that lady sucks
@Daniel S. Johnson
This is my favorite mocking analysis of Prejean. Enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bieDx14M-m8
@dracula's ghost But she's married to quarterback Kyle Boller, which is every lady's dream. Unless you dream of marrying a good quarterback.
There was this guy I thought was gay until I slept with him; turns out he's just Brazilian.
@Nutmeg One of my favorite games is "gay or Italian?"
@Nutmeg Oh, totally!
@rararuby Or in my case, "I thought he was gay 'til we had sex and it turned out he's just an actor [acTOR]"
@Nutmeg Or in MY case "I thought he was gay 'til we had sex but then it turned out he actually was gay and I was just an experiment, oops."
@Suzy Safety fritalian!
@Suzy Safety Also "Gay or Southern?"
@Xanthophyllippa hahaha, my mom and I had the biggest argument about whether or not my brother's college friend was gay; she thought he was, but I kept insisting, "No, Mom, he's just from the south."
@Nutmeg PS: it turns out he's totally gay (for some reason, neither of us thought to ask my brother?)
@Nutmeg Ah the classic bar game: Is he gay or European?
@Suzy Safety Haha! We used to have a running joke about guys with ambiguous sexual identity – "he's a little…European."
@Amanda McNeil@twitter I'm from Canada; gay or French?
@Xanthophyllippa But what if it's Rock Hudson and he's BOTH?
@Craftastrophies ROCK HUDSON WAS CANADIAN?!
ETA: Oh wait I misread the thread. He was southern. Carry on.
@Suzy Safety Not totally related, but I work in the club level at Bronco games and my favorite game is daughter or girlfriend? (Usually girlfriend.)
@Suzy Safety I play "Lesbian or German?" with my wife all the time.
LW2, it's okay to be lonely and not thrilled about being single. But… did you READ your letter before you submitted it? Because I, personally, don't consider single people incomplete. But I actively avoid people who resent the happiness of others. Not a cute look.
@insouciantlover tooootally. Lw2 is like "gay marriage is cool and all but now i'm feeling pretty weird about being single…. So can't they just take it back??"
@insouciantlover but she never said she was lonely or unhappy about being single! isn't that the whole point of her rant?
@blahstudent Mmm let's agree that her unhappiness was unstated but fairly obvious.
@blahstudent Well no, she didn't say it. But I'm saying that it would be okay if she were. But being a bitch about gay rights is less okay.
@insouciantlover Seriously. It's like, I spend all day at a job I hate so I can support my family, and I spend weekends drinking away the pain of that situation. I don't have time or inclination to worry about random single people's situations. Drink with me or go home.
DOUCHEBADGER. That (and all the kickass advice) made my day.
@Daisy Razor Srsly, douchebadger for the win.
@Daisy Razor Okay, totally unrelated but – OMG, do you play roller derby?! 'Cause your name is one of the best (potential) roller derby names I've seen. Punny, but not too much so. Perfection.
"If he's such a rescuer, why doesn't he feel the need to rescue you from the pain and heartbreak of blue balls?"
Uh, blue labia, actually. And yeah, it's painful.
Term-wise, I just have to give a shout-out to my new favorite acronym: QUILTBAG. Many letters, spells a word! And is also a metaphor.
@Lily Rowan But what does it mean?!
@illcommunication Per someone on the internet:
Queer/Questioning
Unisex / Undecided
Intersex
Lesbian
Transgender / Transsexual
Bisexual
Allied / Asexual
Gay / Genderqueer
@Lily Rowan (Although I myself am skeptical about including Allies…)
@Lily Rowan I recently discovered The Best Term Ever, which gets ride of the entire ridiculous alphabet soup problem (there's also QUILTBABPIPE which includes Pansexual people, among others.)
GSM = Gender and Sexual Minorities. Gay people! Trans people! Polysexual people! Non-binary people! Asexual people! We don't need a million billion letters, just three! Hooray!
@Napoleon GSM isn't a word! But yes.
@Lily Rowan Yeah, but you can use it as an adjective now.
I take issue with using "queer" as a catch-all term for all GSM because, uh, not everyone who is a GSM is queer. Intersex people aren't queer by virtue of being intersex. Hetero asexual people aren't either.
I wrote a whole post about this on my tumblr ("BOOO GET OF THE STAGE")
http://tinyurl.com/3w2v2h4
@Napoleon, not Garlic Spaghetti Monster? (Or Gyrating, the god(dess) of exotic dancers.)
@Napoleon It's also the opposite of MSG.
@Lily Rowan I think QUILTBAG is awesome too! Actual acronym FTW. But I also like LGBTQQIAA (Queer Questioning Intersex Asexual Allies) because LGBT is already SO entrenched in the public lexicon already…but there are problems with that too, some of which were raised above. There's no P!
Must we include the pansexuals? Can't we just export them to French Canada?
@melis Fine. Me and my Calphalon are moving to Quebec.
@melis There's no Canada like French Canada, it's the best Canada in the land!
@cosmia The other Canada is hardly Canada! If you lived here for a day you'd understand!
Okay fine this cartoon clip convinced me to love pansexuals AND French Canada again. Everybody dance now!
@Lily Rowan WTF is unisex??
GSM: Grenache, syrah, and mouvedre!
@Napoleon I used to know a lot of queer theory people in grad school, and their definition of queer, which was sort of a radical politics view, was just anyone who challenged the heteronormative paradigm (I think there was someone upthread making fun of the term heteronormative!) was queer. So in that way, being asexual or intersex is queer. Being a really normative married gay couple with kids living in the burbs…less so.
@Mila Interesting.
I feel like there needs to be two queers – one for sexuality and one for gender? I am cis, so I don't think I can speak to that properly, but I have heard a few different people of different genderqueer flavours express as much, as well.
I use queer for myself for the same reasons that Queer Chick used – bisexual seems really rigid and not appropriate. I feel like I am pretending when I use that. But 'queer' encompases 'pan romantic, but mostly into sex with dudes, whatever that means, but also a bit kinky and poly and also kind of weird'. All the other labels I've always felt appropriative using, but queer is COMFORTABLE.
I can see why it isn't a perfect term, but some of the flaws are the things I like best about it. It's descriptive enough without being too specific. It tells people anything they might need to know about me immediately, and the rest they will either find out or it's not their business.
"he is the least selfish person I know. In fact, his therapist … actually told him he has a "rescuer" personality"
So, you're saying his therapist agrees that he's selfish, then.
(That's what that means.)
@queenofbithynia Ha! Yes! My sister has a tendency for dating this type, and on the surface they seem so giving, but there is something deeply selfish about this type of behavior. Like, they always seem deeply invested in their perception as a giving person, so when they are called on selfish behavior, they absolutely can't deal with it/change said behavior. And there is something very much "all about them" in their coming swooping in to save the day all the time. And then some "now you are indebted to me" weirdness.
@queenofbithynia Jack! Jack from Lost! He's that guy. That guy to the MAX.
@Mila Yes, I think that's exactly the issue that I have with the whole "period presents" for every period thing — it seems very "look at me and how thoughtful I am!" And there's nothing about this guy that makes that seem not true. I mean, I'd much rather get flowers or french fries or something when I'm just having a shitty day, rather than ice cream every four Mondays because he's marked it on his calendar.
@Mila There is some old story by…Theodore Sturgeon? where this guy (I forget if he is an inhuman monster or just a yokel of some sort) finds some wounded runaway girl and takes exquisite care of her and brings her food while her broken bones knit blah blah blah and then she gets better and is about to leave, so he has to break some more of her bones and tie her to the bed, and the story ends just like it began.
Not saying that the guy from the letter is a tragically deluded Sturgeonesque man-beast, unless, you know, he is. Who knows! Dudes should know that that is what the "rescuer type" always brings to mind, though.
@thebestjasmine YES EXACTLY.
@Mila Yes, exactly! My ex was very similar to this type in that he was convinced he was helping me/friends by insisting that we try doing something this way, and ONLY his solution to our problems was the right one. He would get mad because I didn't insist he fix my problems for me, under the guise of "well you don't appreciate that I care about you" blah blah.
@cosmia Isn't this the personality type of firefighters who start forest fires and shit like that? Because that's what I thought of…
@missustufnel YES. Jack can suck my ovaries. I hated him the whole series, for exactly this. Wipe that smug-ass grin off your perfectly stubbled face, douchebadger.
@Lady Pennyface
Ditto. Except that I wouldn't want his self-important mouth on my ovaries. I tried to watch episode 1 of Lost. My brother was begging me to. I told him I couldn't deal with "that doctor guy." He was like, "Oh. Okay. Um, then yeah, don't watch it." Eventually I did, but he was just ridiculous the whole way through. Did anyone notice how often he cried??? I watched the first 5 seasons back to back on netflix, so maybe it stood out even more to me.
@Acrylic Disaster I think the fandom actually calls them Jears. (for Jack's tears.) So, probably.
@queenofbithynia I read that story! Skeeved me the fuck out. I know a fair few people like that. You know, people who do The Right Things for you, but are not actually paying attention. Anyone can buy a dozen roses or chocolates.
The first present my sweetie ever bought me was a crochet hook, because I couldn't find mine that was the right size and I wanted to start a project. It probably cost him $2 but I almost cried when he gave it to me because it showed he had been LISTENING.
@queenofbithynia Ooooh have you seen "The United States of Tara"? The husband, Max, always seemed to me like the classic "rescuer," who was always so 'selfless' in an entirely self-centered way.
I got as far as the Madonna thing, and ran down here to say: GIRL. RUN.
Marriage Girl: I actually kind of get where you are coming from. It's not OMG I'M A CARRIE, or whatever. It's an actual feeling. When you reach a certain age, it seems like everybody is partnered. It's kind of hard not to internalize not being partnered as some kind of personal defect. Being single kind of sucks: paying more for everything bc you don't have a partner, not having a built in dinner date, not having a travel partner, etc. Coupling is totally the norm in our society, logistical issues (I live in a new city. I had to get my car repaired. Who will pick me up from the mechanic/drive me to work?). I know everybody is going to say ROCK BEING SINGLE, but it's really fucking hard. I try to do that, but there are these little quiet moments (or big hard ones) where I realize my cat will probably eat my bones when I die.
I moved from NYC where unmarried girls my age were all over the place. In my new home, people are way more coupled. Frankly, it's difficult. Honestly? It's hard not to feel like the 3rd wheel when all your couple friends are out w. you.
Here's some reality: I wanted to have a baby. I'm really interested in birth, blahblahblah. I'm 36. Chances are, I won't be having that baby bc I am not partnered. I don't have the income to have a baby alone (which I would totally do) and I don't want to adopt if I ever do partner (bc I am so fascinated by birth. By the time I partner (if ever), statistics indicate I will be too old to have a baby. That is fucking reality, my friends.
*Please not I am not addressing the privilige issues. I'm just talking about being Forever Alone. It's easy to marginalize the OP as being bitter or whatever, but it's more than that.
@Manatee YES. This is how I feel all the time.
@Manatee Pls. excuse my gramamr. I got all excited and didn't proofread.
@Manatee Yes, yes, all of this. I really want to have a baby too and I just don't see it happening for me. I'm going to be an old dog lady though.
@likethestore Maybe we can take our old lady dogs to the park and hang out together?
@Manatee What you're describing is….not a queer issue, though. And not even related to marriage, for what that's worth.
@Manatee I feel like partnered people, especially people who partnered up young, don't get how overwhelming the social pressure on women who reach a certain age unpartnered can be. It's like the death by a thousand cuts of social pressure. Each weird look and judgey comment is manageable by itself. But when they all add up, and it feels like the pressure is coming from all corners, you get feelings like the LW is expressing. And they are not always expressed in ways that people find palatable.
@Manatee I get what you're saying here, but it sounds like LW2 isn't feeling that she's defective for not having a partner. In fact, she seems quite happy being single. It sounds kind of like she's railing against Those People Out There who place being partnered about being single. Which, yeah, okay, but again, why is she caring what Those People Out There (AKA completely and total strangers) think about her relationship status? Maybe I'm getting crusty these days, but partnered or single, I couldn't spare two shits about what people who are not my friends/family members I enjoy think of me.
If you are UNHAPPY being single, and not rocking it, as LW2 seems to be, and you're feeling marginalized on top of it, that is a very different story. And one that deserves to be told and heard, but I don't think that's LW2's story. Unless I am missing something. Which I have been known to do.
@Manatee I agree, and also, I think it's ok to have had a complicated reaction to the whole gay marriage issue. On one hand, yes, I am a huge supporter of my gay friends being able to get married if they want to, and have all the rights and benefits that go along with that. ON THE OTHER HAND, though, I am opposed to marriage on principle, for everyone, because I don't believe the state should be involved in granting or withholding rights to individuals based on their marital status, and I worry that the push for gay marriage has only entrenched the existence of marriage even further. (i.e., "now everyone can get married, so stop questioning marriage!") I thought the questioner was coming a little more from that perspective – "ugh, now the pressure for everyone to get married is even worse than it was before, but I don't want to/am not getting married, so WTF am I supposed to do?" The problem is that there is no way to articulate this without it coming off as begrudging of gay couples' happiness at finally being able to get married, which I am not, at all. Sigh.
@Manatee Just thank you. I'm partnered now but I've been there and done that scene and it gets so hard hearing people be all "NO WAY SINGLE IS TOTALLY LEGIT, YOU'RE NOT ROCKING HARD ENOUGH" when you're trying to discuss Real Issues you're having planning your life. In fact, that was probably the most honest discussion of the issues of singleness I've ever read. I wish I'd read this conversation two years ago.
@Manatee
For a while, it seemed to me that everyone was getting married, and I was married. Then I got a divorce, and now everyone else is getting a divorce too. Just wait it out.
@Manatee I know the feeling, Honey. I would have the HARDEST time not blowing up at family (especially) when I was single and they'd ask, "so are you seeing anyone?' Questions like that just reinforced the notion that I was not WHOLE without an SO, that I as an individual making it on my own had no value.. it fucking sucks.
But girl, I didn't meet Mr. Lids til I was 35, married him at 36 and am now preggers.. (I'll be 38 when mini-lids is born), so hang in there and keep being awesome! It's hard to keep your head up, I know, but I have a very good feeling that you're a tough one!
@Manatee I am with you that the social pressures on single women are No Fun, especially if you don't want to be single. But LW2 isn't dealing with that problem. She is being upset because… why? Something that has nothing to do with her is maybe being used by people who have nothing to do with her relationship status to say things that make her upset? Or something?
Her relationship status will not be improved or unimproved because of the way her gaymarried gay friends conduct their lives. Save the resentment for people getting up in your business and leave your friends who are doing what makes them happy out of it.
Also, I find my own issues with being single pretty much don't get better when I project my problems with social pressures on to my partnered friends and family. They get dealt with when I tell people to mind their own damn business, though.
@AnthroK8 I have the feeling that what happened is BAM everyone is getting married and she's freaking out. I relate to that feeling because I had a phase where BAM everyone was getting married and it was freaking me out. BUT she should back off and realize soon it's gonna go back to a normal trickle, and this right now is an anomaly. An anomaly that is NOT ABOUT HER.
@Manatee Yes, EXACTLY. Couples are just everywhere and regardless of whether you're happy, sad, or indifferent about being single, the messages of 'Couples are the BEST! Being a couple is THE WAY TO BE!' is relentless. Even if you're really into being single, you start to feel like a weird outsider (and also maybe sometimes wonder how other people your age and younger managed to get to the point where they found someone. How? Where? Why?).
@sevanetta And there really are real social pressures to be coupled up. Some of those things are the things that made equal marriage important – like tax cuts and family insurance and access to your partner if they are in hospital.
I was capital S Single for a long time, and as much as I truly did love being single, this stuff got to me. I've been partnered for a year now, but I still feel single a lot, socially. We're not planning on getting married, and probably won't live together for some years because he has kids. So we probably won't have kids together either. Every time politicians talk about 'family values' and 'working families' I cringe a bit. Apparently my vote is not important. There's not a box for our relationship on the census form, it literally does not exist for them. Which is fine, I'll take the relief of the pressure of feeling broken because I can't find a bepenised man to love me. It still makes me angry that I get a pass on a lot of other stuff (being weird, fat, queer, loud, etc) because at least someone loves me. I mean, yay! someone loves me! But also, fuck off, everyone.
Anyway, the point is, those things and slights and pressure are really real, and they start to weigh you down. I can TOTALLY see feeling alienated from a group you previously only had solidarity with, and how upsetting that is. But it really isn't about that. It's a related but separate issue, and the way the poster talked about gay marriage makes them sound more unhappy and mean than they probably are.
Yeah, it sucks. But seriously, Claire's right. The divorces will come around soon enough, just wait it out. Also, once you hit a certain age, people assume you're on the shelf, and they'll stop asking! Yay?
@Craftastrophies Oh, they never stop asking! It's just that the amount of condescending pity ramps way up, and the asking usually relates to some form of internet dating. "I just read an article about this cool new site called DatingforOver30SadSacksWithNoStandards.com, have you tried it yet? I think they could have someone for you!" I wish they would just let me stretch out on my shelf and nap without interference for once.
@kayjay To me, it's clear she is lonely and feeling marginalized, and trying to rock singledom out of necessity. I get this from the way she keeps referencing society at large– what she's saying may be true, but it's obviously an attempt to take (what she feels is already mounting) pressure off herself. To admit that you're lonely and that you're not single by choice puts you in a pretty vulnerable spot, and it's easier to get angry than to just admit that, "Wow, all my friends being coupled is making me feel really insecure, and I don't know how to tactfully ask them to stop haranguing me about when I'm getting married."
…giving head grudgingly because you're hoping to be repaid later is a quick way to kill your fun, playful sex life and replace it with boredom, resignation, and a whole lot of “I'm just really tired tonight.”
This is SO TRUE. I've been there. My ex husband was definitely a score-keeper in the bedroom (he thought I should give him more blowjobs/handjobs because his orgasms weren't as powerful as mine, so he should have more orgasms to even it out), and it was one of the many things that killed our relationship. (Incidentally, he also complained about the lack of blowjobs even though I have TMJ disorder. Dude was a real winner.)
I've never been in a situation where I wasn't in the mood to give head to a lady though, because it is The Best Thing Ever.
@jen325 I totally agree as well but ALSO got into a really frustrating situation with my ex where I started keeping score/withholding because I wasn't getting the reciprocity even though I LOVE GIVING … tmi internet. You know where I was going. It was one of those things we talked about and he promised to do it more and then he never did and argh I really hated that it became so tit for tat but yet I couldn't help but feel resentful for doing it when I normally enjoy it so much and ARGH.
so anyways. Dude was a real winner. word.
@redheadedandcrazy I can understand keeping score in that case, and it's a shame he drove you to that. Unfortunately, once you reach that point the relationship is kind of doomed.
I'm so glad we're not with those douchebadgers anymore!
Hi LW2!
I just wanted to say that if your friends think you are incomplete because you are single, they aren't your real friends.
Sorry for the tired truism, but there it is. I want my friends to be happy. I have plenty of unhappily married friends, and I would never wish that on anyone, single, straight or gay.
It also doesn't get any easier for anyone else, I promise. See, even if I do get married(like I have), the questions don't stop. They just get increasingly personal. Now my uterus is the popular topic in the office, as in when it will become occupied with spawn.
I'm happy with my partner and without kids, but other people don't like that choice. It's as if the question-askers are trying to rationalize their life decisions by projecting onto mine! I just try and come up with snazzy answers that politely frame their out-of-bounds-ness.
My favorite acronym to denote as many members of the queer population as possible: QUILTBAG
I really didn't have the harsh reaction to LW2, though I find most of the weird pressure coming from straight people — i.e. "now that it's legal, are you going to???"
Granted, it also fucks with my head when I get the "ohmygod you're such a cute lesbian couple!" when all I want to do is bring a date.
LW2 doesn't sound like she wants to be a character in SATC, but is probably dealing with very new expectations for queers where suddenly the rules have changed.
LW3: SIGTEMFPOIGTCYFT
Re: #1, I have a friend who stayed with her now-ex for TWO YEARS without ANY sex. They'd been together for five total by the time she left. And people give her mad grief for it because she's 28, would eventually like to have the babies and all, and they're basically like, "What, you're too good for him? Why won't you settle?" (Implied that she won't settle like everyone else???) And while I'm not all DTMFA if you don't get your needs met because a relationship is not ALL about sex ALWAYS ALL OR NOTHING, it's also something that matters. So like I told my friend, find the balance, and #1, this isn't it. Get OUT. This dude doesn't sound like a good guy who happens to suck in bed. He sounds kind of like a sociopath who fronts with gifts while your goodies bleed and he recoils in terror.
Also, it's been covered, but LW1 your boyfriend does not have to be gay for the two of you to be incompatible and for you to be free of him. So just quit obsessing over Possible Signs Of Teh Gay and be glad that you are no longer with a guy who refuses to touch your vulva with his hand! The End.
Girl #1- Yes, your ex-boyfriend is gay.
How did that make you feel?
If you were relieved, maybe you already didn't want to be with him but wanted it to be for different reasons than the fact that he's a selfish jerk. It's hard to face that fact about someone you love, who you've invested years with, etc.
But STAY AWAY. There are so many, many fish in the sea, and you're better off alone than with him anyway. This is years of experience talking. Low self-esteem and nagging self-doubt will make you put up with stuff that will make you shake your head later on. Please stay away from this guy, regardless of his sexual orientation/preference/non-preference.
And if me telling you he was gay didn't make you feel relieved? Pretty much everything I just said still holds true. Best of luck to you. You have a lot to offer. Only give it to those who deserve it and give back, you gorgeous-sweet-caring-funny girl.
But…but…I'm a partnered person, and it seems like all of my friends are single! And they seem so happy and bursting with child-free disposable income! And everyday they ask me, "But kayjay, when are you going to break up with your boyfriend so you can run around and be single, too?" And I keep saying, "GUH, you guys. I don't know. I just feel like it's never going to happen for me. It's not like I'm getting any younger."
I'm really just joking. Again, I am confused by "friends" who are jerks and get all up in your grill about shit like this. Are your "friends" really giving you a hard time about not being partnered? Because I'm guessing that's what's happening. If that's the case, they are not your friends (yes, I went all Mom there for a second).
And if it's just strangers and stuff you read on the Internet, then why do you give a rat's flying fuckward what other people think of your life and not being partnered? If you're happy, that's good enough. I'm sorry, it's just that simple.
@kayjay Lol.
I'm married with kids, and my kids sometimes spend weekends with their dad. And I have a lot of single friends, and sometimes, some of them say things like, "When's the next time your kids will be gone, so we can have fun?"
When they say that, I think they're being a little inconsiderate. But I would never write a letter to the Hairpin saying, "I hate the way all single people don't care about my kids and are pressuring me and making me feel weird about being a parent! Sob!"
Is it just me? Am I missing out on the joy of being a victim of society?
@kayjay It's not necessarily friends who say this stuff, but usually coworkers or friendly acquaintances, spouses of friends, etc. I would dump a friend who ragged on me about being single, but, like, for example, a long-term friend's husband pretty frequently says these sorts of things to me, and I know he means well, but he just doesn't get it, and it is infuriating. He really thinks that everyone wants to be like him (married, kid, suburbs), and just refuses to believe that I am not interested in that lifestyle, and I can't really tell him to f-off because he's married to one of my best friends. And he is a nice guy, otherwise. Just clueless. He thinks he is being "helpful" kind of in the same way that mothers "help" by totally undermining your self-esteem through cutting comments. They just want you to be better!
@WaityKatie Is there some middle ground between telling him to fuck off and saying nothing but being angry about it all the time? For instance, could you tell him, "Hey, man, you're starting to give me a complex. I get that you're happy being married and you want me to be happy, too, but really — I'm good. Thanks."? Or is that too direct?
@Xora I'm actually not angry about it all the time, and I generally deal with it by issuing some sort of sarcastic response. He's not "giving me a complex," because I reject his premises. Yet, it is still annoying. As interactions with other humans often are. I think any time you're getting condescended to by someone you do not view as your superior, that's gonna be pretty freaking annoying. Anyway, I was just ranting. I just thought that all these comments from the coupled of how "nobody ever makes single people feel inferior," and "it's all your fault for imagining slights, I'm awesome and love everyone equally and never try to put myself above anyone, blah blah blah" needed a wee dose of corrective reality.
@WaityKatie Gotcha.
Sorry your b-i-l's a dick. Since I am awesome and I do love everyone equally and I never do try to put myself above anyone, though, so I'm not going to judge him for it.
Am I the only one who thinks it's a complete and total asshole move to speculate on someone else's sexuality, even if you're in a relationship with that person?
And could we possibly be using any more stereotypes!? LW1 has "he really likes Madonna" ranked higher than "he's had gay experiences" in her list of potential gay signs, for fuck's sake.
@cherrispryte : I'm kind of with you there – I think whateverlolawants kind of nailed it when she called out the LW for looking for reasons besides the primary one (that he is not satisfying her) to break up with him. If your boyfriend isn't giving you what you want, that's the issue. Sometimes guys lose attraction to girlfriends/wives/significant others – it doesn't mean they're gay, even paired with such compelling evidence as "he has a huge Madonna collection".
(And it doesn't mean your unlovable or unattractive either. It just happens)
@cherrispryte I think ESPECIALLY if you're in a relationship with that person! If you're questioning your partner's sexuality, chances are you don't really trust what your partner's telling you. Or your partner is enough of a mess to be lying to you. Both of which are "Get out of there" situations.
@cherrispryte I don't think it makes you an asshole–you can't help the thoughts that pop into your head or nagging feelings you have. But you can control how you react to them. In this case, I think she should recognize that questioning her partner's sexuality probably says as much or more about her (lack of) sexual compatibility with/interest in him as it does about his actual orientation.
(Edited to say that yeah, those stereotypes are ridonkulous [although I'd run screaming from anyone of any orientation who had thousands of dollars of Madonna merch], but they're probably the only way she has of rationalizing her understandably bad feelings about him…which A Queer Chick did a really good job of sussing out.]
@KatieWK "You can't help the thoughts that pop into your head" is never really a good justification of anything. It's more than just the letter writer – I have LOTS of friends who do this, some of whom are gay themselves, and it just pisses me off – people are what they say they are. Period. End of story.
@cherrispryte It's never a good justification for voicing or acting on them, but I guess I'm just not of the opinion that spontaneously having a thought makes you a bad person.
I'm with you on the "people are what they say they are" thing when it comes to others (I have one old childhood friend in particular whose new fiance I haven't yet met, but whom EVERYONE in our extended circle insists on telling me all the time is gay, and it's so gossipy and bullshitty and annoying). But I think people are allowed to scrutinize what's going on in their own bed. Being in relationships makes us vulnerable. I like to take people at their word, but it can be hard to do that in a relationship, especially one that's as fucked up as LW1's sounds. Obviously, if it were a healthy relationship, she probably wouldn't be having these thoughts to begin with…not trying to justify, but I can sympathize with misreading signals and having trust issues. Also, sometimes people aren't what they say they are. It doesn't make them bad people, but it happens. I've seen straight relationships break up when one person comes out and it's painful on all sides.
@cherrispryte I think she's young and trying to understand why her asshole boyfriend won't give her a goddamned orgasm. The stereotypes are silly but when you're having a serious life problem, you're generally not sitting around thinking, "Gosh, I hope this isn't a stereotype." I didn't see any malice in her letter. I saw loneliness and confusion and heartbreak. Any person in that situation would start to speculate about a range of possibilities.
@FoxyRoxy WORD. Speaking as someone who once was in LW1's situation, I can say that my thought wasn't "Am I being offensive wondering about his sexuality?" My thought was, "Shit, my own boyfriend doesn't like having sexytimes with me." (He was out to me as bi, but I thought he might be full-on gay).
He did start dating dudes after we broke up, so there's that too.
@FoxyRoxy Yup. The letter writer is only 22 and was with this guy for four years. This was her first major relationship, her first love.
I've never dated a guy who I thought was in the closet, but I can relate to being young and in love, but having certain, key things about a relationship being really off. It doesn't help if the people close to you are saying that your feelings/concerns are not valid and that you will NEVER!!! find anyone as good as the current partner.
Anyway, I think the advice is spot on. Ex-boyfriend may or may not be gay, but the relationship clearly caused the writer a lot of anguish and misery. That is more than enough reason to GTFO.
"What would be worse: My boyfriend being gay, or my boyfriend thinking I'm unattractive? Hmm… He *does* like Madonna…"
@cherrispryte She's just trying to figure out what's going on in her relationship. You've never done that, when you know something's wrong and he's not telling you what it is? Why is speculating about his sexuality any worse (or better for that matter) than speculating whether he's in love with another woman?
My dad lists The Carpenters, ABBA, The Patridge Family and Melissa Fucking Manchester as his favorite musical acts of all time. He was a stay at home dad who does all the cooking and cleaning, the only alcoholic drinks he's ever consumed were (1) a strawberry daiquiri and (2) an amaretto and coke. He is a happy and happily-married straight man because, shockingly enough, his cultural tastes don't influence his sexuality in any particular direction. If your boyfriend is gay the only "evidence" for it is that he wants to fuck other dudes.
@Diana Your dad made me remember the Lyle, the Effeminate Heterosexual skit on old school Saturday Night Live.
@Diana WORD to your father. My boyfriend* picks out my clothes for me when we shop, because I have no sense of style. He's a stay at home dad who does about 90% of the cooking and ALL of the cleaning, and has feng shuied the shit of our apartment so well that it makes me never want to leave. He's clean cut, smells good, files his nails, can dance well and has a flair for design and art. And let me tell you, he is most definitely straight. Isn't it 2011? Aren't we finished with these silly gay stereotypes yet? It's insane.
*Can we come up with a better word than "boyfriend"? I feel like I should be able to call him something else, since we're both in our late 30s. 'Boyfriend' after a certain point in your life just seems so silly and high-school-y, doesn't it?
@Diana My dad is effing in love with both Madonna and Annie Lennox, and all his apartment decor is from Pier 1 Imports, WHOSE MEMBERSHIP CARD IS ON HIS KEYCHAIN. He is also like 220 pounds of muscle and used to go camping alone in the desert and drinks whiskey and is unabashedly comfortable in his masculinity and straightness.
"Listen, Madonna is hot. You can't expect a guy my age not to be attracted to her." – The Source Of Half My DNA
@kayjay: yes please – boyfriend is not floating my boat lately. And if I say "partner" I feel like people assume I'm gay and talking about my girlfriend.
PS: my boyfriend sounds like yours in a lot of ways – we've discussed how he'll be the SAHD when we have kids, and I'll be his sugar momma – I love it.
@kayjay "Lover"? Just kidding, but I feel your pain. I'm 34 and I don't like using the term "boyfriend" either.
@kayjay Let me tell you, it feels even weirder when I refer to my mom's boyfriend.
@teenie Argh, deleted myself. I just said I use the word "partner" on purpose even though I'm a cis lady married to a cis dude because most of our friends are queer. Does it matter if people assume incorrectly?
@friendshipcamel : technically, no. I find that I come across situations where I am stereotyped as a lesbian by ignoramus's (what is that plural? ignorami?) occasionally for stupid superficial reasons (like the way I keep my hair). Although I flirted with bisexuality in my early 20's and consider myself socially progressive etc etc, I like being hetero, and enjoy being perceived as such? I don't want to start a shit storm, and certainly don't look down on anyone who isn't hetero.
Thinking about it further, I guess I've felt marginalized by a number of factors as an adult. As backwards as it seems, I don't want to be marginalized further by ignorant people making an assumption about my sexuality that isn't true. Which certainly points to the fact that there is work to be done on the sexuality equality front.
@vanillawaif i like "my man." gets the point across, doesn't sound like we are 15.
on the other hand, my business partner is a lady and i feel goofy introducing her as "my business partner" all the time because it sounds oddly formal for someone who i giggle with so much. but when i say "partner" people get an inaccurate picture of what's going on.
words are the worst.
@friendshipcamel It does not matter. I have toyed around with saying "partner", and it just feels unnatural, like I'm describing a business partner. Everytime I use it, I instantly picture us in suits carrying briefcases. Sometimes I just get sick of it and just call him my husband because it feels more natural. Maybe I'll mess around with "swain" for a while and see how that fits.
@madge Funny you should mention that…just last week I experimented with using "my old man" instead of "boyfriend" whenever appropriate. It made me laugh but I think it made others uncomfortable.
@kayjay I say "old man." Sometimes if I'm talking to straight-laced republican types I say "partner" to confuse/upset them (b/c even if they know I'm straight, "partner" implies living together without marriage). I say "husband" as a joke to my friends (we are really married though. But I don't like "husband," it's gross). Sometimes "legal spouse" comes up.
But mostly "old man."
"Oh wow, I'd love to, but you know, my old man won't let me" *
*joke
@dracula's ghost Done. Old man it is.
@dracula's ghost
Whaaat? I have never heard "my old man" refer to a boyfriend or romantic partner, ever. I have only ever heard it as a reference to a person's father. No wonder people are feeling uncomfortable!
@Diana It's kind of a 60s throw-back. You're someone's old woman, too, if you're their girlfriend.
@Diana Guess this is the wrong time to mention that when I am hollering for my old man from a distant part of the house, I yell, "Hey, Daddy!" in a twangy, Loretta Lynn voice.
@kayjay Although I prefer the term "pretty mama." (I just realized that I learned everything I need to know about love from the song "Black Water" by the Doobie Brothers.)
@vanillawaif Well it is traditional for husbands to refer to their wives as "my old lady," so I guess I just turned it around. I guess "my old fella" could also suffice.
Now that I think about it, I have heard "fella" used in place of "boyfriend" and though it's a bit twee I think we can all agree it's still better (than "boyfriend").
@dracula's ghost: No matter how gross you think "husband" is, "hubby" is always 1000 times grosser. And "spouse" sounds like you're answering a survey.
"biffle"
@dracula's ghost I'm an idiot for not realizing this earlier and giving her the credit for it, but I think I got "my old man" from the Joni Mitchell song of the same name.
@kayjay I'm a big friend of "manfriend" (or "dudefriend") & "ladyfriend"–also useful when you're trying to refer to someone your friend is dating but you're not sure exactly how they've categorized it yet, e.g., "does your ladyfriend wanna come with us to that thing?"
@kayjay My friends and I use "lady friend" and "gentleman caller," although that's less about being mature and more about glossing over the fact that you and this person, although you are circling each other and have possibly gone out some, may or may not be actually "dating." (It's beautifully vague, like "hooking up." Oh, being in your early twenties is so great.)
I also want to bring back "beau." And I like the sound of "Person of Interest" even though, or possibly because, it probably goes in the "creepy" pile.
@kayjay: It isn't my idea and I haven't yet used it, but I heard someone refer to their live in love as their "bonemate." If there was any way I could pull that off, I would.
I thought I hated boyfriend until we got engaged. God, I hate fiance more than anything whatsoever. Sofa king pretentious and ick. I am back to boyfriend until we tie the knot.
@dracula's ghost My Old Dude?
@kayjay i totally just say, "my dude." i think he calls me "my lady." we're also not technically in one of those relationship things though.
side note: i have a married couple as friends and the man refers to the woman as "my wife" or "the wife." some of my friends think this is disrespectful or overly possessive, but i think it's cute. thoughts?
@snakeantlers Hmmm, I think it's a little on the possessive, objectifying side myself. What about just using our names. I really like the idea of My Old Dude being an actually Old Dude and being all like, "I'll check with rararuby if she's free that night and get back to you." I mean I have never stopped calling my best friends by their names, y'know?
@snakeantlers "my wife" seems pretty normal and basic to me. I say "my brother" or "my mom" or "one of my friends" all the time, seems like the same sort of thing?
"the wife" is hokey at best. but if it's an otherwise good relationship and she doesn't mind, whateves.
@karion My partner and I sometimes refer to each other as "wangmate," but that's kind of an inside joke.
@Four Horsemeals of the Eggporkalypse Good point, but I feel like the wife/ husband thing is maybe more loaded with potentially negative cultural baggage than those other relationships. I have nothing against marriage but I don't like the idea of being someone's wife – it feels a little identity-sapping. But I'm open to the idea that that may be a defensive stance.
@rararuby No, I see your point. The feelings on the matter of the wife in question are the most important thing and everyone should do what they feel most comfortable with. I'm just saying that if someone else referred to "my wife" in conversation I probably wouldn't think anything of it (unless they seemed otherwise creepy). Although now that I think about it if you continually say "my wife" to mutual friends/other people who definitely know your wife's name, that's kinda weird.
@Four Horsemeals of the Eggporkalypse Oh yes, of course. I was definitely thinking of the latter context.
@nonvolleyball The guys I date really enjoy the term ladyfriend. I think it's cute. Me, though, I give my men nicknames and refer to them thusly thereby removing all need for a term from the conversation.
@kayjay Oooh, I LIKE swain.
I sometimes use 'partner' because we are both queer, and it IS a queer relationship, even though it looks hetero, and I feel like 'partner' queers it a little bit. I also sometimes use:
Manfriend
Manpanion
Genderfriend
Best Beloved
Beau
I think I use 'sweetie' the most, even though it's kind of sickly, because it's pretty accurate. I used to call my fuck buddy my orgasm friend.
I think I shall adopt 'gentleman caller' even though/because it makes me think of Raffles.
I get called the special ladyfriend (we enjoy using 'lady' as a descriptor as much as possible) and also 'bitter half'.
@rararuby: Seems like if you're in a good marriage, it's great to be a husband/wife. I love being Mr. Bittersweet's wife, and tell him so frequently. However, it would be weird if he always referred to me as "my wife" to friends and acquaintances.
@Four Horsemeals of the Eggporkalypse Oh my GOD I love your name. My bonemate and I try to work that into as many conversations as possible.
@Four Horsemeals of the Eggporkalypse I love the term "beau." I guess the female equivalent would be "belle?" Is that too cutesy? I am also a big fan of "gentleman caller" and "suitor." I may be a time traveling Victorian lady.
Re the "my wife" thing – when speaking to people who don't know your partner, I don't see why calling them "my wife/husband/partner/SO/fuckbuddy" is problematic. I'll usually do the "my husband, Mr Bebe, and I…" thing and then just use his first name going forward. But talking to people who know us both that would just be weird. Like when I'm talking to my sister and one of us accidentally calls our mother "My mom – I mean, your mom – I mean, our mom, I mean, Mom."
@Diana Yeah, I grew up calling my parents by their names, so I just always refer to them as 'my mum and dad', even when I'm talking to people who know their names. It's less confusing.
My boss calls his wife 'the bride'. They're older (like… 60ish?) and he usually only does it when, say, she's gone off to do something and he wants to leave. 'Where's the bride?' I really fucking hate it. They got married when she was 16, and I feel like it's really infantalising.
I am mildly curious if LW#1 has ever, well, shown her boyfriend how to get her off. With her own fingers, or with a vibrator. Has she ever masturbated to climax in front of him, I guess is what I am asking.
I ask this both as a woman who has done the teaching, and one who has greatly benefited from the lessons of women before me. Women don't come with orgasm manuals and porn is a lousy guide. And every guy who is great in bed had, at one point, one hell of a teacher.
@karion Probably because, at some point, they showed even the slightest bit of interest in how to give a lady pleasure. This guy isn't a case of "what you lack in skills you make up for in enthusiasm" – he's a selfish and inconsiderate juicebox.
@rararuby You are probably right. I just suddenly realized what was missing from the letter was any indication that he knew what he was doing.
It was a curious detail to omit, you know? "I have showed him what turns me on and what gets me off, but he never does it." I am going to venture a guess that she probably never did that. But that probably doesn't matter in the juicebox scheme of things.
@karion She's 22, they've been together for 4 years, and he's her first boyfriend. So she has probably never "gone exploring".
LW1 – Just wanted to drop two things on your, my sister.
(Backnote: I'm a theatre girl, so I tend to attract/be attracted to a certain type.)
Exhibit A: I had an AWFUL ex that I dated pretty much all through college (3 years), lost my virginity to (ARGGG!) and pulled the same shit with me. I can count on two hands the TOTAL amount of times we screwed, and it was always less than a few minutes. He didn't give a flip about getting me off. He was pretty much completely against anyone being pro-sexual relations and thought of it as something "small-minded people obsess about" (what.). An utterly pretentious dick. We fought about it aaaaall the time, and it made me feel horrible about my body, horrible for being a person with any kind of a libido, and really messed me up in the head for years regarding sexuality in general. Turns out he wasn't gay (though, like you, all my friends said he probably was), likely just asexual or had some severe intimacy issues, but now that I've been out of that relationship for years, I can finally look back and see how VERY VERY CAPITAL VERY WRONG it was for me to stay with him for so long. And how SELFISH he was to let it go on while he KNEW how frustrated it made me.
Exhibit B: My brand new amazing boyfriend is in theatre, loves costuming and makeup, ADORES kitchen gadgets, joyously skips through IKEA fantasizing about all the great stuff we're going to buy for our apartment, takes lavender-scented baths with me by candlelight while we look through the newest Williams-Sonoma catalog, etc. etc. etc.
And he goes down on me like a champion.
It's not a question of Gay vs. Straight, it's Secure vs. Insecure.
Run, girl. Run and never look back. You'll find everything you're looking for in someone else, I *promise* you.
@nelbel22 "He was pretty much completely against anyone being pro-sexual relations and thought of it as something "small-minded people obsess about" (what.)."
Oh man, I'm so glad I can look back on my version of these conversations and laugh, as I sit here looking forward to having sex that lasts longer than 7 minutes, in more than one configuration, later tonight, with my non-pretentious-douche husband who loves disco and pastel-colored pants just as much as I do.
(In my version of this story, I was very much not a virgin, and made Sex-Averse Dude have sex with me like 3 times a day. My rationale was, if it's only going to last 10 minutes, how am I supposed to meet my daily 30-minute exercise requirement? I guess in the end, I probably scarred that guy more than he scarred me.)
@nelbel22 DUDE, I read "joyously skips through IKEA," and I died a little. FROM LOVE. !! What a keeper!!!
I find letters like Letter #2 so confusing because I only ever encounter them on the Internet. I do not actually know anyone who judges their single friends for being "incomplete," or anyone who is so "RAWR! SINGLE AND PROUD" defensive that they actually interpret their friends' happiness as smugness. Both those kinds of people sound like juiceboxes, so I suppose it makes sense that they're friends with each other? I don't know, I believe these things happen, but like an ocelot, it's something I've never seen in the wild.
@NatashaMcG THANK YOU. Applause.
@NatashaMcG You know, just because no one is actually out there on the street saying "oh I think all my partnered-up friends are smug" doesn't mean that it sometimes hurts when we're talking with our friends and they are all talking about their weddings/cute things their significant others do/etc and then they turn to you and say "so what have you been up to lately?"
@NatashaMcG I think it's not so much that they think us "incomplete," as that they feel a vague pity that we can't "find someone" and are constantly looking around for that one single schlub they know and trying to push him on us (because if you're single and over 30, you must have given up all standards by now and will take anyone). I'm forever single and 35, so if you are younger, your mileage may vary.
@causedbycomma I actually don't agree with this at all. When my coupled friends talk about how they spent the weekend and bed bath and beyond/at one of their parents' houses/playing Wii, I usually become incredibly bored and later thank the Gods that I don't have to live like that. Don't get me started on weddings. When they ask me what I have been up to, I usually recount the theater, art exhibits, movies, and concerts I have been to that week (yes, sometimes ALONE!), so that's really not a problem.
@WaityKatie Haha! That's awesome. I actually feel the same way about the way my couple-y friends talk. Bores the shit out of me. Same with my friends that have children. And I am in a relationship, and I have a child.
Maybe that's the answer to all of this. Maybe no one should be allowed to talk about their children/boring married lives anymore without prior authorization. There I fixed it.
@NatashaMcG Heh. Yep. And quite the to the contrary, I know an awful lot of married women who are envious as hell of their single, freedom (and free time) having girlfriends.
The only single folks I actually pity? I pity them for character flaws so far more grave than merely being single. I pity them for the reasons they are single.
@NatashaMcG I know so so many smug coupled people. You don't know any? Seriously? None of these people will say that they judge their single friends for being incomplete, but many of them will do things all the time that show that they do so, and show their pity all the time.
@causedbycomma I'm not saying it doesn't hurt, but isn't that more your issue than your friends'? I mean, if I were your friend, I probably wouldn't ask "Oh, what did YOU do?" in some kind of dismissive tone, I would be like "How's your dog/cat? How was (your hobby) this week? Is work still driving you crazy?" But if relaying my happiness in a neutral, non-schmoopy way (i.e. just talking about what I did this week) is upsetting, I don't think that makes me an asshole, you know?
@kayjay I will sign that petition!
@NatashaMcG I don't think anyone ever said to me that I was an "incomplete" person or anything. I think the thing that killed me was when people started telling me about their aunts and such who had chosen to be single and how awesome they were. They meant well but apparently by having been single for a few years and approaching 30, it was suddenly taken as a LIFE CHOICE rather than the thing it was- the part of my otherwise awesome life that terrified/frustrated the hell out of me.
That and the cookware that my mom bought me for Christmas "because I needed nice kitchen stuff and usually you get that at weddings." It was a joke but damn- that stung.
@WaityKatie Oh man, I used to love theatre and art exhibits, but then I got a boyfriend and they BANNED ME from going! I'm so sad now, spending all my time at Bed, Bath and Beyond, playing video games.
In all seriousness, you're right, I am younger (25) so maybe that has something to do with it. I really hope I don't meet more of these people as I get older. God, I would never dream of considering my single friends "incomplete." As Stephanie Tanner would say, how RUDE.
@thebestjasmine I really don't. I honestly don't know anyone who pities the happily single. Why would they? They're HAPPY. I feel bad for my single friends who don't want to be single, but I don't think wanting someone to be happy is the same thing as judging? Another commenter said that this might have something to do with my age, though. I'm 25 and all my friends are between 24 and 30.
@thebestjasmine @NatashaMcG i got a man now, but i was extremely single for like the first 32 years of my life, still feel like a spinster at heart, and have to say that i *have* seen this.
it is usually subtle, but it's there … the jokes about how much you get around … the questions about whether you will ever settle down … the conversations about what you're doing "right" and "wrong" in order to find someone … the assumption that you are automatically available for any and all requests someone would like to make of you because what ELSE could you be doing because obviously anything a single lady does on her own has very little value.
honestly, i didn't realize what was happening until i hooked up with my fella and noticed the new legitimacy i got from being coupled. finally i have an acceptable reason to not want to do everything everyone asks me to do — because i have someone to go home to. because if you don't have anyone to go home to, then why even bother going home, right? just go take care of everyone in the world who needs help, because everyone else has a FAMILY and is BUSY.
it's awful, and it's real.
@NatashaMcG You may not know anyone who says that they pity the happily single, but I bet if you talked to those happy single people, you would find that some of those people that you know have said pitying things to them all the time. Like "Oh, you didn't have anyone to go with you?" when talking about going somewhere alone, or "When are we going to find you a boyfriend?" etc. etc. It happens ALL the time. I mean, there is a reason that the term "smug married" from Bridget Jones was a thing.
@NatashaMcG Haha, the sad part is, I think a lot of coupled people actually do think they are banned from going to shows and events once they partner off. Well, mostly once they get married. So many friends have dropped off the radar because they can't leave the house after dark anymore, or can't ever do anything without their significant others. I have married friends who aren't that way, but sad to say, they are in the minority. Sometimes I suspect that the boring marrieds secretly want to hook me up with someone only so I can join their club of never going anywhere and watching tv every night and they won't feel bad anymore about having become so freakin lame.
@H.E. Ladypants Don't look a gift of nice kitchenware in the mouth, is what I say! I'm thinking about buying myself a super expensive cake to celebrate 35 years of not marrying the wrong person, and then forcing my friends to come watch me eat it and take pictures of me. Wrong?
@H.E. Ladypants Well there is a difference between voluntary and involuntary singleness. I would imagine that like all things, you kind of have to take the person's lead. Like, if someone is all "I am single and loving it! I don't have to answer to anyone, and I can flirt with/fuck whoever I want! I want this forever!" I would be like, "Yes, you go girl, I have this awesome aunt, etc." If my friend was like, "Man, I wish I could find someone, but otherwise I'm cool," I would say, "You will! It sucks that you have to wait, but you're amazing and you will find someone. Now tell me about your cat/dog/hobby/job." This all seems like Friendship 101, though.
Moms are genius at those jokes that just WOUND, aren't they?
@madge After I ended up in a serious relationship with my beau I suddenly noticed all that, too. The way that wanting to spend time/go home suddenly seems reasonable. The way that certain (coupled) friends seem more comfortable spending a couple. Going to formal events suddenly becomes a lot more comfortable.
Some of it is understandable, some of it is societal, some of it is just silly assumptions other people make. It adds up, though, as you get older.
I have a 40 year old lady friend in finance and she is just screwed. She is always the one who has to stay late, who doesn't get special dispensations, and who is imposed on. Everyone else has spouses and families! Her time, on the other hand, is disposable.
@karion See, that's exactly what I'm talking about – it's like "she's single THERE MUST BE SOMETHING WRONG WITH HERRRRRR" when no, maybe not, or maybe there is, but I don't think any of my single friends have serious character flaws, and I'd hate to think my partnered friends are out there trying to find those flaws we must all have…
@NatashaMcG But it's the "you'll find someone" comments that are so condescending and infuriating. Because it implies that all awesome people "find someone," and therefore if you don't (which is something out of our control), you are QED not awesome. Also, the fact that a person enjoys doing something now doesn't preclude someday wanting to do someone else. I'm happy-ish with my life and there are lots of things I enjoy doing, but of course I would love to find someone fantastic to do those things with. I don't know if that will happen, so I enjoy life on its own terms. Does that make me a Scary Sadshaw? I don't think so. Does that make me a Crazy Spinster Aunt who never wants to have sex again? Not either. It's complicated. I'm single voluntarily, because I prefer to be single than dating someone I'm not attracted to or who treats me like interchangeable crap (between those two I pretty much have described my past relationships), but does that mean I'm not open to finding someone who is unlike all those others? Of course not. Does that mean I want to date your short, overweight semi-autistic cousin? Not really.
@causedbycomma Exactly, because all married people are flawlessly awesome.
@WaityKatie FWIW I am coupled not married, but I do not get the joined-at-the-hip thing. I LOVE my individual nights out (or in, I am a bit of a homebody so friend + DVD + wine is a good formula for me), and when my boyfriend and I go to a party, we get in the door and go "Okay darling, see you sometime after midnight" and go MINGLE. Don't give in to the boring marrieds!
@NatashaMcG 'I've never even seen an ocelot! Holy shit, you guys! Look at his little spots! Look at his tufted ears!'
@NatashaMcG Believe me, I know all these things and I have to take pains to say that many of the people who said such things were actually trying very hard to be good friends and I don't bear anyone any ill-will. Just there are certain silent pressures that grow and that people are not perfect in their communicating. Some people will be lucky enough to escape/not care about all of it. Some are made of slightly softer, less slippery stuff and will feel a sting. At a single 25, I felt none of it. At 28, I started to relate. (Milage for individuals will obviously vary.)
Sometimes being single sucks! Sometimes being coupled sucks! Sometimes they're both great! Life is complicated and circumstances vary, sometimes even day to day!
@WaityKatie Oh hell yes, buy the cake. There is no wrong reason to have cake. And I didn't begrudge my mom a second for buying me nice kitchenware. Of course, I'd gladly sit through half an hour with the Spanish Inquisition if it got me a full set of Le Crueset bakeware.
@WaityKatie Yes, the "you'll find someone" comments are the worst. As are married people pitying single people for their character flaws — pretty sure that a lot of married people have character flaws too.
@WaityKatie How did you know about Cousin Bill?!?!?
I assume you're referring to my reply to H.E. Ladypants with the "you'll find someone"? That was a very off-the-cuff statement that I was using to differentiate between how you respond to the happily versus unhappily single (which can be the same person at different points in their life, and a friend's response should adjust accordingly). I'm not talking about "you're awesome, you'll find someone" as an out-of-the-blue comment or even a general attitude, but as a specific response to a complaint/vent. Like, "Oh man, I'm so sad that I'm single!" "Well, you're a good person but not all good people meet someone they love and can be in a relationship with. It's entirely likely you'll always be alone, so you should probably make your peace with that!" You CAN say that and maybe there are situations where you should, but I think a general reinforcement of how great you think the person is, combined with a little cheerleadering and then a re-direct is usually a better option. There are only so many times you can say, "Yeah, that sucks."
I don't know, I'm starting to think that I don't approach these things the way most people do. I don't set friends up and I don't really talk to my friends about their romantic statuses unless they bring it up.
@thebestjasmine Like I said, I believe it exists, I am just glad I have never encountered it in person (as a recipient or bystander).
@melis That is EXACTLY how I would respond if ever I got to live that particular dream.
@melis: I would like to watch TV with you. Does Saturday morning work for you? I'll make waffles and coffee.
@laurel You don't even need to give me your address, because I'm already under your couch, waiting.
Seriously though, do give me your address and I'll totally show up.
@melis: 'Sorry about the dust-tumbleweeds under the couch. Do you take cream and sugar with your coffee?
@NatashaMcG Possibly that is because, in a world where in groups of friends there always seems to end up to be just one or two singles in a bunch of couples, as always, it would be rude for singletons to say 'It's super boring when you talk about all that couple stuff/your constant retelling of the great weekend you had with your husband makes me want to cry when I remember I have not even met someone I liked for 27 months, can we talk about something we're both interested in so I can actually contribute to the conversation?'. However, the internet is a magical place where you can vent to other singletons…
@sevanetta I feel like what I have learned from this thread is that the majority of people are boring and I have just had the good fortune not to know them.
@sevanetta See, I have this thing where I have always basically been a grandma – my idea of a great friday night is going home to sit in my pyjamas with my cat and knit and drink wine, with or without my sweetie. So I definitely do the not going out after dark thing, but I did that anyway. Although I DO find that I get invited to less things during the week (I only see my partner on weekends) which is a bit irritating – like if I can't go with him, I won't want to?
And I have always been interested in 'boring coupley' stuff to some degree – domestic stuff, you know? But for instance, when this one friend talks about her baby, I want to stab myself in my own face. It's not that I'm anti-babies. Most of my friends have babies! It's just that I don't have one, and so I can't contribute to that conversation. It's the same with my other friend who likes photography. Also, I don't care about your baby, actually. I care about how YOU FEEL about your baby, because you are my friend and I care about you. But I don't care that your baby likes carrots. If that makes me a bad person, then so be it.
The point is, talk about things that everyone is interested it. Otherwise, it's rude.
Also, absolutely do the cake thing. I think that is a lovely idea. I wish there were more celebrations for those kinds of things.
@Craftastrophies I agree. If someone constantly wants to talk about, say, her cat, that would be viewed as weird, rude, and boring. Yet, if you replace "cat" with "baby," suddenly everyone has to gather around and listen raptly, because, A BABY!!! It makes me miss the days when everyone just had kids automatically, so it was no big deal and nobody felt the need to obsess over it. Less choice, but maybe healthier for society?
@NatashaMcG For what it's worth, I agree with all the comments you've made. I keep thinking, "Thank God my friends aren't the kinds of assholes described in this thread."
LW1: Maybe, maybe not? I also dated this exact guy exactly! (+ ladyparts "look like canned hams" though I was reassured that mine "didn't taste as gross as the last time" he attempted oral, some 3 relationships ago, + history of dating queer androgynes and/or hyperaggressive nerdgirls). And suspected he was gay pretty much the whole time. But that was years ago, and if he likes boys he's doing a pretty good job of repressing it.
It was easier to think that than to accept he's just a narcissistic douchebag who doesn't like anybody, though.
Last I heard he was really getting into crossdressing. You know, to show how evolved he is.
Ugh I'm reminded so much of how yesterday I was eating lunch with some people I actually like until this one asshole invited himself into the group and started spouting some bullshit about how he was totally convinced some faculty member was gay because he wore an earring and made some excessive hand-wavy gestures this one time. I mean like, putting aside "Who gives a flying fuck if Mr. X is gay", it really bugs me when people throw out these arbitrary stereotypes to come to Is He or Isn't He conclusions.
@cosmia My dad's group of work friends did this about a new employee, once. Dad waited for a lull in the conversation, asked the ringleader if his wife was into anal sex, and sheepishly explained he thought it was time to talk about everyone's sexual preference.
Also, I don't even understand the point of LW2's question. You don't get to complain about gay marriage.
@cosmia "Everybody is getting gay married but meeeeee!" is the point.
@cosmia She doesn't want to get married and nobody being allowed to get married made it way easier for her to not get married and not feel bad about it. So basically, she can egg up and push back against the expectation that she get married just because she can.
@wharrgarbl This! This exactly.
@cosmia I think I get what she was going for. One of the awesome things about being queer, is that you have suddenly stepped outside of the rules that society has tried to shove down your throat. You may have only been planning to step outside of the rules on that one count of who you have sex with, but suddenly it brings everything else into question. Monogamy? Having children? Gender identity and roles? Suddenly there is all this freedom to define our lives as we see fit, not by what the patriarchy forces on us. But as gayness gains acceptance, as it becomes more mainstream, while it is certainly great, it could also be a challenge to the very "queerness" that has always been a part of the gay community. I read a whole book on this topic – "The Trouble with Normal" by Michael Warner. I don't know how much I agree with this view, but I think there are some interesting points (that I am probably not articulating that clearly).
LR1: "He is a Giant Costco Variety Pack of juiceboxes." DEAD ON. get away from him. if he can't be bothered to make your downtown happy, let him go. you can buy your own snacks at that time of the month.
Made it to point #1 for LW1–'He has no interest in me sexually.' Woman, who cares WHAT the hell he is–if you're into sex and you're with someone who won't happily engage in it with you, that's a damaging situation and you need to leave.
And for LW#3, it's been a year and if she's still not that into dining at your Y, something is going to have to give. I know it's not a dealbreaker for everyone, but it is for some (me) and if it is for you, you'll wind up getting it somewhere else at some point.
I'm pretty sure LW2 is happy for her friends, queer chick. Why couldn't you have helpfully offered advice on how to deal with single-ness pressure? Or if you don't think it relates enough to your column, not have answered it at all? Spending the time to put this girl in her place was completely useless and not helpful for anybody. You probably should have focused more on the line: "The queermo in me is ecstatic!". Because I'm pretty sure she put it there for a reason (being that you wouldn't react in exactly the way you did). ANGER
@kylie I agree, it smacked a bit of bridezillas accusing everyone who isn't fascinated by the minutiae of placecard design of being JEALOUS UGLY OLD SPINSTERS who want to be the bride themselves! Singles are expected to contort ourselves into various shapes to support the personal choices of marrieds, but it never goes the other way, not even a tiny bit. It's always "poor you, for not being exactly like me! Wonderful me!!!"
@WaityKatie I just feel inclined to remark, unrelated to your comment, that we have *almost* the same hairpin name (handle?). So, hi, other waity!
@WaityKatie If I were LW2, it would be "I campaigned for gay marriage with the understanding that it wouldn't be mandatory" from hell to breakfast. Much beyond that, though, this is a single-lady question, not a queer-lady question. She was just exempted from some of the pressure before gay marriage became a thing that could be done due to having a socially-accepted excuse for being unmarried. So the answer is pretty much "more feminism" not "less gay marriage" or "sex-communism for everyone." (Okay, the answer may be "sex-communism for everyone," but that's more of a Sex-Communism for Everyone 2032 kind of thing than a workable-right-now kind of thing.)
@wharrgarbl Sex-Communism for Everyone is always the answer!
@waitykaitie Hey, I just noticed that as well, and was hoping you didn't think I ripped off your handle! Hello.
@WaityKatie re: Bridezillas and OMG YUOR JALOUS OF ME, rest assured: the impendingly married really don't care how you feel. My wedding was about my wife and me and having a party. Beyond working out a seating arrangement, we cared ZERO whether you came alone or with a SO as long as we got a heads-up.
@lbf That's nice for you. Not everyone is so laid back about it, unfortunately. The unmarrieds really don't care about your wedding either, unless there is going to be free alcohol.
@WaityKatie I am totally looking forward to candidates of the future being able to answer proudly that they're fragainst it.
@WaityKatie I want to hug you right now.
@WaityKatie There was free booze! Twice! And food. And no olds. I think the takeaway is: don't put too much weight on perceived slights, most of us are too self-centered to truly give a shit.
The same is true about the universe in general. The meaninglessness and ultimate vanity of it all, I <3 it. Teen heartthrob Jens Lekman said it best after getting his heart broken for the millionth time: "When love turns its back on you it's nice to know there's a world out there that doesn't give a shit about your problems."
@lbf Wait…twice? I would come to your wedding(s). Unfortunately the ones I have been to have been cash bar, families, olds, and being one of three (count 'em, three!) single people in a gathering of 100+ people. But, I will make that sacrifice for a good friend. I now habitually decline invitations from less-good friends, because, I'm old and my time on this planet is limited and precious.
@WaityKatie No one around me's getting married! I never get invited anyway! I HAVE FEELINGS ABOUT THIS.
In France, the State doesn't delegate marrying people to anyone, so you gotta got to city hall before you do anything else; that was family-only and we hosted a no-guestlist party at our regular bar that evening (champagne, food from the Indian place round the corner, and we DJ'd ourselves). Then we had a "wedding-like" weekend at my parents' house, where we'd have incorporated a religious wedding if we weren't hopeless unbelievers. Sit-down dinner, toasts, open bar, throwing people in the swimming pool, the works.
We were the meaning of the parties, but they were still parties. We didn't want a party we wouldn't have liked as guests. [/mememe]
@kylie YES
Lindsay Miller you hammered all the nails right on their heads.
I dated a hetero version of #1 and trust me, in the end it does not matter if your boyfriend is closeted or not. An asshole is an asshole.
Partnerships should build you up and inspire you. Anyone who consistently masks control with "rescuing" leaves you feeling hurt, confused, alone, and unsure of all of your wonderful strengths.
You can't say the wrong thing to the right person…in bed.
Wow, Lindsay, I am really appalled by your response to LW#2. Clearly, we were both under the false impression that this was an advice column, not WWF Smackdown. The only piece of "advice" you offered this person was to "stop feeling what you're feeling," which is pretty much next to impossible for anyone. We feel what we feel, and it is what it is. What matters is how we respond to those feelings, and this person took a chance by reaching out to you. Instead of trying to understand where this person is coming from and offering advice accordingly, you swiftly brought down your hammer of coupled-privilege. Ouch.
There is certainly a tone of frustration in this letter, but if you can look past that it's clear to me that this person is hurting and confused. Granted, the issue she brings up is more of a single-person problem than a queer-person problem, but the point she's making is that being gay used to be a valid excuse to not being married (even if you're coupled, the gay community has/had other ways of recognizing relationships), and now that it's not, there's a whole set of societal pressures she wasn't used to dealing with that are hitting her over the head. You haven't been engaged your whole life, Lindsay, don't you remember those days of loneliness that came and went?
You're right, unless you're lucky enough to live in one of six places in this country where gays can legally marry, you don't have access to the full range of marriage benefits that heterosexual couples do. But don't kid yourself by acting like you don't have access to any privileges as part of a couple.
Consider this: There are certain events and parties I'm simply not invited to because I don't have a +1 to bring along. My partnered friends *do* have less time for me than they used to. Granted, when a relationship is new and you're drowning in infatuation I get that your brain is simply not thinking about anything else, but after you've been together for a decade, what's the excuse? My coupled friends have the luxury of being able to, say, quit their job because of a morale issue since they have a partner to fall back on (and yes, I have several friends who've done just this). I'll admit it, I'm jealous. There are days I want to just walk right out the front door, but if I don't work, I don't eat, end of story. I don't have that financial, or emotional, support waiting for me at home. I don't get to share the chores, or the bills, or the events of my day, let alone my bed, with anyone. And how about pets? This may sound silly, but if you're married and have two cats, it's a cute lil family. If you're single and have two cats, you have already purchased yourself a one-way ticket to crazy-spinster-cat-lady-town. And this isn't even to mention partner benefits, which many companies offer regardless of whether or not your state recognizes same-sex marriages.
I really don't think LW#2's point in referencing SATC is that she's Carrie and "omg, shoes!" I think she was referencing the jist of that episode, which is that after you turn 21, the only life events that are publicly celebrated are reserved for couples– bachelorette parties, weddings, baby showers, anniversaries, etc. If you're single, you just keep getting older, and if you were, say, to throw a party celebrating a promotion, I'm certain there would be people there thinking how sad it is that you have a career instead of a family. Even just reading some of the responses here, it's clear single people are thought of as defective on some level. Saying, "I don't pity people for being single, I pity them for the reasons they're single" still implies that there's some character flaw within them that makes them unlovable. You know what? Not only do I NOT believe that anyone is unlovable, but most of the time someone is single simply because they haven't found the right person yet. That's not a character flaw, it's just the truth. To say that there MUST be some reason, in the form of some glaring personal defect, that said person is single, is really quiet privileged, to say the least.
I'm really just sad, Lindsay. This person was looking for some compassion, and instead of taking yourself outside of your own comfort zone, i.e. your perspective as an engaged person, to attempt to understand where she was coming from, you just smacked her down. I mean, Jesus, you couldn't even be moved to just BELIEVE the things she said, as indicated by your response of "IF people really are asking you when you're getting married…" Here's my advice to you: Give people the benefit of the doubt now and then, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
@Natalie Rose Apar@facebook Thankyou for articulating it all so well. Especially the parts about no work = no eat and how there's no :emotional: support when you go home at the end of the day. It does my head in. One of my biggest stresses at the moment is wondering if my contract will be renewed for next year and what I will do if it isn't. A married friend said 'Oh I guess I never worry about that stuff, my husband and I just trade off if that happens you know? … You'll find something!!!'.
And if you're doing online dating you have to somehow talk about it all in an upbeat way and you can't just offload to someone a little. Gahhhh coupled privilege gahhhh.
@sevanetta No problem! It's nice to know my over-thinking pays off sometimes! And looks like LW#2 isn't the only person who's noticed there's suddenly pressure to get "gay married:" http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/25/living/marriage-arce/index.html