Stretch Marks, Settling, and Vasectomies
I've got questions about stretch marks. I ate a lot of feelings in my teenage years, and at 20, I'm covered in stretch marks and overweight. I'm planning on losing the weight, but I don't know what to do about the marks. I know everyone has some, but I have much more than is normal. They climb up my stomach, go across my back on either side, cover half my arms. Because of my weight and emotional issues, I've never been in a relationship or even kissed anyone.
When I lose the weight, I hope to approach normal life, which includes relationships or at least fooling around. The marks are very visible and tangible, and I don't know how to handle any kind of fun naked time with the skin I'm in. What do you do when you're uncomfortable with almost all of your skin, and you think other people might be, too? I think if I could be comfortable with myself and the marks, I could handle other people's reactions better, but I don't know. Help me, A Lady!
You keep using the word “normal” in a way that's troubling, because it really shows how “un-normal” you feel. You don't need to have any particular kind of body to be “normal” (and I think you mean “normal” more or less interchangeably with “fuckable” here), my dear, and any man or woman worth sleeping with knows that real people are covered in scars and marks and moles and stray hairs and pimples and random “what-do-you-think-this-is-honey-because-it-itches” patches. Becoming comfortable with your own body is so, so hard, and it's a lifelong process. There's never a moment where you're like, “Oh dip! I just completed all the credits for my body-acceptance diploma!” My best friend jokes that it's a good thing I knew I was supposed to have nipples or I would have picked mine off by now; I understand insecurity. And I feel confident that if you could magically erase your stretch marks you would find something else to feel crappy about, because that's how the body loathing trap works. It makes you never completely in the present experiencing your life. It makes your world become really small, and minor things start taking on too much meaning. Try to step outside of that small space where you feel like all anyone will notice about you is whatever you're currently loathing about yourself. And remind yourself as often as you need to that this IS normal life, and you don't have to earn permission to start living it.
Do you think I'm being too picky? I'm pushing 30 and have been wanting a committed awesome dude (ideally, with kids on the horizon) for at least four years. In that time, I've jealously watched many friends marry and start what I see as their adult lives. Meanwhile I moved to this town for grad school at 27, suffered through a ton of too-immature, too-young grad school dudes for two years, as well as the loneliest period of my life. Six months ago, I finally settled on dating a sweet guy who works at a grocery store. I'm stressing the verb "settled," because I'm worried that's what I'm doing. I love his company, his quick, silly wit makes me laugh all the time, he's genuinely interested in most of the things I'm into, and we have rad sex.
But he smokes too much pot, never went to college, doesn't read books, and doesn't seem to be motivated to do more with his life than work at a grocery store. Most of our fights revolve around him waking and baking (I think it's fun every once in awhile, but depressing otherwise) or needing a hit before bed, but I think the reason I resent his weed consumption is more deep-seated. When we're with my friends, I often cringe when he opens his mouth because I'm worried something naive or dumb will come out. He never has any money, which I don't really care about, but it limits our recreational options and stresses him out, because he's constantly worried he's "not good enough for me." Sometimes I worry that I'm dating a classic loser. Then I feel like an elitist asshole. I didn't like dating grad school dudes because they were uniformly in love with their own egos and treated me poorly, while this dude is hardworking, refreshingly down-to-earth, pretty much convinced I hung the moon, and has helped me grow in important ways (he basically told me I drink too much, and I do! And I'm an asshole when I do! And now I drink less!). He has also promised to cut back on the weed, and I believe that he will.
Basically, I am worried that I'm using him for companionship, and I don't see us working long-term, and at this point in my life, I can't help but think long-term when I'm dating someone. But then I worry I'm putting too much on "long-term," and also just paying too much attention to my overachieving, well-educated friends who are marrying similar people and having babies! And when I think about breaking up with him, it makes me very sad, I know I'd miss him terribly, and since we don't have any serious problems except my "maybe he's ultimately not on my life-experience level, maybe he's not enough of a reader, will my friends think he's stupid" doubts, I don't know if I should!
Maybe I just need to change my jerky mindset? Or embrace being single until I find someone who's better suited to me? I should also mention that he's 27, so maybe needs some time to figure out his life, but I don't know if I A) want to stick along for that ride, and B) want to be the Svengali who pushes him to go to college and/or find a career. I used to like that he worked at a co-op and didn't go to college, and now I sometimes resent explaining things to him. But I hate feeling like a snob who doesn't appreciate his other awesome gifts. Help?
I totally understand what you're going through. While in grad school I, too, dated a guy I was embarrassed to bring around my academic friends. I, too, cringed when he opened his mouth. And then I realized I was being a fucking asshole, that it was unkind to keep dating someone I resented and/or thought I was too good for and/or was embarrassed of, and that he deserved to be with someone who appreciated him. In a nutshell, that I wasn't doing him a favor by dating him.
You can't help what you want, but it doesn't sound like you've figured out just what that is yet. Your letter reads as coming from a place of insecurity, inside a person who spends a lot of time worried about “fitting in” and adhering to a specific timetable. There's a curious narcissism to feeling unworthy of acceptance; I've heard it referred to as feeling like “the piece of shit at the center of the universe.” What I'm trying to get at is nobody really cares that much what you do or how long it takes you to do it or who you do it with; they're too busy worrying about their own life. Real friends don't care who you date so long as that person is good to you and makes you happy. What will make you happy? It might not be what will make you feel successful or like you've proved yourself.
You need to assume the person he is right now is for the most part the person he'll be in the long run. Can you see yourself raising the kids you want with a stoner-y underachiever who thinks you hung the moon? Are you OK with being the breadwinner? Can you get over wishing he was more impressive on paper? Can you stop caring if other people think he's a “classic loser”? If the answer is no, that's totally OK — we all have a whole bunch of reasons we date who we date — but you need to cut him loose so you both can have a shot at finding more mutually respectful relationships.
Side note: Pleeeeaaase quit being jealous of your friends for getting married and having babies. This isn't a contest, and it's not like relationships stop being confusing and hard and a whole lot of work the moment rings (not to mention kids) get involved! You don't have to prove yourself to anyone except yourself! I'm repeating myself, but this is a journey. There's no finish line in life except death.
I've got a problem. I dated the most amazing man for the past seven months. He is kind, respectful, honest and we click on every level possible, including the most amazing sex of my life. I thought I had finally met the man I was going to marry. One problem: he doesn't want any more children (he has two) and I cannot imagine my life without ever having one. He had a vasectomy a few years ago and we discussed if we stayed together the option of it being reversed. Well, last week he finally told me that he loved me more than anything, but he would rather be shot in the head than have another kid. I was crushed and I had to end things. I mean, what's the point? He's not changing my mind and I'm not changing his. We still love and care for each other very much and being without him is horrible. I know he feels the same. Weirdest break up of my life. There was no yelling or throwing of things, which only made it worse.
Last night, we somehow started texting and concocted a plan to remain friends and have sex. I know I'm not ready for a relationship right now with anyone new, and I know he isn't either, and we still like each other very much. Seems like the perfect plan, but something in me is saying NO. I need some advice as to why this is bad, or some validation that it will be OK. Is this the making of a horribly unhealthy relationship, or can two people in this situation do this?
I read this and I felt weird because I've never had a “yelling and breaking of stuff” kind of breakup. I think all breakups are weird, though, in that they force us to acknowledge and talk about hard things.
I don't know that I can give you a firm yes or no answer here. I think it's clear that you both have deep feelings for each other. If you actually want to be broken up I don't think you should sleep together, because if two people who love each other are sleeping together and aren't dating other people how are they broken up at all? If you really want to get over this person and find someone new (and you might never find someone you like as much who does want to have kids, fyi — these are the weird compromises you have to make when you have clearcut future goals and plans) you shouldn't be sleeping with him. The less oxytocin this man makes surge through your veins, the easier it will be to move on.
Good for you for listening to him, by the way. A lot of people think they can change their partners' minds on these things and then get really angry when it's five years later and they haven't. I'm sorry you're going through this; it sounds really tough.
Previously: Helping the Heartbroken and Asking for Things.
A Lady is one of several rotating ladies who know everything. Do you have any questions for A Lady?
Photo by JEO, via Shutterstock
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I lost a chunk of weight a few years ago and was happier in my body, partially because I made a positive change but also because I realized that there are some things I'll never be able to change, like cellulite or stretch marks or cankles. I think getting to the "I don't give a fuck if somebody hates looking at me at the beach" stage was as much of a landmark as losing weight or running a race.
@Claire Zulkey Oh man, if they offered cankle surgery, I'd hand over my credit card in a hot second! But they don't so I don't worry about it too much.
Also, I can say that I learned something from my 20s which is this: Live your life NOW. Don't say to your self, "As soon as I do (fill in the blank), my life can finally start." Live the life you want to live now, no matter what you look like, or what your current job is. If you want to kiss a guy, go out and meet a guy this weekend! Don't wait!
Oh man, last lady. My heart breaks for you. I'm so sorry that love wasn't enough but good for you (to both of you actually) for realizing that. Don't sleep with him though. No way will that end well.
@Kitty It's true. It'll be near impossible to open yourself up and meet new people (maybe someone just as awesome who wants kids) if you're too busy thinking about another.
@Kitty : Seconded. Er, thirded. Do not sleep with him as an Interim Thing.
But I will say this :
Why do you want kids?
No, really — why? Does it feel like a biological thing? Have you ALWAYS wanted kids of your own? I say this as someone who has never, ever fixated on "omg must produce children" – aside from one brief period with one particular bf, it never even registered as a viable option. Never been interested, not my thing, and the older I get the less My Thing it seems. If the thought of never having biological children results in gut-clenching anxiety and unmitigated dismay, okay — but still, examine that. I'm just saying, don't ditch an otherwise great guy over something that… well, something that to a lot of people in long-term relationships is unnecessary, superfluous, irrelevant.
But yeah — if serious thought about the Kids issue still yields "holy shit must have children" then you're not doing yourself any — ANY — favors by maintaining a relationship with this guy. Sometimes you really do have to fish or cut bait.
@collier it drives childfree people insane when the breeders try to convince them they really want kids. it's just as annoying in reverse. if she wants kids, she wants kids–no "great guy" will make up for that regret.
Uhhhhhg. In February, I broke my ankle and quit smoking. I gained a chunk of weight and now have bright red stretch marks across my belly.
It doesn't bother me because THEY FADE! The ones on my boobs and muffin top aren't noticeable unless you're in the brightest light with perfect vision. So. Stay in motion and keep the lights off. Or just practice to shrug and say effortlessly, "The human body is amazing, no?"
@Anne since college I get them on my thighs with even the slightest weight gain. Like…3 pounds, anything, boom, purpley marks. But then they turn silver and fade on in nicely.
Lady One, there was an episode of project runway way back in the early days where the model's dress was too short and the camera sort of zoomed in on it, and you could see she had cellulite. She was probably a size minus zero, and she worked professionally as a pretty person, and even so, her skin wasn't perfect, I thought, "oh no! When that model sees that shot, she's probably going to feel bad. How terrible." You know Cindy Crawford once said, "I wish I looked like Cindy Crawford." Waiting to live your life until your body is perfect is a really good way to put off figuring out how you want to live your life.
@E Thank you, E! Exactly what I wanted to say! Last week, I helped put a person close to me in a rehab center for a severe eating disorder. She is semi-famous and lauded for being particularly beautiful (if I revealed any more details, y'all might know who she is…). In helping her get help, I couldn't help but think about the emotional, physical, and psychological cost of our standard of "beauty". Also, I wish people could understand that the grass is not always greener on the other side. There is no substitute for self-acceptance and self-love….everybody, I mean, EVERYBODY has their shit to deal with….
@Anne: A girlfriend of mine who (BTW, LW1!) has a naturally slim/athletic physique has some stretch marks across her very lovely ass and thighs about which she is self-conscious. She's never been overweight – some skin just does this! Anyway, she was dating a boy and after the second or third time they hooked up, he mentioned something about her 'tiger stripes,' and she was mortified. I thought it was kind of great, actually, because it was delivered with total affection and, yup, tiger stripes are cool!
I've got no tiger stripes myself, but they would not be unexpected if I have a baby, so spend my time agonizing over my cellulite instead. And what a waste of fucking time that is, because that is just how my skin adheres to my muscle and fat and there is fuck all to do about it. So while I've never had a dude or lady rhapsodize about my cottage cheese, I've certainly never been kicked out of bed for it. In fact, I am much more likely to garner praise for a juicy, smackable ass, and keep my insecurities to myself for the most part.
Listen, you don't have to love this part of your body. You're not required to. But you do need to focus on what you LIKE about yourself, and when you're feeling self-conscious, just think, but DAMN my tits are fine or my hair is luscious or my skin is soft. And that everyone, EVERYONE, feels exactly the same way. The more you love up what you consider your assets, the better you'll feel, because they way overshine the things you're not crazy about.
@Tailfeather Well the only reason women get cellulite is because we have much thinner skin than men. It kind of doesn't really have anything to do with how fat you are. But that's what makes it so soft! So, you win some you lose some I suppose.
@Tailfeather Omg my boyf calls them tiger stripes too! Maybe this is just something nice boyfriends do. It could also be a kind of subculture (are there forums?), or just the obvious thing to compare them to.
@Tailfeather I find stretchmarks extremely adorable, (and also refer to them as tigerstripes!) because, in my mind, human skin looks sort of plain without freckling, mottling, scarring, burns, or STRIPES. The addition of any of these are so exotic and defining and… well it's hard to articulate, but really hot.
Point being that no one loves only the stereotypical beauty! Our creative minds, in addition to our past experiences, in addition to how things are presented to us, create fetishes and appreciation for every aspect of the human body. And like A Dude has said so many times before, you gotta own it.
@Anne Maybe LW1 isn't white, in which case her stretch marks may show up against her dark skin even after they fade — mine do! But even though my brown ass is covered with white stretch marks, I still think I look pretty hot, and so should LW1.
@Tailfeather Yes! Tiger stripes! I have stretch marks and while I'm generally an insecure mess, I absolutely love them. Except that with my silver stripes and my pasty-white skin, I think of myself as more of a MOON CAT.
LW#1, I know it's not that easy, but you should totally try to start thinking of yourself as a MOON CAT (or whatever pigmentation-specific made-up cat would apply).
@NatashaMcG Err, and that was meant to be actual silly lightheartedness because everyone else has tackled the serious, tough stuff. I REALLY do know it's not that easy.
@Tailfeather Tiger stripes, I like it! After the birth of my daughter Ruby, I was feeling mildly distraught at the stretch marks over my once lovely tummy. I pointed them out to my husband, and he looked at them reverentially and said "they are your Ruby tattoos". It just made me think a lot about the perspective we take to our perceived flaws. Like, I am a different person than I was pre-children, and it would be weird for my body not to have a mark of everything I have gone through, like a coming of age marking.
@Anne I have nothing more to add here, except to say that each and every one of you made me cry in the best, most therapeutic kind of way. Thank you so very much.
@Anne: That's a really sweet point by your husband and a great way to keep perspective on things!
Oh, WTF number 2? Just like to hear yourself…type? You know the answer to this one already. Ditch him.
@JessicaLovejoy Oh man I dated this guy. Its just not that easy when you actually love them and they love you. But yes. DTMFA.
@Moxie the Maven Yea LW2 was me 8 years ago.
This Lady is the Best Lady. Not to mention her picture. But really. So SOLID in all responses.
@julia not to mention a seriously badass picture.
@julia Something about this Lady reminds me of Jolie.
@Clare
She's very clean.
@julia – Agree, she's the best.
Oh honey, do not try to remain friends and have sex with your ex. How does that change anything? Then you aren't broken up at all, it's just a break up in name only. No matter how friendly a break up is, you can't pretend it didn't exist.
Stretch marks lady, we've all got them. They fade, but they don't go away. I'm so sorry that you are so anxious about them, I wish there was something that we could say to make it better. Just know that once you get to the point where you don't care if people see X part of your body, it makes life so much easier than obsessing about covering it up. It is hard to get there, but very very worth it.
@thebestjasmine Yes, we seriously all have them. I even dated a guy who had them on his flanks and I guaran-damn-tee he never once sweated those while he was naked in front of anyone.
(Flanks. What a weird word, eh?)
@vanillawaif Every guy I have ever been with who is over 6'1" (which is, um, quite a few) has had stretch marks on their hips and lower back. I think for them it was a product of growing a lot fairly quickly. To the original poster, they're really not a big deal, and I second all of the opinions to ease up on yourself. Also, red lightbulbs do wonders for smoothing things out — stretch marks, cellulite, etc. Everyone looks super-hot under red lights, which is one of the reasons they use them in strip clubs.
@thebestjasmine: Ha. Came to post this; I have some righteous stretch marks on my flanks, closer to the sides of my butt. My growth spurt happened later on so I wouldn't be surprised to know that they came from that.
@vanillawaif Although, I think we often don't realize that guys worry about this stuff too, and for me, hearing someone else articulate their insecurities about a body that I think is amazing just reinforces how silly/ in our heads these thoughts are. Seriously, cause I just slept with a guy last night (who I only know because he works at my local bar, but who I always thought was pretty hot) and he felt the need to explain that he had lost a lot of weight after highschool and was incredibly self conscious about the stretch marks he had. Meanwhile, I am thinking that this guy is gorgeous, and why is he so into me, the short, nerdy girl with a slightly squidgy stomach. So we all just need to get over our shit, because there are people out there who think we are awesome just the way we are (almost threw up writing that because it so cliche). Also, just generally, to everyone sharing their stories and advice on these columns, you are all brave and amazing, and it makes me glad I decided to stop lurking
@loudmouthedgirl You're totally right about that. My boyfriend is incredibly self conscious about the stretch marks on his upper arms. Stretch marks he has from working out and getting muscles.
We've all got issues about our body from one thing or another, guys and girls. The thing that kills me most is the way body issues make you feel like you're THE ONLY ONE IN THE WORLD with that set of problems. So not true!
Oh man. I think every woman I know has a story similar to LW #2. I call it the "dating down" story – where you are dating someone that, for whatever reason, you feel is kind of beneath you. Or, better said, that you are the "catch" in the relationship.
And just like my friends, the most painful breakup I ever had was with the dating down guy. He broke my heart, and rightfully so.
I never had the dating down mindset again.
@karion Have you ever felt like you're the dating down-er and the dating down-ee at the same time? That's a mindfuck for sure.
@Clare Oof. No.
Until this very moment, I didn't realize that I had, in fact, once been the dating down-ee. And I just remembered how shitty that felt for the six months that I endured it. And how it ended, spectacularly, as these situations nearly always do.
And how he has probably facebook stalked me a million times over the years, and how I have never once thought about him. Because that's how these things end – with one person hitting an almost pathological level of indifference, and the other wondering what could have been.
I want an "ask a lady" or queer chick or someone (not a dude) to have a big thing on dating down. I feel like I've done it more than once, and I wish I didn't have the urge to do it.
Lady #2, if you wait long enough, your friends will start getting divorced, and then you are one up on them!
…I'm just saying.
@Lily Rowan YES.
@Lily Rowan Yes, this is so true! I'm 31, and starting to see the first wave of divorce among my friends who married in their 20s.
@Lily Rowan Ha! Sad but so true…
@Lily Rowan
Day-um! THAT'S perspective.
and…
zing!
@Flackette hell I'm 23 and already starting to see a wave of divorces from people who married 18-22. One marriage lasted less than a month.
@Lily Rowan This is how I've seen things shake out. People I know have tended to marry early, and I've learned that the shotgun marriage is just. not. stable. Honestly, I think it's just a ritual people observe to make themselves feel responsible after feeling very irresponsible.
First lady: I have some silvery stretchmarks on my hips and chest. I hadn't been in a relationship for several years and felt really paranoid about the way I looked naked, before meeting my current partner. Turned out he had stretchmarks too, more noticeable than mine! They don't bother me, and mine don't bother him. A Lady is right, everyone has imperfections.
@missbeee I love your icon.
quasi-unrelated comment: don't make the doctor giving you a vasectomy laugh. there are times for nervous humor. that is not one. ouch.
stretch marks = totally fierce tiger stripes!
I don't know where I first heard this but it was somebody's boyfriend who pegged that term and I love it.
@redheadedandcrazy I decided ages ago that my boobs were "zebra-striped" because of the stretch marks. Which is decidedly less fierce than tiger stripes, but still really great.
Racing stripes.
@redheadedandcrazy I once read that Selma Hayek's bf/husband/whoever referred to hers as "tiger stripes," which makes me feel a little bit better. She's hawt!
@one cow. oooh maybe that's where I heard it from! I love them all – tiger/zebra/racing stripes. Stretch marks are a fact of life so you may as well own it!
@redheadedandcrazy Yup, my BF calls mine "zebra stripes" and it has not slowed down our sex life at all!
@redheadedandcrazy No, no, no, no. It was me you heard it from because I totally call the ones on the sides of my ass that and I was not influenced by anyone.
LW1: seriously like, 90% of fun naked time is the naked. The other 10%, which is all you have to supply, is the intention of having fun. And if you're observably having fun then it's more or less guaranteed everyone is. The minor details of the bodies involved are pretty much redundant.
(And given the likely age of the people you'll be having said fun naked time with, they'll be devoting any spare thinking power to imagino-high-fiving themselves for having fun naked time in the first place.)
We all have stretch marks. It's just a side effect of going from being a tiny person to a grown-up sized person. We notice them in other people, but it doesn't really matter, the same way we notice moles, scars, freckles and birthmarks.
I would strongly suggest that LW#1 does not wait to "have a normal life" until after she's lost weight. If you want to start having relationships and fooling around, get started now. I realize the media and society are telling you otherwise, but fat girls date and hook up and have relationships just like "normal" people!
And speaking as someone who obsessed over her own stretch marks for quite some time – they are there. They are not going away, though they might fade. And no one I've ever been intimate with has ever said a damn word about them.
@cherrispryte The only person who has ever said anything about my stretch marks is my mother. So.
And to LW1, the best way for me of finding a way to love my body was exercise. Not because yayyy exercise = losing weight, but because getting stronger and better makes me feel like a badass, and also because you see all sorts of womens bodies in the locker room, and it is awesome to see what a variety we all have, and how badass all of these other women are too.
@cherrispryte Oh man, this. I have been struggling with this so so hard lately. I put on 30 pounds last year, and I keep finding myself saying things like "Oh, once I lose that weight, then I'll join OK Cupid" or "Once I get skinnier then I'll let myself go shopping at the adorable little boutique down the road." And it is stupid and it sucks and it is SO hard to break. I'm finally getting to the point where I'm like "Fuck it, I'm just going to go buy some cute dresses at H&M and stop worrying about it (mostly)" but I really do think that is one of the worst things about being a little insecure in your body – the feeling that you're not like deserving of doing the fun things that "normal" girls do. Ugh. Body image bullshit is the worst.
@FMoss3 Not to reference "What Not To Wear," but I'm totally gonna. Did you see the one with Cheryl Burke & Jenny McCarthy's assistant? She was the most endearing woman and she had the same "not deserving" hang-ups. I kind of lost my point here, but I guess to summarize: she deserved the world, you deserve the world and I don't know you but I think you look great.
@thebestjasmine Frustratingly (and I am a Bad Feminist for this and all) I got over a lot of my ish about my body because of someone I was seeing. Another person finding you genuinely attractive does wonders for self-esteem and self-image.
Exercise has only ever made me hate my body more, which complicates things. I am trying to figure out ways around this, but its tough.
@cherrispryte Yup, same here. Most likely whatever dudes you are boning are just so happy to be getting some that they don't even notice. But if you feel too self concious to wear like sexy underwear or whatever, I have three words: Vintagey high waisted panties.
@thebestjasmine OMG YES to exercise! Not to lose weight but to change your relationship with your body!
It's funny, I lost my few "extra" pounds for my wedding by dieting (I know, ugh) and was miserable. Plus, food was all I talked about. Then after the wedding I got a bike and started riding it. Soon I was riding it to work and now I commute 20 miles round trip every day (including during Chicago winters) and ride centuries and ride a fixed gear and am considering doing cyclocross. NOTHING has changed my inner dialogue for the better more than my (3!) bike(s). Suddenly my ass and thighs are the power that makes me go, not some awful things I want to liposuction away. I weigh several pounds more than I did at my thinnest but feel sexier and more powerful than ever. Sure my calves are now too big to fit into all those awesome knee-high boots but fuck it, I'm badass!
Find something active to do. Something fun, that makes you feel accomplished and alive. It could be evening walks, or running, or cycling, or playing kickball. Soon you'll notice men and women of all shapes and sizes doing the same thing. It's so empowering!
@misskaz And what you said is the KEY. Find something fun, that you like. I started swimming regularly about two years ago, and I love it so much, and it makes me sad on days when I can't do it. And while swimming seems like the last thing that anyone who has body issues should do, it is SO FREEING to just know that everyone can see my whole body when I get into the pool, and there's nothing I can do about it. It is also super awesome to see all of these women who are way older than me rock the hell out in the pool, and that women of all sizes can be awesome.
Yoga is also fantastic for this, if you find the right instructor. And, not to make it all competitive or anything (hahahaha lie), but it's fantastic when you can do something better than some of the skinny people in your class, even though that's totally anti yoga and I try to ignore that voice in my head.
@cherrispryte I also hate exercise. I had a period of going through a serious slump where I would just lie in bed and cry (TMI internet? sorry) so I started taking my dog for walks and crying, and then I realized that the walks were giving me time to breathe and think and even if I'm still bawling my face off at least I'm outside in the fresh air not lying in a heap on my bed? So I started doing it more often – because it was good for my headspace.
Anyways so now walking is my exercise. People make fun of me when I say that but it's the best, and it doesn't feel like sweaty high-energy exercise which I hate.
@thebestjasmine
I agree with you on this one, but I'm with @misskaz for stuff like doing the elliptical. When I get exercise that's hiking, climbing things, DOING things, then I start thinking about my body parts for what they can do, not for what they look like. When I'm in the gym, on the treadmill, reading US Weekly, it just reinforces the "I don't look like Kim Kardashian" voice. And then there's the whole other layer of mindfuck of "Why the hell would you want to compare yourself to Kim Kardashian?" that the other half of my brain starts bleating.
So. Don't just exercise, do interesting stuff that happens to make you stronger/more fit.
@redheadedandcrazy I mean, I walk everywhere anyway?
I also was a VERY FAT KID growing up, and so was kind of forced to exercise from a pretty young age and well, these are things I should be discussing with a therapist, not mostly-strangers from the internet. But issues. I haz them.
@thebestjasmine Oh gosh, yes I can relate whole-heartedly to this – I started cross-country running a while back for weight loss and fitness but the most positive affect was actually feeling confident in the strength and power of my own body as I propelled myself through that final mile of woodland. Also, clearer thoughts, better sleep, less interest in stuff like smoking and drinking, all contributed to a way more at-ease approach to life and to myself.
And, also, coming from a Catholic background (we don't get undressed in front of each other – the first time I saw a naked adult was in a porno at a friend's house when I was 13), the raw unpredictability, textures, sizes, and undulations of the human body was just not available to me. Being in non-Catholic locker rooms and on nudey European beaches has been great for understanding how crazy it is to aspire to any kind of flawless ideal – it's unattainable. No body is perfect.
@cherrispryte Honestly, I think that finding something that you really enjoy is the only way to do it. Because I have all of the same issues as you, and always hated exercise and it made me sad, and then I found something that I loved and have kept going because I love it. Which, you know, is easier said than done, but I also think if we stop thinking about exercise as "things that are done at the gym" it makes it a lot easier.
@cherrispryte so what you're SAYING is … you don't think walking is really exercise either! I GET IT.
But anyways I wasn't trying to prescribe walking to everybody else (although you know, everybody should walk it's good for your mental health) I was just… ramblin' on. To the internet. As I do.
@misskaz How do you do it??? My Chicago commute would be 20 miles round trip and I think it would kill me. You are awesome.
@cherrispryte
@MrComment
on the guy end of things, I have known really cute, chubby guys on your dateless end of things who didn't embrace it all orson-wells style (I mean, I'd do him — I know he was a bit of a jerk, but a sexy one? To me, at least) but instead who were in a "who will love me? (no one)" state of mind.
And, this one guy in particular, who I'm thinking of (in his chubby sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo dateless phase) was a super sweet kid. Not my type (he was no Orson! And just, not for me) but I always felt like he had a pretty solidly good heart & mind to offer a girl.
So, like, he was totally available and longing for some lady companionship, and you seem like you're longing for some love, so what would happen if the two of you got together? I'm guessing that it would be too hard because then you would just feel like two losers together, and mutually reject each other and yourselves. (For the record, pretty people do this a lot in relationships, too & can tear each other down).
So, that's not a solution, but, there's a bright spot… nice chubby guy eventually grew out of it, did the right things in his personal development as a human being, is proud of his accomplishments (sadly made sans dates), isn't 23 anymore (g'bye shy sweet dateless chubby dude, you were such a butterfly in the universe, even if you didn't know it! You suspected it — and your friends supported and encouraged you), and lo and behold… he's dating! He didn't "lose weight and start dating". He "grew up" and started dating. Plenty of hot people have self loathing, and don't feel good about themselves (as hp ladies have pointed out).
I realize things being such as they are these things DO factor, and it is easier to be "well adjusted" if you don't have any obvious so-called (and so named and created) shortcomings. So it IS harder, and that's the real truth, but still…
LIFE is hard, life is a challenge. And one of the biggest challenges is to really look at yourself and others with TRUE love. Then you'll start having banging relationships (ha! pun!) with others. Yeh, you could go the easy route, but in the END you really can't skip steps, so why put it off? Make it easier on yourself BY BEING easier on yourself. I know it's tricky, I know it's hard what with Madison Avenue and all, not to mention Hollywood but think of it as a challenge. All that glitters is not gold. The real shine is the diamond that is you.
The end.
Oh man, I don't mind when people share too much on TheHairpin, but it does make me sad and want to give you a hug/send you a card/buy you a drink!
@redheadedandcrazy Oh man I am in a situation which makes me cry-walk ALL the time. Can we hang out and cry-walk together? We can strap our pedometers to our hankies and away we go!
@randummy … am I the only one really confused by this comment?
@cherrispryte You are not.
@Inkcrafter haha YES! Don't forget your sunglasses! So key.
@josiah I am doing much better now
@redheadedandcrazy Hey, they say walking is THE BEST exercise you can do for your body. Low impact, and you can do it for life. I know some people who's pets were the only thing that got them through some rough times. Walking is great.
@AuntAgatha randummy is responding to LW1, not to me, right?
@cherrispryte I think so? But even if randummy is referring to you, at least they think you're a diamond, which is good unless you hate diamonds.
@vanillawaif I saw that one too and was pissed off by how everyone made her appearance about her self-esteem: "Honey, if you look pretty, you'll feel better." Since she didn't seem to be depressed before they threw out all her hockey jerseys, I'm not sure why they took that tack instead of just saying, "you know what? I know you feel great, but let's fix the wardrobe so you're as glam as your job."
Also, the "after" eye makeup they used made her look like she'd been punched.
@cherrispryte
oh, yea the comment was to LW#1 in support of your statement:
"I would strongly suggest that LW#1 does not wait to 'have a normal life' until after she's lost weight. "
I thought that would be clear but then it totally was not.
It was definitely not directed towards you:
fat girls date and hook up and have relationships just like [skinny & average weight] people!… And no one I've ever been intimate with has ever said a damn word about them. [Because they would be weirdly unkind if they did... and that's the opposite of what sex is about: feeling good about your self and your body!]
MrComment:
Lady #1: "When I lose the weight…" Nope. You have the right to participate now. Work on losing it if you want to lose it, but you'll always be able to find a reason to keep yourself outside of things. You will be rejected, but that's part of the deal.
@randummy I rambled on so much because I really relate to this issue of "beauty" == love and kindness & ugly == cruel neglect and derision (at worst, pity at best).
I am very different, and pretty observant, and growing up, I knew my experience would be a hell of a lot different if I were beautiful, and I was thankful for what armor my attractiveness did provide me. People could fuck with me, but only so much: because at the end of the day I had some status conferred by looks.
What do you do when you're uncomfortable with almost all of your skin, and you think other people might be, too? I think if I could be comfortable with myself and the marks, I could handle other people's reactions better
This just strikes me as such a sincere, and right-on sentiment, and I really wanted to speak to that. It's unrealistic to say, oh, people don't care "it's all in your head" only you is holding you back.
That is a big ol' lie. Like, I still TOTALLY remember girl with out a face, and honor and respect her memory as a feminist saint. I mourn her departure from this earth, self-imposed (she walked away from life). I like to think that she contributed to what is a somewhat (and that bit of difference is so crucially important!) more accepting cultural environment today. But the truth is we are still looking at surfaces, and being confused by them, and not seeing past them. It's natural, it's how the human brain works but the brain is also far more sophisticated. First you lie around wiggling, then you crawl, then you walk. Eventually you are running and climbing, and you can even do crazy ass acrobatics (or man, acrobats are sooo beautiful and amazing!)
So, LW1 has this reasonable assumption that if she weren't handicapped by being scapegoated for people's fears of being unacceptable (played out on a physical superficial level of beauty) she'd an easier time of things. A better time. And, it's hard to argue with that logic. The whole point of the scapegoat game is so that others can avoid their issues. They can thrust them on you. All the "normal" folks can feel good about themselves, PRECISELY BECAUSE they're better than… that other guy. It's a status thing. Again, a natural way the brain works not evidence of some kind of deep sin, it's just a bit of a hazard with the way the brain works, something to recognize and adjust for – which the brain is doing all the time (adjusting for new information & perception), once it understands what is going on.
But at the same time, if you go down that tack of "let me try and minimize getting the brunt of people's shame thrust upon me because it's fucking awful" by dodging that bullet, ie. losing weight (problem solved! see! ohdamn, what about these stretch marks?) it's really much better to switch up the game. Because that game sucks and everybody loses, even the winners. My god but I've known pretty girls deeply damaged by their looks. Forget about when they start to go….
But, it's facetious to say "oh looks don't matter" accept yourself when they so totally DO matter. Except, wait?! All these people exist who aren't "hot" why don't they turn to each other and pair up? Well, the answer is because then they wouldn't be "maximizing their potential and their options" they would be "doubling up/down" on their scapegoatedness/looserness (now there's two of them, not just one, reinforcing their status). Except that there is power in numbers. And as far as the numbers go, there's way more flawed looking individuals rather than "gorgeous ones" (but, wait! we're all so gorgeous! just take a look in the eyes… look at all those amazing little consciousnesses alive! Lively! So interesting, these humans, and so capable of such complex emotions, so capable of going so awry or of really shining and delighting!)
But it totally starts with shifting the way you see things. And for someone who has struggled with weight issues, that might be built-in to their journey, because not everyone "can" lose weight in order to reaffirm some negative view of themselves (ie. that fat they totally are not fuckable/hot so the loving they receive is totally conditional). That doesn't work as great motivation necessarily. It's definitely not come from an "authentic" place. So then this even worse reinforcement can happen (forget about dodging a bullet if you CAN lose the weight, so that even if you have the secret knowledge that you WERE unlovable and that love/sex is totally conditional on not being weak (ie. fat, a moral failing to control yourself and, most importantly, fit in)).
Where the brain gets tricky here is that "the love received" is somewhat mirrored by how people are feeling on the inside. And weight CAN be a reflection of that, just like acne can be, or stuttering. These are vulnerabilities that SHOW on the outside. But the thing is, there's also a funny kind of strength in that. There is a dignity that can come with. A certain kind of rakish twinkle. A steampunk badassery that is just as fashionably compelling as straight physical beauty, and sometimes more so. There's a lustiness that can come being yourself that is very sexually charismatic.
So I was responding to your post re:
I think if I could be comfortable with myself and the marks (…[I could sidestep/navigate other people's potential projected issues])
but LW1 still was thinking from the starting point of… "when I make myself more acceptable" then [she] will still need to deal with the unacceptable parts of herself using ingenuity/creativity/balls/self-confidence.
I was kind of saying, cut to the quick and just start with that NOW, not at some (hypothetical) potential future date.
To my mind I was so OBVIOUSLY writing to LW1 that I was shocked that you could possibly think I was referring to you. You were my point of inspiration!
@redheadedandcrazy Yes, you HAVE to have your sunnies during cry-walking. I used to do this everyday walking home from my old job that I hated (the cry-walking was also exacerbated by body-image issues/lack of dates/etc.), and I have a good friend who has done the same. I think cry-walking is A Thing that a lot of people do. In addition to the Pin-Ups, could we organize a Cry-Walk-a-Thon? We'd look like a big sea of Ask A Ladies.
@redheadedandcrazy Yes to the cry-walking. Let's meet up and do it together. Also… cry-running? I have definitely done that too.
@cherrispryte Orson Welles is totally hot. The Third Man? I'd hit that.
Lady #1: "When I lose the weight…" Nope. You have the right to participate now. Work on losing it if you want to lose it, but you'll always be able to find a reason to keep yourself outside of things. You will be rejected, but that's part of the deal.
Don't use the weight as an excuse to protect yourself. You'll end up waiting forever to get out there.
@MrComment Agreed! #1, you are better than that! Take it from someone who has been there, you think you are much uglier than anyone else does. You do, I promise, trust me. You do! Take this piece of advice so close to your heart: "And remind yourself as often as you need to that this IS normal life, and you don't have to earn permission to start living it." Say it to yourself everyday! I believe in you, LW#1. I really, really do.
@MrComment AMEN. It isn't like you get extra time on this planet. Life is going on right now -LIVE IT. Like Auntie Mame said, "Life's a banquet and most poor bastards are starving."
I would also say that the vast majority of folk aren't bothered by stretch marks. They are too busy thinking, "YEAH NAKED PERSON and I get to have sex with them."
The advice to #1 was so good. I want to print it out and frame it.
lady 2- I think if you can't respect someone as your intellectual equal, you can't force it. I figure if you are going to end up with that person FOREVER, you can't be running out of things to say to them in the first few years, which is basically what this boils down to. You are overthinking it a lot. Also wake and bake would really piss me off, because I like to DO stuff in the morning. There are many many men between "never reads a book" and "brings up Foucalt at every single dinner."
But as a broader question for the gallery- what level of compatibility do you guys all think is essential? Do people here believe in trade offs? Like you give up SUPER hot sex for really nice? Or you give up really stimulating conversation for amazing sex? Or are you all in the "hold out for THE ONE, the ONLY one who is hot and nice and perfect in all details like we're one soul split in two?"
@E so… my friend wants to know. what's the right answer?
@E Yes, answer to this, please. My current BF broke up with his now-ex because they were "best friends," but had no sexual chemistry. He and I have chemistry off the chain and like and respect each other much but are we melded souls/spend every waking second together/share a brain and allll the same interests? No. We're happy but so hard to tell what the future holds, you know? UGH.
@E: I cannot give up intellectual stimulation for anything-it is a dealbreaker for me. I don't care how hot he is, if he can't talk politics with me, doesn't read, isn't interested in the world around him, it is not going to work. I've tried dating the hot but intellectually challenged guys before and it takes very little time before I want out.
@E I need to know this as well. I'm not 100% sure my BF is THE ONE for me, but I think I'm just not the type to be 100% sure of anything, ever. In which case…what percent sure is enough? Like, he's super supportive and sweet, but doesn't always get my jokes. But sometimes he does! And then sometimes he gets too drunk and I cringe at the stuff that comes out of his mouth — but sometimes I get shy and awkward and say nothing at social events, so I'm sure he cringes at that, too. I'm just in this weird place where I'm in the best relationship I've ever had, but it's not the PERFECT relationship, but I'm not sure if holding out for perfect is something I should actually do, or something fairy tales and Disney and what not have tried to trick me into doing.
@E/kitty/janbrady/hooplehead/bokkie. I have no idea! That's why I am asking! My mom said something to me once about how when you meet the person you want to marry, you Just Know. But it's not really like that AT ALL, from what I've seen of the world. You clearly CAN'T know, based on all the cheatin and lying and hating and divorce, and those couples where you think, "god they're so mean to each other, I would die if I were like that" but they last 40 billion years. So where do you draw the line with someone who isn't a mythical soulmate, but also is overall pretty good? Is that good enough? Something something, paradox of choice, societal problems something.
@E I don't know if this is helpful, but when I met my husband, within a couple of months, I KNEW. I think there are no perfect relationships—things only seem perfect when you don't really know each other well enough to have problems yet. But I knew, nonetheless, imperfections and all. And we aren't divorced, and have been together for 10 years, and I'm over 40, so obviously, very, very old. Probably wise, even, at this point. Like an owl. Or a tortoise.
@bokkie Not to sound like an old married lady (or my mom) but honey, there is no perfect. There is no 100%. There will never be a perfect 100%, ever, not ever. You just have to figure out if the things you don't like about him outweigh the things you do like. And if the things you don't like are dealbreakers or not. Sounds like you have a good grasp of who you both are, warts and all, which is like 90% of the battle. The other 10% is deciding if you can accept (and be happy with) him as-is.
Like ironhoneybee and E's mom said, you just know. It sounds lame, but is somehow so clear when it happens. Not that the person is perfect, just that you know the compromises are coming and you are ok with them. To address the issue of divorce, I think the hardest work is in remembering what you value in the person, and keeping that commitment to working through problems.
@bokkie – Not getting my jokes is a deal breaker for me. Means the person doesn't see the world as I see it. 'You don't get me' is a sad feeling.
@ironhoneybee okay, but what if you were with someone and you honestly DIDN'T know. Like…the first flush of infatuation has passed, things are good, you love them, but still, no bell chimes- you could see things being okay either way. I understand some people just know. But for example as a comparison, some people just know they want kids, some people know they don't, but no one talks about the middle- who don't really WANT kids, but don't actively NOT WANT kids. I'm asking, what do you do in that place? Your just knowing, doesn't preclude that there are other peope who never knew, but should have stayed with that guy they felt 85% sure about, or those people who stayed with the 85% guy, but should have left. That's the eternal mystery I'm grappling with.
@bokkie I don't know if this helps, but I've been married for 5 years, and the things that I worried about before we got engaged/married never became an issue. To be fair, they were pretty silly. (He loves red meat and I love beans. Whatever will we do?) I guess what I'm saying is that you probably can work out whether you're looking for things to worry about/trivial imperfections or whether your differences are too fundamental.
@no way When do you know? Does that initial flush of knowing mean you never have any doubts EVER? Did you ever just KNOW, and then that relationship didn't work out? Because for me, I had that. I had a person I was ready to buy matching graveyards with. I FUCKING KNEW WITH NO DOUBTS. And then it ended. And maybe people would say, "okay but he simply wasn't the right one". But that's contrary to the whole "when you know you know". Because that time it was so different. I remember how I just suddenly knew for sure, and it was like you say- not that things were perfect, but i knew, and i knew he knew too, and we said that to each other, and then he just bailed. It was the worst thing in my whole life because of what it's done to my brain afterwards. Now I question if it's possible to ever get back to just knowing. It's one thing to KNOW with one person, but the next time around it's different. It truly is. And I also have to consider the possibility that there may be people who don't "know" when they get together, but at the end of their life together they were plenty happy overall.
I am with someone great. In a lot of ways he's 100% more awesome than the person I KNEW with. There are a few somewhat crucial problems as well, which may or may not improve or be things I can live with. But I don't have knowing, not in the same way. So what do you do there? Walk away from something measurably better, simply for lack of a conviction that was totally wrong when you had it the first time? I don't expect perfection, but its that very lack of expectation that has me question if "pretty good " right now, would really be "amazing and I just know" if I hadn't been through that the first time.
Ugh. I should just drink some wine and talk to a shrink.
@E P.S. I'm 27. I have had more than 3 relationships that lasted over a year, lived with one of those people, did long distance with more than one, and I am completely self supporting. So just to clarify I'm at the age where when I call a friend and say, "I have big news!" they think I mean a ring and not that I put new planters on my patio. These questions aren't as hypothetical as they were when I was 22 and just wondering what "settling" really meant.
@E Wow…I could have written exactly what you wrote. I, too, fell for this guy who I thought was It based on the fact that it Felt Right, and I thought that was it was a done deal. Except our incredibly passionate relationship degenerated into him just being completely and flat out mean to me once we'd already found a place together, I'd introduced him to my family and friends, and basically had made a big show out of how committed we were, because I thought It was settled.
Now that the whole thing has comfortably receded two years into the past, I'm actually in a relationship with a truly good man, but it lacks the urgency and self-immolating passion of my previous relationship and now I just constantly worry that I'm going down the wrong path, that I somehow need to hold out for some 100% made-me-me rogue to sweep into my life. Except I think that we've been duped to expect this to happen and to expect our relationships to magically work out for us just because of chemistry…? The guy I'm with is the first man I've ever dated who's made my life easier instead of harder, but I still have these gd doubts! I'm nearly 29, also have a handful of serious relationships under the belt, don't feel any pressure for marriage or kids, but in some ways, I still feel confused. So your note hit super close to home! But thanks so much for putting that out there!
@E I so understand what you're saying. I had that experience of KNOWING with a guy, of just being so sure he was my true, honest-to-god soul mate. And then it didn't work out. Like, at all. And it pretty much wrecked me for years. I don't know if it's because I'm a deeply entrenched romantic (now hidden beneath layers of cynicism), if I read too many books that said certain things or what; but I had always believed in that One True Soul Mate of Love thing, so to see it not happen like I thought it would… my brain just couldn't compute it.
Now many years later, I am with literally the most wonderful man I've ever known, who is hilarious and kind and awesome and smart and so much fun, and he treats me wonderfully. I'm in my 30s and am totally at settling down point, so it's all great. Except that… I keep freaking out in my brain that I don't get that same Cosmic Knowing Feeling. And then I wonder, what even is that feeling? I had Feelings very early on with my boyfriend, and I sometimes wonder if I just don't recognize that heady emotional burst because things are actually GOOD and NORMAL, so my hormones(?) have nothing to feed on.
Anyway, the point of all of this is that I DO see a shrink, and she is just consistently like, "Calm the fuck down." She tells me that the Just Knowing feeling is not necessarily True and Eternal (and is sometimes just chemicals) and that the people she actually worries about are the ones who ARE heady and swoony b/c sometimes they aren't paying attention to what they should be.
Which is not to say that people who Just Know are wrong. Just that I have a sneaking suspicion that it's not the only way. I don't have any answers really because I do believe in trusting your gut but also know one's gut can get jacked by negative experiences. So I'm just trying to focus on what's real and what's good and take it one day at a time. That being said, with my last two boyfriends I Just Knew it was NOT right. One of them I really wanted to be right too – I tried really hard, but when I sat quietly with myself, I knew it wasn't what I wanted. So if you get that… that's a kind of Knowing too. But if you don't get that, it's also a kind of Knowing. If that makes sense?
@E It's different for everyone and for every relationship, but I have never KNOWN in a lightening bolt instant, have never believed in soul mates or love at first sight, but here I am, happily married anyway!
When I met my now husband, we were both in a commitment-phobic, just playing the field, I may never want to be married phase which, oddly, actually helped our relationship. We knew we liked each other. We knew we didn't like anyone else as much as we liked each other. And that was as far as we really pushed things for quite some time. And it took so much pressure off the relationship, so things were just able to go along naturally, slowly, at a pace we were both comfortable with.
My advice would be to stop pushing so hard, stop analyzing and questioning it at every moment. Just be content in the moment. You love him, he loves you, you have fun together – let that be enough for now. Stop wondering when you are going to KNOW because really – you never will. You will take a(n educated) leap of faith based on the information you have at hand and hope for the best. That's what everyone does, really. Even the people who say they just KNOW. They're working on gut instinct combined with what they know about themselves and their partner, just like those of us who never KNEW.
I hope this helps – or at least, makes sense.
@E THIS
@E The answer I have come to believe is that just because someone is your true love, it does not follow that you are theirs. But it doesn't mean we were wrong, it just means God hates us.
@E There is no way I would EVER trade bad sex for a nice guy. I have, however, in the past put up with assholes for amazing sex. Thankfully I learned my lesson there.
Now I hold out for chemistry (aka good sex) and he treats me well and I like hanging out with him. Anything else is just a waste of time.
@FoxBaseAlpha Oh good. This is is more what I was asking. So there are those of of you who can make peace with uncertainty! And there are other people who are like me, pre making peace.
I guess I don't spend every night thinking this way. Mostly I'm quite happy with where I am. And I'm in no rush to accelerate things. But…I'd describe myself as waiting for a little voice one way or the other, and it feels like now that it's been a while together, I should hear SOMETHING.
@E Hey E – sorry I didn't get back to this earlier. Everyone's experience is different. I'm 33. I've had 4 relationships that have lasted over 4 years. With each of my previous partners I knew things were nice, and that we were compatible, but that there was no way I was sticking with them FOREVER. With my husband, it took about 2 months, and yeah, there were/are doubts, and it was really really scary, and he's not perfect, but I knew we could make it work.
The thing is, as others have said, it's not a knowing that this is THE person, it's a knowing that this is A person you could be with forever. I'm sorry your 'known' deteriorated; maybe think of it as a known possibility, not a known certainty. I stand firmly against the idea of THE ONE.
On the other side, people can be happy partnered in many different ways. You don't have to have electric rainbow fireworks of love and soul mate 99% matches. Maybe you just get along and think you probably always will, or like Bebe, the relationship just turns into something committed as it progresses. Even arraigned marriages can be happy and fulfilling. Like many things in life, if carried out with integrity, commitment, and respect, things will probably work out for the best.
@E I had the lightening strike of "OMG, this is the guy I'm going to spend the rest of my life with." I had madly passionate relationship with the guy, we lived together for a while and that was even great. When we broke up it was actually an incredibly intense combination of moral and political issues rather than largely personal ones (dude was from another, complicated country and that's all another story for another time.)
Years later I'm all "holy shit, that NEVER would have lasted." I was too young, too blinded by all the excitement and love-iness and the story of how perfect we were with each other to notice there were actually some other crappy things going on in the relationship.
Now I'm pretty much engaged (there hasn't been a ring or formal announcement but even my mom knows we plan on getting married eventually) to an excellent guy and it's terribly different. This time there was no lightening or passionate declaration of having found "THE ONE." I just hit the point in my life where I was ready to build a life with someone else and then realized that I really liked the idea of the life that I could build with this particular person. It's not just that we like each other loads or laugh a lot or have great fun and talks and sex together (although we do, do all those things), it's that we can both picture a future together and are ready/want to put in the work to make that happen. It feels less like lightening than like coming home.
I think it's all different for everyone but I think "finding the ONE" is more a matter of deciding that a person is what you want as opposed to finding someone who is EVERYTHING you think you want.
@E Thanks for this thread. I'm in the trenches of notknowing too. I also had the experience of KNOWING and being so sososo wrong. I am trying to follow the advice of Bebe up there, and cut back on the agonizing. But I guess it's hard for me to admit I don't know and not try to DO something about the fact that I don't know. Yeah. Also about to turn 29. Glad you are all on a similar page. It's comforting to know that other people have just as many… thoughts… as I do.
To the first lady—obviously, accepting yourself is key.
If, however, you want to treat the stretchmarks, now's the time to do it. If they are still purple or red, they have the best chance of healing well. You can do laser treatments at the dermatologist's, or you can try a serum like StriVectin. At the end of the day, nothing will fade them completely. And any treatment will be expensive and/or painful. Loving yourself is way easier.
"Hung the moon" is a phrase that needs a resurgence in popularity
@charlesbois At first I read it as "Hung like the moon" and was wondering what that might mean.
@klibberfish Spherical with a dark side. And cratered.
@klibberfish: Nice round bottom.
@klibberfish Only full once a month.
I think I might have accidentally written #2 in my sleep and sent it in. This is precisely the situation I have been in for the last 2 years, off and on. And it has been off and on because I keep trying to do the 'right' thing and end it with my stoner/supported by his parents/general 'artist'/will never have a career loverboy but we keep coming back to each other because we are so emotionally compatible. But he doesn't read, and he doesn't understand a lot of the things I say, and he's a classic loser. When I break up with him I end up dating people who are smart that I respect and are more 'on my level' and they never prove to be as emotionally supportive as the stoner so I run back to him when I get stomped on by those others. And he runs back to me when the girls who are cool with his unemployment/lameness are not as well-rounded as me. We're both stuck. If this woman can break it off and make it stick she will be much happier, because I end up resenting my stoner too much to make the relationship work. And it takes less and less time to get to the resentment every time we get back together. It is a bad row to hoe.
@PerinealFavorite Been there. Dated artist/high-school-dropout/never-wants-career guy for nearly a year, but took practically a whole other year to get over him. Same deal: Kept trying and failing to break up with him because the emotional supportiveness and intelligence was so, so great. Finally cut it off, after much torture and pain and sadness, but now we've both moved on to significant others with whom we're much more at peace, and are still friends. Good luck to you. It's a bad row, indeed.
@PerinealFavorite I did this once, sort of – just replace "sexually" everywhere you said "emotionally" and there you have it. Much easier to break that kind of thing off, though. I feel for you – stay strong!
LW3: It's like that episode of Friends where Monica breaks up with Tom Selleck's moustache because it was done having kids, and everyone was very proud and supportive because she'd made a tough-but-correct decision. And then later they tried to bring Tom Selleck's moustache back several more times because, hey, it's a pretty sweet moustache, but it was just strange and awkward for everybody.
Stick to your guns, it'll just be too strange if you don't. You'll get Binged sooner or later.
@steve you are my soul mate. Will you bing me?
@steve I wish I could give this more than one thumbs up.
@steve Wow. This just made me oddly emotional. Thank you.
@Kitty
If you'll be my lobster.
@steve I want to be Binged so bad. Ms. Chanandler Bong is my perfect man!
@steve our love will be based on giving and receiving as well as having and sharing. And through this having and giving and sharing and receiving, we too can share and love and have and receive.
The advice to LW1 is indeed really solid advice, but I always feel like there's a disconnect between reading that advice, and knowing it should be true, and then making it true for yourself. I used to weigh somewhat more than I do now and I used to seriously lack positive body image, even though I was hanging around with a lot of positive body image feminist type people who were super accepting, and you know, in theory I really believed in all those ideas.
But in reality I just couldn't force myself to have confidence? I would still look in the mirror and not be happy with the way I looked. Improving your self-esteem is a long, slow process with a lot of setbacks in my opinion.
I lost a bunch of weight a few years ago to a point where I'm actually really happy with how my body looks. But it's almost as though my low self-esteem has found other ways to subvert my confidence. I worry a lot more about my personality and whether people like that, than I used to. So you know, I fixed what I thought was the problem – my weight. But really the problem is my outlook on life and not feeling valued by people?
So anyways, thinking that losing weight magically fixes everything and gives you the normal life you've always dreamed of – not true. Maybe superficially. I don't know.
@redheadedandcrazy I have found that the whole positive body image scene is completely different when you're judging yourself vs. other people. I'm (clearly) quick as hell to call out anti-fat sentiment pretty much anywhere I see it, and yet I also hate the way my arms look in the shirt I'm wearing today. Self esteem is a really complicated thing.
@redheadedandcrazy Sigh. Weight is an easy stick to beat women with. And it is frequently the easiest stick to beat ourselves with. I think deep down a lot of us know that the weight isn't the ultimate problem, especially when we cheer on others to accept themselves so we should ostensibly know better. My weight is my excuse to be unhappy, when really I need to deal with why I'm so unhappy. You just hit the nail on the head. Thanks for the reminder to focus on healing
.
@redheadedandcrazy This is the premise of Fat is a Feminist Issue. I know, it's old, and from a white woman's perspective, but it helped me deal with my demons, small as they were.
@cherrispryte I feel slightly inappropriate writing this, but I've been reading your comments on this post, and I remember you from the early summer meetup. And I thought you were quite lovely.
When you're down on how you look, imagine what would happen if you were in a car accident and your face got all jacked up. Burned or disassembled or whatever.
Would you be able to live after that, or would you kill yourself because you were less pretty than you wanted to be?
If you'd be able to live, why?
Whatever your answer is, concentrate on that. (The things you'd be living for if it wasn't possible to be pretty.)
@shenannies thank you!
@redheadedandcrazy I understand the advice about accepting yourself, but I struggle to see how that connects with believing another person, to be frank, would do you without regretting it. I know my body isn't perfect, I'm fat and things, but I still think I'm cute sometimes.
I think that, for someone to be with me, I'd have to have no baggage whatsoever because they're already at a loss by being with my physical form. I sometimes think that somebody would be willing to deal with my former messes were I thinner, but I normally realise that I'd just find something else wrong with me.
Ahhhhh hairpinners let's go to Cognitive Behavioural Therapy camp next summer!
Every Lady should be a kindly old lady.
LW#1 – I'm in a similar boat to you (the same one!) but 10 years older, and a dude. I've just in the last month or so looked at the mirror, the scale, and the calendar, and decided it's time to make a change.
The fact is, some of it stays and some of it doesn't, I hear. You're a lot younger than me, so most of it will go. But that doesn't matter: here's what does.
You're obviously a sensitive person, and if you're capable of caring about others (which you do, obviously, because you're already concerned with what they'll think) that's the most important thing. I have spent the last 10 years of my life going on few enough dates that I can count them on my two hands because I had the same concerns you list here, and….it's just sad. Don't make my mistake.
Cuz the thing is? Those dates have been with women ranging the entire spectrum of looks (as much of it as you can cover with a small number) and there's no correlation whatsoever between how the woman looked the first time I saw her and what she looked like after I got to know her. Just be yourself and let people find what they like about you, and in the morning when you walk to the coffee machine in your tatteredest pajamas, they'll see you like a movie star on the red carpet. Caring about someone does that.
It's hard as fuck, and it's brutal, and making the change is so. fucking. hard. But you have to do it for you – because you want to feel better, live longer, whatever. But please, please, please put yourself out their now, because if you want to wait until you're perfect to stop being alone, you just end up slightly less flawed and lonely.
The shit about us we don't like fades, but only a little. The warmth of good times spent with other people, who care about us and us about them – even when a relationship ends, you'll have the best feelings a person can have forever. Good luck out there.
(i feel very awkward writing that after meeting so many of you, but seriously LW1 – get yourself out there. nothing is going to make you feel better about how you look than the smile you are going to put on someone's face when you care about each other)
@leon.saintjean I agree. You have to put yourself out there and be open to rejection. And that is the hardest thing when you have low self-esteem or poor body image or whatever you want to call it, because every rejection feels so crushing and personal, which it is in a way, but it really isn't because people just have different tastes – looks, personality, whatever – and that's not really meant as a personal attack it's just … reality.
I also have not put myself out there enough in the past and I'm extremely determined to do it more often now! Getting rejected always sucks, but people get rejected no matter what they look like or if they're the most kindest, sweetest person ever. It's a learning experience right?
@leon.saintjean This is really the best advice and thank you for saying it even though you've met some of us, me included, in person. I'm wishing you very good luck with your changes!
@Rosebudddd – It was great to meet you, and thanks! Now I just have to live out that old adage that living advice is a lot harder than giving advice.
(Ughhh I have been working so much. I typed adage as in how I meant it but all I see is the name of a magazine)
@leon.saintjean Really beautifully put, especially this: "there's no correlation whatsoever between how the woman looked the first time I saw her and what she looked like after I got to know her."
There is nothing more true – once you see someone's beauty within (or the opposite) the outside just doesn't matter much anymore.
@scully Well, more to the point, sometimes people we don't initially recognize as stunning turn out to be so after we've gotten to know them.
LW#2 "I have a drinking problem where I turn into an asshole, but it really bothers me that he smokes pot and chills out."
@NeenerNeener Right?? Plus, "I kinda hate my friends, but I'm really concerned with what they think of who I'm dating."
@Xora Plus, "His quick wit makes me laugh all the time, but he's not as intelligent as me/my friends." And, "He's genuinely interested in the things I'm into, but I resent having to explain things to him."
Oh dear, what I'm going through is a mixture of #2 and #3. I broke up with him partly because of the whole pot! pot all the time! all the time! thing but I love him so much that I can't stop sleeping with him and saying "I love you so much" like every two seconds and I guess that technically means we're not broken up except for on facebook/in my parents' eyes. STRUGS. So I feel you, ladies, and while I know I'm supposed to say "cut it off and run," I know it's not that easy.
I used to be very self-conscious about my stretch-marks, too. They have since faded and are barely visible now, but honestly even if I still had them I don't think I'd care at this point. LOTS of people have stretch marks! And/or cellulite, fat rolls, moles, skin tags, ingrown toenails, flaky elbows, cankles, crooked teeth, frizzy hair, warts, all sorts of stuff! We all have features we're self-conscious about, and if the people who see us naked even notice these things, they don't care about them as much as we do. And honestly, seeing your imperfections will make them feel better about their own imperfections.
LW1: My stomach looks like a relief map of Chile. Trust me; not a single partner has ever cared. I kind of stumbled onto something kind of life-changing when I realized a few years ago that, hey! If someone does not like the way I look, or the shape of my body, or my tons of stretch marks and scars, that's THEIR problem. Not mine. Even when I have bad days and I don't feel that way, I repeat it until it becomes true. Their problem, not yours. Repeat after me. Their problem, not yours.
Oh, Letter Writer 1, please start your life now. I've been that girl, and I was so much happier to be a bit fat and dating and having fun. Don't even wait for clothes to get fun because you're thinner. Clothes are still fun, even when you're bigger! It's harder to find them, but once you do, you'll be so pleased! No man you're with will complain about your body, unless he SUCKS. If he sucks, at least then you know and can dump him!
As for Letter #2… I felt like I was possibly dating down for a short while when I first started my now serious relationship. I decided early on though that emotionally supportive, thinking I "hung the moon", being incredibly sweet to my family are more important to me than him being the future breadwinner so I can live out my dreams of getting paid nothing to do what I love. I'm happy to make my own money, and I'd rather have someone to hold me when it gets stressful and tough. My situation does differ though because there is no drug dependency involved. I would have endless problems with that myself, but that's my line and you have to draw your own. Lady is right. You need to figure out what you'd need from a partner. If it is intellect and financial support, leave your poor stoner.
@SweetAlissum AH GOD. Your second paragraph is my life. I think I am shifting from LW2 to your paragraph 2, I think? I think? BUT IT IS SO CONFUSING. I adore him and he is sweet and wonderful and I think that is what I need right now? And I can talk politics with my grad school friends who are smart and funny but also, sometimes, DICKS. Which I love about them! But I do not want to make a life with them. And also omg the, er, chemistry, omg.
Person #1 – I have stretch marks. I had them when I was 20 and underweight. I have them now at 31 and overweight. I am, as mentioned a nanosecond ago, overweight. But I'm in a committed relationship with an awesome dude and we have awesome sex. So don't let either stretch marks or your body image hold you back from putting yourself out there in the world to experience…well, everything!
Person #2 – Yeah, break it off. It's not going anywhere for either of you. He doesn't deserve a girlfriend who feels like she's settling, and you don't need to be with someone who you don't want to bring around your friends. Also, as mentioned, all your friends who married in their 20s will start divorcing soon anyway.
Person #3 – DO NOT SLEEP WITH HIM! This is a trap! My dude is of the same mind as yours – no more kids, ever. Fortunately, I'm okay with that, but if I weren't I might have to break it off. (But that would still be a hard choice, because there's no guarantee I would ever find someone who was equally awesome AND wanted to have kids. But anyway.)
I think that some exes can do the casual sex thing, but only if the relationship wasn't that emotionally fraught to begin with, they recognize that they should NEVER be together again, and a substantial amount of time has passed. Doing it with an ex who you still have feelings for is just asking for long, drawn-out trouble.
@Flackette Agreed with the last part. Even trying to be friends is hard enough. And trying not to be friends but still get the sex is hard. As much as you want to have contact … the relationship ended and an end should be put to it. And that is hard as well!
Breakups suck.
Lady #1 – I feel your pain. I lost about 100lbs about four years ago. I've got leftover stretchmarks in lots of places as well as a bit of excess skin that I know will prevent me from ever looking very toned. When I met my boyfriend about three years ago I was nervous about what he'd think of my body, which I regarded as severely flawed at the time. He has never said a negative thing about any of it. When I complain about the stretch marks or the skin (which happens from time to time), he assures me that he loves all of it because it is ME. I've been a lot better at applying his feelings about my body to myself and it's raised my confidence a lot. I kinda wish I could have found it without the help of my boyfriend, but I'm glad I found it nonetheless.
@dothezonk
I don't think anyone should feel bad about another person serving as a catalyst for growth or self-actualisation. Other people are pretty good sources of external perspectives!
@dothezonk I slept with someone who had a bit of excess skin for a while, and it was incredibly hot. Because the sex was incredibly hot. Even better when he got comfortable enough with me to take his shirt off. More skin to skin contact? Yes please!…wait what were we talking about?
(oh yeah – hot sex is hot sex.)
Also, LW2: Don't do this guy any favors. He sounds like a pretty decent guy, and he could probably find someone else who appreciates him for who he is and doesn't mind the pot smoking. Let him go. Really. He deserves someone to love him for who he is, warts and bong hits and all, and you deserve to be with someone you don't have to make compromises for.
@kayjay Yes and also if you are downright honest and say "we are breaking up because I can't stand any more wake-and-bakes and your lack of motivation is kind of killing me" it is POSSIBLE that he will be like "you know what? you're right. and I adore you, and if these things are a big enough deal that I might lose you because of them, then it's high time to make some changes." However, those changes will definitely definitely NOT happen if you just stay hunkered down in the way-less-than-ideal relationship.
@Moxie the Maven unless he is making a pun when he says: it's "high" time to make some changes
This Lady is a very good Lady.
On good days, I'm at the top of my class in Love Yourself 101. On bad days, I'm failing out of Intro To Tolerating Your Quirks. The most important thing is to remember everyone has something. Though I might need to get this- "And remind yourself as often as you need to that this IS normal life, and you don't have to earn permission to start living it."- tattooed on my arm.
Lady No. 1: The last thing I would want to do to you is bog you down in platitudes. I've heard a zillion times, "You have such low self-esteem! You need more self-esteem!" Sure, I'll run right out to Self-Esteem Depot and pick that up. I think it's in the aisle with the circular saws. And maaaaaaaybe I see so much of myself in you that I want to relate to you as if you were the little sister I never had and I don't want you to waste your prime fun-having years hating the everloving fuck out of yourself when you could be out, y'know. Having fun! And adventures!
So.
You can be fat and date. You can be fat and be choosy about who you date. You can be fat and have a boyfriend. You can be fat and dump your boyfriend.
You can be fat and have sex. You can be fat and have toe-curlingly hot sex on Frette linens in a boutique hotel. You can be fat and have rough, loud sex bent over the hood of your car. You can be fat and pick up a hot guy at a bar, take him home and have your way with him, and kick his ass right out.
It can totally be done!
But you can be fat and get your heart broken. Because heartbreak happens to slim people too. Heartbreak doesn't care if you're fat or skinny–heartbreak is an equal opportunity asshole.
And I don't want to kick you while you're down, but have you considered that you use the weight to keep people away from you because if there's a tangible thing about you that people could be turned off by they won't be turned off by what's inside tangible thing? I'm not just talking out of my sizable ass–I have spent many thousands of dollars in therapy on this very issue.
I know all too well the If/Then calculus of losing weight. If I lose weight, then I'll get a new job/go to cooking school/get a boyfriend/join a kickball team/et cetera. But the great secret is that you can do all those things already. You always could. Maybe not exactly according to the imaginary arbitrary timetable that you've set for yourself, but you can do them. I've done them. I want you to do them too.
@Clare Oh so much all of this.
@Clare Yes, this.
Personally, I worked on becoming emotionally healthy. I then worked on making my life awesome and the world my oyster. Then I lost weight. In that order.
@Clare I love the phrase "If/Then calculus" and I am appropriating it for my own use. Maybe if I put a name to this debilitating phenomenon, I can KILL IT.
@Clare This needs to be one of those emails that goes around the internet and educates everyone.
@Clare One "like" is not enough
@Clare Applause!!
Also YES @charizard.
I feel like saying more things to #1, but mostly it's about knowing and liking yourself, which takes time and effort, but is totally possible. And what everyone else already said.
@Clare: Trying to self-talk your way out of low-self esteem or regret or shame or guilt is really hard. So my brother and I decided we needed to quantify the goal in some way. We made a pact that every time we thought something bad about ourselves we'd try to think of one good thing too. Like, "I hate my thighs…but I love my clavicles!" Or, "God that was a stupid thing I said to X…but I made Y laugh so hard she did an actual spit-take!"
@Clare: I want you to have your way with me and then kick my ass to the curb.
LW1: I've been in your position, lady, and it's hard, but don't wait to be "normal" (you are! there is no such thing as normal, unless everyone is normal) to start enjoying life, because you will miss out on so much! From experience, even after I lost the weight (at least partly the side effect of a certain medication, which really I don't recommend), I still always find things that I could "fix" about myself…it's a slippery slope, basically. It takes a long time, but you CAN get to the point where you can say "goddamn, I am fucking AWESOME". I recommend saying it in the mirror every morning.
Also, the thing I realised when I started having sexytimes is that yes, everyone's got imperfections. Just because you don't look like Adriana Lima or whoever doesn't mean people aren't going to want you. It's like, they're already naked with you, clearly they're attracted to you, tummy fat or stretch marks or whatever. If everyone was adverse to sleeping with not-perfect people, not one single person would ever get laid. Trust.
I hate every single one of you who, like me, have stretch marks and your s/o's and hook-up's, bf's and whatnot have never said anything and/or say positive things (like tiger stripes!)
Because the last 2 long-term relationships I've been in, the guy has said to me (at least once) when seeing my stretch marks 'Oh my god! What happened to you?!
@ReginaSavage "I grew tits/an ass/am no longer twelve. Would you prefer I hadn't?"
@ReginaSavage I will say it forever until there is no breath left in my body: Their problem, not yours. I hope you dumped their asses on the spot.
@ReginaSavage @kayjay I totally second this.
@ReginaSavage: I think it was noted above that guys don't get stretchmarks as often as teh ladies. I'm a guy, and I have stretchmarks, so I know what they are. It sounds to me like your fellow really DID NOT KNOW what he was looking at. To someone who doesn't know what a stretchmark is/looks like, the immediate reaction would be, "WHAT CLAWED YOU?" In other words, I don't think he was trying to make you feel bad or goose any body issues you might have about your 'marks. FWIW.
@purefog: This explanation works in only one case because he was a complete and utter ignoramus and only ever dated "perfect" girls before me. In the second, the dude in question is 20 years older than me and had a kid with his ex-wife, so I'm SURE he knows what stretch marks are and has seen them before firsthand.
LW3: DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT SHARE YOUR VIEW ON CHILDREN. Period.
@charizard I think that stands to reason, what with that whole thing about how the best way to get pregnant is to, you know, have sex.
@kayjay the best way, but not the ONLY way.
@rararuby Indeed. That's why I said "best"!
Lady #2: I dated basically this guy. It was a big mistake, and luckily, it was the shortest relationship I've ever been in. Your misgivings are correct. Don't feel bad for feeling like you can do better – you can, and you will be much happier for it.
Great advice. I feel like everything I have to say pretty much just reiterates it, but with 50% more vibrators.
1. A Lady gave you some great advice. What it boils down to is you can't use losing weight as a means to fix your issues with yourself. Being thin will not solve them. Weight loss can become addictive in the same way a bigger house or nicer car becomes addictive. If you are not ready to live your life and love yourself, a smaller body will not bring it for you. The same insecurities will remain (and possibly become worse, because you've focused on your weight and size in order to shrink it), and find other ways to sabotage you.
Live life first. Live a life that involves friendship and love and movement and doing things and being yourself. Pretend you love yourself until you really do. Love other people who love you. Eventually it will come together, and maybe you'll find your body as well as your mind will change along the way.
2. I have so much trouble here telling whether you are hung up on what other people think of your relationship versus whether this guy is just never going to be the guy for you, and it's time to move on. The only piece of advice I can throw at you is to remember that just because you've dated a bunch of self-important dicks who don't treat you right doesn't mean there aren't plenty of men who will. If you go out believing that respect is the #1 ironclad requirement and everything else flows from there, you'll be rid of most of the jerks pretty quickly and will almost certainly eventually find someone who hits #1 but also has other traits you really care about in a person, such as similar interest or a similar goal in life. But start moving on and start by ruling out anyone who doesn't treat you right.
3. This makes me full of ow. I am pretty avowedly child-free and yet I still ache for you. The situation sucks and I agree that sleeping with him will only make it more painful in the long run. It could close you off to meeting the right guy for you to make babies with, or it could end up even more heartbreak when he leaves your sort-of relationship because he's found someone else who wants him and his vasectomy.
If you are as sure as he does about your baby-making choices, then you both need some serious space for awhile. I think this is one of those relationships that years from now you will look back on fondly, perhaps even over coffee or lunch once in awhile, and realize that in another life it could have worked out well but aren't you glad you moved on to the life that you wanted. But for now? You need space (and maybe a vibrator… but everyone always needs those).
"The less oxytocin this man makes surge through your veins, the easier it will be to move on."
Oh, Lady. thanks for the reminder. Writing it on a post-it and hanging it on the bathroom mirror now.
Oh #1, I hope you can start living your life soon. It's totally waiting for you no matter what size you are. I have yet to meet a man or woman who even noticed any stretch marks or if they did, it certainly was not a deterrent or topic for discussion. It just doesn't come up in sexy time. And if it did come up, well, I call that natural asshole selection. The universe is just telling you to find someone better who sees your beauty.
Grad school girl. GIRL. Stop worrying about your friends or your difference in status. If I sat around waiting for a man with all my degrees, my ladyparts would dry up. Life is short. If you're having rad sex with a man who adores you, with whom you can conversate, and I repeat, who adores you, what more… are you looking for? Might be time to look inside at what's going on there.
@FoxyRoxy Having someone else adore you is not the be all/end all of a relationship. It's pretty crucial to adore him too, and there's nothing in her letter to suggest that she does.
@thebestjasmine I absolutely agree. But she seems to like him quite well beyond her misgivings about his lifestyle. Mutuality is key.
I have stretch marks, in high school I weighed about 235 on my 5'3 frame. My advice–hook up/date/sleep with someone who a) has stretch marks as well b) doesn't care. The first time I took my shirt and bra off for a guy I was super self-conscious and demanded if the lights were on so was my shirt. My stretch marks are so old and are so big that you can feel the indents on my skin. When we were basically done the guy flat out asked me why do I not like my stomach and I just said because I'm overweight and have stretch marks and he just stared at me blankly and said but you are so beautiful. I think that is when I stopped really caring, when I noticed that most guys–or at least the good ones don't notice or don't care.
Also, I live in Ecuador and have seen many people in their swimsuits and even girls who could very well be models have stretch marks or some imperfection on their skin. I think imperfections are what makes us beautiful.
@dg Oh yeah! That was my other thought — #1 should make a point of looking at people's bodies. Go to the beach or the gym or the internet, and check out what people look like. It is FASCINATING.
@Lily Rowan The locker room at yoga class! Especially the older ladies who can do poses I can't even imagine attempting, and have sagging skin and stretchmarks and cellulite. Bodies are pretty amazing things.
LW1: If you're having fun naked time with someone for the first time, something that quells anxiety about body issues for me is to turn the lights off and/or light yourself a nice sexy candle, at least at first! Not that anyone should have to hide their body from who they're fucking, but I know it's a lot easier for me to get off if I'm not worrying if he is staring at my bacne, cellulite, or flabby stomach (I know these things are normal blah blah and fuck him if he actually cares about these kind of body imperfections, but if these things don't enter my mind and all I'm thinking about is how awesome whatever he's doing is, GREAT). This is especially true if if this person is someone I've only been on a couple dates with, because generally I don't have the confidence to rip my clothes off and bare everything in front of someone I've probably spent <6 hours with total. If sexy time turns into a real relationship he's going to see you naked in bright, unflattering light at some point (because yay shower sex!), but it might be easier to ease into the whole OMG I'M SO NAKED IN FRONT OF THIS PERSON'S EYES thing gradually. Also, everyone looks good in candlelight.
@AlwaysHaveToGo
Agree with this a million times. Good, practical, advice
Candlelight or xmas lights, in my opinion are amaaaazing! But then there's also the "nothing better than being gross and sick with the flu/having a huge zit/some acne/bags under your eyes and still being loved"!
@AlwaysHaveToGo Yes! It doesn't have to be body-hiding lighting.. it's MOOOOOOD lighting *bow chica bow wowww*
…."the piece of shit at the center of the universe." omg. Life changing. Also, this lady gave good answers, I thought.
@nerds I know, right? When I read that I thought, "Oh hey. That's ME!"
@nerds yeah, I needed to hear that, too. Tough love, but it's absolutely true.
"Try to step outside of that small space where you feel like all anyone will notice about you is whatever you're currently loathing about yourself. And remind yourself as often as you need to that this IS normal life, and you don't have to earn permission to start living it."
I feel like this is maybe the best advice anyone could ever give anyone, ever.
@jenergy Flip side to the bad mom-isms. As a teenager, one of the best things my mom said to me was "Why are you so terrified about what people think about you? Don't you realize that they're all just terrified about the way they come across that they don't even notice what you're worried about in yourself?" Basically, no one cares! Live your life and ignore the noise.
I figured I would provide some follow-up as LW#3. Unfortunatly the advice came a little late and I did sleep with him…like a lot. And you ALL were right! It was a bad mistake. Continuing the sex has only made this breakup drag out another 2 months. It feels almost like a band-aid…it covers the hurt, but it never heals. Big thanks to A Lady for hitting the nail on the head with her advice. I'm taking it now and ending it for good. You are all so very very wise. Time to move on.
@MandiM Thanks for updating! Sorry the breakup dragged out… been there, done that, and it is no bueno. Why is it that I know no one – literally, no one, I haven't even HEARD of someone – continuing a sexual relationship with their ex and having it end sanely, yet it always seems like this logical solution. My advice (before seeing this) was to actually not see him at all for a few months, to get some distance. Hope you're feeling better!
@Megoon Aw thanks so much! I read the hairpin every single day at work and I have never posted or commented on anything until now. Why did I ever wait so long??? Everyone is so caring and SO smart! It's like a huge group of girlfriends that give you wonderful advice. Several of my friends told me not to do it, but hearing it from about 50 all at once makes it sink in a little better
I think when you're in that moment, whatever it may be,you can't really see things clearly and your hurt can cloud your judgement. I've also learned that breakups are hard and they are supposed to hurt if you really care about someone.
I relate so much to LW1 that the lovely advice you all gave made me CRY and I never comment on sites but I just want to say how wonderful everyone here is.
I also feel compelled to mention that I once dated a superhot guy who, while just seriously awful in many ways, never stopped telling me how much he loved the things I hated about my body: my fat ass, my squashy stomach, the birthmark on my hip, even the marks on my face from scratching at my chicken pox. It was nice, even though he sucked in, god, just every other conceivable way.
Okay I seriously feel like maybe this set of advice was sent from ~*god or something because I am 115 pounds, 5'9", and I have STRETCH MARKS. I discovered them for the first time yesterday and have been mildly freaking out about them. So everyone gets them. Its not a big deal. That skinny girl you saw at the mall with the "perfect body" definitely has them so try not to give a fuck
@roughe Interesting.
LW#2 should probably dump her boyfriend. Not because he's a classic loser and not because she's a shallow asshole, but because they are pretty clearly not right for each other right now. The worst that could happen is she realizes too late she has made a terrible mistake and he has moved on. But at least that way the only person being hurt is her, because regardless of his uneducated, stonery ways, this guy deserves better than hanging around waiting for his girlfriend to decide he's good enough for her. Set him free! And maybe start looking for nicer grad school types? They are out there, I promise.
I had my twins when I was 19 & was left with the most stretch marks ever. My stomach was like a deflated balloon, you know when they get spit inside & then get crunchy and shrivel up…
To top it off I was a single mom & worried that not only would guys not like me bc I had kids, but would also think I was just hideous.
It turned out, though, that over the past 11 years I've had several relationships – whether short term or long term – and NOBODY ever made fun of me (or rejected me based on having kids). As cruel as so much of the world can be, it seems that there are still some decent people out there. <3
LW#1: Oh hon. I've had/have this mentality, "when I loose the weight, I'm going to do xyz". You have to live your life and love yourself! Life is going to pass you by whether you're fat, thin or anywhere in between. A good friend who had lost a lot of weight once said "I lost all the weight and I realized that I was the same person that I was before, just less fat". So, love yourself, and have fun!
Letter writer #1: I feel like I need to echo what so many people have already said here because I know how you feel. For years and years, I thought I'd start living and really doing things once I lost weight (even if that wasn't how I said it to myself), and I was embarrassed about my body and terrified of dating (and any number of other things) because of how judged I thought I'd be. But you don't have to feel that way. I finally got over it just by starting to do things – like dating. I was getting older and didn't want to miss my life, so as horrified and anxiety-ridden as I felt about it, I went on dates, and guess what? Guys liked me! Not all of them, but a whole hell of a lot of them. And I was not just a little chunky; I was a size 18 or 20. I discovered that plenty of people are not obsessed with this idea of perfection and that I didn't have to conform to it. (Some people are obsessed – they are often jerks, so you know, not the biggest loss.) When I finally started really loving myself AS I AM and enjoying my life and engaging in it, guess what I could finally do? Start losing weight. Because it's about being happier and healthier instead of about trying to conform to some ideal and feeling bad that I don't yet. Love yourself! You deserve it. Also, literally everyone over the age of 20 has stretch marks.
Letter writer #2: I think you can boil it down to something even more simple than your different levels of education/ambition. He's a chronic pot smoker. Dump him. He has a problem; it's a dependency on a drug – maybe not a bad drug and maybe not a chemical dependency – but if he has to wake and bake and smoke before sleeping, he is using pot to suppress something. It could be depression or anxiety or boredom, but it's something; and it's a big deal.
I dated a chronic pot smoker for over a year. He was smart and sweet and funny, and I spent months telling myself his smoking wasn't a big deal. But it was. As much as I didn't want to see it, he was self-medicating depression and opting out of really engaging in his life. And those were all things I couldn't make a life with. Mostly the problem was that his choice wasn't my choice. That wasn't how I wanted to live. It sounds like it's not really how you want to live either. So let him go. It's okay. And you'll find someone who is a better fit for you.
I cannot imagine giving up the love of my life so I could pop out a baby. I mean some people can and we're all different, but I look at that and think, what a stupid deal breaker. She's going to think about this guy the rest of her life and probably make some really bad decisions because of it, and does she really want to have a kid with someone ELSE who's not going to measure up? I know it's harder for some people than it is for me, but a nice really good long think might help here. WHAT does she want this baby for that staying with the love of her life can't also provide? If you're doing it right, a romantic relationship can give you the same experience (only better in my opinion):
-loving someone more than you love yourself
-caring for another person (when they are sick, or if you're lucky, when they get old)
-seeing another person bring the best qualities out in you
-making the world a better place through your love of another person
-bring you unimaginable joy, laughter, and companionship
-learning and growing alongside another human being
-Having someone be totally dedicated to you and dependent on you to be there for them
I mean, if changing diapers and bringing pizza to soccer practice is what is going to make your life complete then go for it, but is that *really* the absence you feel? Most people have kids to fill a void and realize too late that it doesn't. At all.
@selasphorus If your entire view of motherhood is "popping out a baby" changing diapers and bringing pizza to soccer practice, then it's no wonder that you feel this way. Many people realize that motherhood is a lot more than that, though, and so for them, then yes, it is the right answer to give up a relationship when you know that the person you are with can't give you what you really want.
@selasphorus Maybe it sounds crazy to you but some people are truly meant to be mothers. Having a child isn't about "filling a void" or soccer practice. I cannot imagine giving up having a child for a relationship.
Lady #1: Google "Kate Harding: The Fantasy of Being Thin" then Google "Shapely Prose Archive." Then plunk yourself down and read. Read read read.
And it is true. You can be fat with stretch marks and have remarkable sex in any number of terrific places. Thus do I witness.
@LateyKatie Excellent recommendations.
@LateyKatie agreed! this was my first thought reading that letter as well.
This lady is my favorite lady so far.
Lady#1: Maybe things are different with boys and girls but my boyfriend lost a bunch of weight and has stretch marks and I find them kind of sexy. Like scars?
LW1, this Lady and a bunch of the commenters have said exactly what I would say, especially with using exercise not as a negative weight loss thing but as an additive strength and muscle building thing. I wanted to throw roller derby into that mix because the number one reason I got into it was that I am overweight and saw girls my size and bigger on the track kicking ass and taking names. There's such a range of experience and body type and age in roller derby; some people are super athletic and have been skating all their lives, one way or another, and some people (me) haven't enjoyed any kind of sport before, and everyone inbetween. I mean if contact sports and wheels aren't your thing, obvs probably not a good pick for you, but it's the only exercise I've found so far that I enjoy enough to not notice I'm getting exercise until it's too late. Also, this is the first time ever I've thought of my body as a kickass tool I can use, rather than an aesthetic flabdisaster I'm burdened with. (Also I am still the same body type, which might change but probably won't, and I'm starting to be okay with that.)
Also, for all the things that you hate about your body, there is someone out there who will love it for exactly those things. < /rule34 > I am also haunted by the thought that "I have never been young and beautiful", and it has taken a lot of time to realize this is total bullshit. You can do all these things NOW! We are all rooting for you! <3
@AmbiSinister Well said–and cheers to roller derby!
@AmbiSinister I watched my first roller derby match recently and it was such an incredible experience! Like you said, some girls looked like "typical" athletes, skinny and hard, and some girls were bigger and some girls were in between, and they were all kicking serious ass. I'm almost tempted to join a league.
@AmbiSinister I was coming here to post about roller derby! I have never been so motivated to get strong and up my speed and endurance. I even do pushups, on my own time. I fuckin hate pushups, but I know that doing them will help me get up faster after a fall. And hooray for women of all sizes kicking ass! Derby <3
@AmbiSinister My thoughts also! My team (which is in no way uniformly sized) skates in booty shorts and everyone looks gorgeous doing it. Also, there is a cool kind of body confidence that comes from knowing I can make my feet do x thing while wearing lead weights with wheels strapped to them — even when sometimes that thing is 'trip me and make me fall down three stairs.'
(I also feel the same way about mastering difficult knitting techniques so there are, you know, options, if contact sports are not your thing.)
Lady, you are my favorite of the Ladies I've read so far. (Which is kind of a lot, although maybe not all, after that one weekend I spent mainly in my pajamas doing almost nothing but exploring The Hairpin.) Great perspectives and really kind advice.
@MissT123 This Lady has the perfect combination of level-headedness and humor without being flippant. Love it!
@saraphonic Exactly! Not that the others aren't spit-take-inducing funny and usually solid in their advice. But I appreciated the change of tone.
wtf did you just say 'oh dip' !?!?! who are you and where did you pick that up. i need to know.
I just kicked a guy to the curb because of similar problems I was having with him (lady #2). He's a super nice guy with a lot to offer the right girl, and I know he'll find her, but that girl is not me. I feel like I did him a favor by nipping it in the bud before he got too attached. Regardless, if a dude embarrasses you by just opening his mouth, do him and yourself a favor by ending it. It's only fair…but perhaps having him around doting on you is good for your ego? Be cool. Break it off.
As a former chunky girl, I can totally understand where questioner #1 is coming from. Those stretch marks are there for life and it's awkward to "introduce" them to a new guy. I know it's really hard to do, but just try to ignore them. The best things you can do are (1) take relationships slow and (2) fool around in the semi-dark for at least the first couple times. By the time he sees them in blinding light he'll already "know" your body enough that it will hardly matter. After months of dating I noticed my boyfriend running his fingers along some stretch marks on my side and I pushed his hand away and told him that I hate them. He responded that he really liked them because they were unique. He calls them my "tiger stripes" to this day, which I think is a nice spin on it.
LW#3 – I'm in a not wholly dissimilar position from you. My partner of two years already has two kids, and while when we first met, I wasn't sure about the kid issue, by the time we actually DID get together, I had come to realize that kids were absolutely going to be a part of my life.
Unfortunately/fortunately, my BF knew himself very well, and had had a vasectomy before we had met. Over the months and a series of conversations (some of them being initiated by me, drunk, busting out with such non sequitors as You know what? Dammit, I want kids someday), we each came to a greater understanding of ourselves and each other, and we're currently in a place where we've each realized that compromise is possible, that what we each want/love isn't necessarily the bump-watch/push/nurse/toddle, but is, instead, a foster kid, well-on in years. Or foster kids.
It helps that I'm actually adopted and don't really feel the physical yearning for the pregnancy/birth experience – which I totally understand a lot of women do really experience. But both me and my partner are more than okay, are actually excited about, bringing a kid into our home that needs a couple of really rad adults, but doesn't actually need gestation or diaper-changing.
If that conversation sends him running from the room, though, or if either of you can't ever imagine loving a kid like that, don't sleep with him. You'll be delaying the inevitable in the most painful/wonderful/unendingly terrible way. Good luck.