Don't Do This No. 2: Validating With Purpose
So, hi! This week we have more of a "Do This" than a "Don't Do This." I'm sure you can hang with that? We're going to learn a magic conversational/emotional trick, which is: validating someone's experience or feelings without feeling like you've been backed into agreeing with them or their choices (or disagreeing, I suppose).
More and more I've learned that people will ask you to validate their feelings about something they've done or want to do, or about something that already happened (EXCEPT Y'ALL!! unless you want to send your burning etiquette questions here). And even if I'm falling out of my chair to tell them what's WHAT, it doesn't make me a very good friend to do that. When might you/I want to respond differently?
- OK, do you have That Friend? You know. That Friend who keeps doing dumb things, getting dumb results, and complaining to you about it. We all have That Friend. And you've tried a million ways to break out of these conversations and try to get somewhere — to get through to her, or to steer the conversation away from whatever the train wreck of the week is — but it doesn't seem to be working. OK!
- Or maybe (as I have discussed previously) someone you know is making a really catastrophically bad choice.
- Or you're in an argument with someone who's done something awful or won't take responsibility for his behavior and you're both angry and not getting anywhere.
- Or you just don't know what to say, because whatever she's laying down is something you don't understand or really Get. (I'm thinking specifically here of when someone you care about has had some awful, catastrophic thing happen to them: a loved one has died or something really terrible has happened.)
How can you respond to this person without giving advice or taking a position or resorting to talking about yourself?
The trick is basically this: when someone says something about their experience or their feelings, sometimes the best thing to do is to describe it back to them before you share any personal response or opinion. I actually think that a big part of being A Good Listener comes from being able to do this. And maybe you're a little skeptical slash maybe it feels a little obvious or dumb to actually do it. I Get You, girl. It can feel a little silly. But it totally works!
There are a few ways to go about this. One is to actually observe how someone's voice sounds, how she looks, what expression she has, what her body is telling you. This can be a good one when you're in a position where YOUR feelings really matter — like you're in an argument or a disagreement in which you have something at stake. You can change the direction of the conversation by just describing what you see and hear. "You sound really frustrated about the situation." "I can tell that you're upset because your shoulders look really tense." "You look sad." "You sound angry. I can tell by your tone that you're really mad at [me, you, everyone we know! ha! li'l Miranda July joke there!]" It's sort of like holding a mirror up to them, which sometimes helps people who are all het up to pause and take stock. But more than that, being able to see that you see them often feels like a gift to people, like a profound relief.
A second way to validate is by telling them what you hear them saying — by actually repeating and rephrasing what you think you've heard. Sometimes you don't understand what someone means and so checking in about it gives them a chance to go back and try again before the conversation charges off in the COMPLETELY WRONG DIRECTION. It also makes them feel like you're really paying attention. You can preface your rephrase with "What I hear you saying is," which feels kind of cheesy but I find gets people's attention. Maybe it would be like this: "So I hear you saying that when I ate the last plum in the ice box, you really felt deeply betrayed."
A third way to validate, especially if you're trying to move the conversation along in one way or another, is to sort of imagine how they might feel and then tell them about it. Like, "I imagine you probably feel pretty lonely after dinosaurs ate your entire family." Or "I would be really scared if I just found out that red M&Ms contain rat poison [REMEMBER THAT? The 1980s were a scary time] and I'd been eating them by the handful for years. Are you scared?"
And yes, I 100% understand that when I describe these things to you they probably sound completely stupid. But they really work, and you might notice that none of them include an opinion of any kind or concession or an agreement. I have been practicing these strategies in a sort of sheepish way, and one day a couple weeks ago the following conversation happened:
FRIEND: I haven't gotten into any of the grad schools I applied to and I'm waiting to hear from two more, but I'm pretty sure they are going to be rejections.
ME: [thinking about all the things I could say, like 'That really sucks!' or 'I'm sure it will work out!' or 'Okay, but why did you wait until the last minute to apply? What did you expect?', then deciding on]: You sound really sad. That must be really, really disappointing.
FRIEND: [pause] Yeah, you know something? It totally IS and you're the only person who's said that.
ME: [totally floored that this stupid shit actually works] Well, I can imagine it must be hard to feel like you put a lot of effort into this and it isn't panning out.
I didn't tell her it would be fine — for all I know, it won't be. And I didn't Monday-night-quarterback her earlier decisions — she'll take whatever lessons she wants to. All I did was tell her what I heard and how I imagined she might feel. It's hard for me to tell you what to say next, of course, because we aren't all reading from my scripts all the time. (BUT I WISH WE WERE!!1!!) I know that validating someone in this way can interrupt and redirect hard conversations, and it can also make people feel heard and seen, and maybe feel a little safer and better equipped to hear what you have to say next. It also gives you a little more time to think. But if you're burning up inside with an opinion, then you can just ask "would you like to know what I think?" That's a game-changer, too.
Previously: Don't Do This No. 1: Popping the Popped Question.
Simone Eastman is a cat lady.
Simone, it sounds like this is an important issue for you.
Thank you for the william carlos williams reference.
But was the plum delicious? Cause then it was totally worth it!
They were, sweet and cold.
But not as tasty as the chicken à la brouette rouge!
CHANDLER AND MONICA CHANDLER AND MONICAAAAAA!!
MY EYES!!! MY EYES!
I'll take "she" over "ze" any day.
Thumbs down.
You could have picked a less phallocentric hand gesture.
Sorry, I am probably not going to stop using gender-neutral pronouns. You don't like them. That's fine, lots of people don't. But despite the many things about which I am not serious and sincere, I am pretty serious/sincere about being inclusive and sensitive, even if it seems silly to others. So. You know. There's your notice that you can just skip my column if it bothers you.
Hi, I'm genderqueer, and I appreciate it. Sorry you have to deal with a slight huh-that's-kind-of-weird feeling when you read an article online. I imagine that must be hard for you.
Lemme try: "I'd imagine you feel totally jazzed that now you won't have to go to GRAD SCHOOL, seriously."
Is that right?
Or: "Grad school helps 1% of people get a job, so consider yourself $40k richer!"
fucking seriously on the 1% 40k. uuuuuuuuhhhhhhggggg
"womp womp" – a current grad student
Seriously. As someone currently suffering through grad school, this is one of those rare occasions when I would bust out with "CONGRATULATIONS!!"
In English class in HS we were going around interpreting that poema and my friend and I said that we thought "This is Just to Say" was a sweet poem. Like… the speaker had a close relationship, so he ate the plums with the expectation of forgiveness- the sort of simple crossing of boundaries one has with close friends, family and lovers. My teacher then looked at us and said, "well I guess you are both doormats!".
Some quality public school education right there. I don't care what anyone else says, I still think its a sweet poem. It conveys a sunlit skylighted parisian garret to me, with the speaker seeing these perfect plums, while his lover is asleep on the futon, and he eats them, leaves the note, and slips out to get her a croissant and the paper. And when she wakes up she's amused. AMUSED, and confident he's coming back, with the PAPER. Doormat that!
I agree.
I want to feel that way! But it's less sweet when you know the poem was also a kind-of apology for all the affairs WCW had with his students, and when you read his wife's reply:
Reply
(crumped on her desk)
Dear Bill: I've made a
couple of sandwiches for you.
In the ice-box you'll find
blue-berries–a cup of grapefruit
a glass of cold coffee.
On the stove is the tea-pot
with enough tea leaves
for you to make tea if you
prefer–Just light the gas–
boil the water and put it in the tea
Plenty of bread in the bread-box
and butter and eggs–
I didn't know just what to
make for you. Several people
called up about office hours–
See you later. Love. Floss.
Please switch off the telephone.
I felt the same exact way about this poem.
I hadn't thought of it this way, but that's very sweet.
and cold
Would you still feel that way if, say, the plums or equivalent object(s) had been a gift to the person who the note was addressed to, from the person writing it? Because, my "friend" did that one time, including a tribute/ripoff poem. "She" thought it was hilarious, but I'm pretty sure the other person just wanted their special gingerale back.
Obvious perhaps, but only when laid out so succinctly. I need to use this on my husband, my THAT FRIEND, my mom, etc. THANK YOU! ! !
This is exactly how the child-rearing books tell you to talk to toddlers!
Dr. Karp's “fast food rule”!
This is how we talk to toddlers in my preschool class! Sometimes I find it slipping into friend conversations, and it totally works. "That must make you upset" does make people feel better, and "It's ok to be upset" does make people feel better when, say, they're beating themselves up for not being over a relationship… not that I did that to my roommate last night or anything.
It warms my heart to know a Hairpin reader is teaching preschool. I will imagine you are my daughter's preschool teacher now.
This is how I talk to my kindergarten class! When I notice it creeping over to my friends I am worried it sounds patronizing, but so far no one has flown off the handle.
SIde note, I find myself carrying over more and more kindergarten phrases… "woopsies!" is the new "dammit."
I think the "you sound" or "i imagine you are" can be a little dangerous – you have to be really good at reading a person. Also, sometimes people can be insulted when you tell them you think they're miserable or angry or whatever.
that's why i tend to go with, "it sounds to ME like you're feeling…", particularly when someone is angry. that way, worst case scenario, i just come off in need of correction (which is often instructive!), rather than presumptuous and emotionally dense.
It always has to be about you, doesn't it.
Especially in an unpleasant conversation. Whenever someone tries to tell me in an argument that I seem X or sound Y, my hackles automatically raise.
I imagine you're a little bristly, but totally in a good way!
Especially if you are in the 'argument with someone who's done something awful' situation; "I imagine you feel like a giant asshole right now…"
Thiiiis is what really good group therapy looks like. It sounds ridiculous but it really does work, and after enough time it gets the other party to start asking the same questions of you, and then everyone's needs are met and yay!
Putting on my slightly more professional hat, I don't know where Ms. Eastman found out about this technique, but this is a very nice summary of Reflective Listening 101. It's a highly effective strategy, and is common to many of the most validated one-on-one counseling modalities (lookit me, with the big words and jargon!), including motivational interviewing, intrinsic coaching, and more. And OMG I wish everybody grasped this kind of thing. It's so easy to knock people down (inadvertently, even) in some way when they tell you about a problem — by being dismissive, trying to solve it for them, etc. This is one of the best ways of being supportive. All it really requires is being just a little bit more focused on the other person in the conversation than on yourself.
That said, that other-focus is kind of a hurdle for way too many people in the world, sadly. But it's nice to see it promoted here.
This sounds like a really good date strategy too, like I am really listening to your story about hating your job and pursuing music full-time, and I GET IT, that must be a hard choice! Then they think you just get them and would be a good match… Yes, I will be trying this soon.
This is exactly how I talked to small children when I worked as a nanny. "I can see you want another cookie. That must be really hard."
I do want another cookie! It IS hard!! You understand.
When people talk to me like this, I just assume that they've been to a lot of counseling, went to social work school, lived in jamaica plain, or all three. (yes, most of these descriptions apply to me)
The people I know who talk like this are the same people who use "trigger" as a verb.
I prefer to have friends respond to me with what they are honestly thinking. If I talk to you about how I'm feeling about something, it's because I value your opinion, and want to hear it.
Always?
I think for many people, when they talk about how they are feeling, what they really want is to talk about how they are feeling. Maybe an opinion from the other person is good to hear, but maybe not.
(But I am totally thumbs-upping your first sentence.)
Generally, yes, I do want people to tell me. Also, because, even if you don't SAY that I'm being a complete idiot and instead give me counselor-speak platitudes, it will eventually come across that you think I'm being an idiot. So, it's better to me just to come out with it in the first place.
I'd add "communication majors" to that list as well.
I really hope your grad school applicant friend who took comfort in your "stupid shit" doesn't read this.
Wait, do you actually or are you just … ohhhhh, I see what you judged there!
Simone, I totally agree with the repeating back, especially if you might be entering a heated conversation. When you say, "I just want to make sure I understand you," and repeat back to them, you can actually see their body language relax in your favor.
But sometimes the person is just throwing a pity party that won't be derailed, or is an asshole looking to be difficult at all costs. Then you're screwed.
I agree that sometimes these techniques can feel forced & that, with close friends, it's sometimes better to just hear their unfiltered reactions. but my mom, for example, is a terrible perpetrator of the "I'm sure it will all be fine!" platitude re: situations that are both totally in flux & completely outside her control (i.e., "the surgeon is really worried that I may be developing this troubling medical condition," etc.). even though I know she means well, it's incredibly irritating.
if she actually said something like, "you sound really worried about this; it must be really difficult for you to deal with that uncertainty," I would (after getting over my complete & utter shock) feel HUGELY validated & appreciative. so I think if you're legitimately using these tools to help forge a connection with the other person, it can definitely be effective–but if you're just trying to tiptoe through a crappy conversation, that'll probably show through.
This is basically the summation of my two years in grad school for social work! Woo! Also whoops, I'm broke. Somebody sum that up for me…go!
I think you can do both successfully. Maybe what I failed to convet in a larger way is that I am absolutely sincere about this. I think it is powerful, useful, and compassionate. It can help us connext to each other. I ALSO think it can feel weird and makes me self-conscious to do it. It feels dumb, and I also know it works, and if I start out faking it, I usually end up meaning it. Does that make sense?
That was @ nonvolleyball!!
Ugh. This was really good but it made me sad, because I just went through this thing with my supposed best friend (of like, almost ten years, although most of those have been long distance), and neither of us did any of these things, which are really good suggestions. Mild shit storm ensued, prompted by me, of course
And to complicate matters, we live in different countries, so it's all most gchat during work. So I would actually appreciate advice, if anyone has any. She went through some rough shit, and then I went through some rough shit, which I felt particularly solitary during. I know this will sound lame, but during her thing, I didn't really feel needed. I generally don't feel needed, but I think I'm also just the needier one of the pair. And receiving unsatisfactory support from her (and others, but they are others), I felt like i had to say something. Because you can do that with friends, right? Right? Ugh.
I understand completely the need to feel needed. I'm going through something like that right now, and I'm having a hard time reminding myself this is not your thing, it's her thing to deal with how she wants, if she wants input, she'll ask.
yeah. but i compare our two situations (hers and mine, i mean). maybe she just assumes that i function in the same way as she, and if i need it, i'll ask. i just feel like if you know somebody for so long, you should be able to like, have some kind of idea of what to say or do instead of just leaving a friend to her own devices.
Oh man. I was just in this situation – and I was the friend that didn't support enough. I think I'm just more "independent" in that I just deal with things VERY privately and only ask for support when I'm really at a loss, so I assumed that my friend would say something if she needed the support. I mean, I knew she was going through some stuff but I didn't realize how desperate she felt and now I'm very sad that I didn't just ask. I didn't ask because I wanted to show that I think she is a capable, strong person who can deal with her stuff and reach out for support (which I would have then been very happy to give) when she needs to. She's my best friend and we're very close, but I didn't want to overstep my bounds with her and make it seem like I didn't think she could take care of herself.
yes! that's us. how did you fix it??
just try to be totally honest, i think, and tell her how you feel and why you feel the way you do. explaining *why* is key. and tell her you really love her and want to be bff's again, but this is how you feel.
also, hopefully you have gchat video? because if it's just gchat IM then i foresee a lot of miscommunication.
Ugh, I'm sorry, lady. I have instigated these shit storms before. You can totally be the olive brancher here, if you're willing to make a really careful apology. Um, maybe I should just devote a column to the artful/boundaried apology? My super-quick advice is that in these situations I find a way to say what I need to say, as kindly and as graciously as possible, and then let them decide how they want to react. Does that make sense? Like, do all you can do, and then let it go.
I was so happy to see this post. This has been on my mind a lot lately. I've been trying to respond differently to a friend, experimenting with things. It takes practice, but I've already seen positive results. I feel satisfied that I've expressed myself while at the same time being supportive. It's good to know that others are thinking about these things, too. Viva la validation!
i have THAT friend, but none of the solutions are of much help.
do you have advice for:
a) a different problem with THAT friend?
b) how i deal with not having advice for dealing with THAT friend?
I think dealing with THAT friend has a lot to do with kindly and firmly and graciously setting boundaries. Which will probably be another DON'T DO THIS. As might be gradually clearer to y'all, etiquette for me has less to do with social mores and expectations (there are many of both which I am explicitly uninterested in) and more to do with how to go about getting what you want and need with kindness and supporting other people graciously.
Yeah, I think a great follow up to this would be: after you've validated THAT friend's emotions, how do you move on constructively? Obviously you want to be their friend and that's why you're validating them, but you also want to make sure they understand that you're not going to be their perpetual-validator. How do you break it to them that they're being really stupid (constantly)?
Yeah, in general I think the validating trick is a great idea, but there has to be a point at which you stop validating and do… something. Because sometimes people genuinely do need advice. And sometimes, if they won't take that advice, it can be really hard to continue being their friend.
That's fair, y'all. I will think about this. Generally I think what you "do" is set boundaries with them and within yourself. Let me consider how to make that a teachable/demonstrable skill, okay?
I thought this was going to teach me how to get my parking validated efficiently…
Nothing in the whole world makes me more angry than having someone try to tell me how I'm feeling. I'm a non-violent person, but all three of these tactics, in the course of a brewing conflict, get me pretty close to throwing a punch.
As they say in AA, take what you like and leave the rest.
Oh, thank god, I thought I was the only one. I find it incredibly patronizing. Thank you, I know how I'm feeling, and also what I just said. If you have something actually useful to contribute, by all means, but if you're just going to repeat back what I just said and/or tell me how I am or should be reacting to something, it's going to be better for all of us if you just keep that shit to yourself.
So I totally love this column. This is great advice and I am going to use it!
I really needed this advice a few days ago. Dammit. I went with "I'M SURE EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE" which I'm certain was not useful (or correct…)
I can't believe spam has made its way to the hairpin!
lol @ "Look here…"
Oh my god, this is incredible to me. I just had a conversation with a friend about her recent troubles and I was asking her questions to flesh out the details and she kept telling me to stop giving her advice! And I thought, if I can't ask simple questions what am I supposed to say?!?! And I thought, I wish I could Ask a Dude or a Lady about this.
Thank you the Hairpin. Thank you.
I love this. This is great for in-general friendships too! Not just that friend! Thank you. I find this works really well to stop me from being that annoying older sister and be a friend to my little sister instead.