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Friday, January 28, 2011

73

Sexual Dominance, Virginity, and Do Vaginas Taste Like Pennies?

A friend once told me that vaginas taste like pennies. Do you think vaginas taste like pennies? If you could pick one thing a vagina tastes like, what would it be?

YOU'LL PUT ANYTHING IN THERE, AND ARE POOR
a play in one act by A Dude

Cast:

- A Dude whose mouth is full of pennies
- Some Other Entity

The ENTITY enters a dimly lit room to discover A DUDE sitting at a table. An empty ZIPLOC BAG is on the table in front of the Dude.

ENTITY: Yo Dude, can you believe the latest shit outta Davo — [pause] Wait a second. Is your mouth full of coins from your pathetic little change bag?

DUDE: Mrrphhawlab.

ENTITY: Seriously?

A Dude spits pennies onto the table.

DUDE: I'm researching an advice column to women, to be published on the Internet...

The ENTITY sighs.

ENTITY: Lemme guess. Shit don't pay?

DUDE: And someone wanted to know if pennies taste like vaginas.

ENTITY: So?

DUDE: I suppose I'd concede there is some resemblance. But the question of "how dat thing taste" is a really strange one, I've come to believe. Perhaps it's a function of how this is a fascination that's very much on the mind of newly-pubed middle school boys who have no empirical sense of the socio-erotic questions they should be asking ... but the entire curiosity of how vaginas taste seems akin to inquiring about the size of a painting — a sort of irrelevant category to consider when evaluating the totality of the phenomenon. Obviously there are a range of canvas sizes that are acceptable in terms of appreciating a painting. Too big or too small and you can't get a sense of the thing ...

ENTITY: Hey look I'm retroactively getting pretty interested in this magazine story about social networking that I left in the other room, so if you could wrap ...

DUDE: But as with the taste of any particular pussy, as long as the painting is in the big broad zone of the understandable/perceivable, its size is just not going to be the defining feature of the encounter. I think, speaking as a grown ass Oral-Loving Dude, one is much more interested in other specific-to-a-girl Aspects Of The Vagina like architecture and plumbing. Is gently nuzzling the inner vulva with the bridge of your nose a possibility when you're really going for broke? Can you find a way to be cutely affectionate and really distinct in response to how she's built while you're going down? If she is very very wet, can you learn how to use that in some way instead of just choking, because gasping for air is not sexy? These are the things a Dude who is actually present for oral sex is thinking about, more than "hey, 12-year-old-version-of-me! does this taste like something completely removed from the experience of this all being somehow part and parcel of this amazingly alluring woman?"

ENTITY: I hate our parents for making you. And for not giving us trust funds.

SCENE

So I've been "seeing" (i.e. boning) this guy for a couple weeks. I haven't gone down on him yet because I wasn't sure he'd reciprocate and that pisses me off. So tonight, he said "you're not too much of a feminist to go down on a guy, are you?" to which I responded truthfully that I'm not, DUH. I actually really enjoy it (but, I do have issues with people who feel it's perfectly fine for me to go down when they find the reverse unappealing). Then he goes, "good, because I'm too masculine to go down on a girl." UM, WHAT!? was my inner response although I'd sort of expected it since he hadn't made any moves (but was still kind of hoping he'd come around; he's a bit inexperienced/very young and I thought maybe he was just afraid to botch it). I told him that some dudes love it, at which point he told me some dudes are weird and asked if I'd ever done it (negative, for the record, which seemed to weaken my point in his eyes).

So here's my question: this is what I want, but I feel weird/manipulative holding BJs hostage in return for something he clearly isn't interested in/ready for. Is it unfair to pressure him like that? Plus, it's obviously no fun for me if he's gritting his teeth (so to speak) through the whole thing. But at this point I also don't want to give him a free ride on my mouth. Should I lose this guy or is there an appropriate and effective way to approach this? Oh, also, we work together. Also, is he gay? I have never encountered this before.

WELL. First? Too much of a feminist? I like to think of myself as a "male ally" in really the most humorless of Dude-Feminist fashions. I also really like a blowjob now and again. And since I was wary of defensively mainsplaining around this particular topic, I wound up googling "feminist blowjobs" before answering this question. Thankfully, the feminist blogosphere gave up a post by the fantastic Jill Filipovic (one of the many smart feminist bloggers this Dude reads frequently).

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/06/19/feminist-politics-of-blowjobs/

Her post has to do with some kind of blowjob-related Internet blog controversy–the originating posts of which appear to no longer be online–but nevertheless is pretty independently cogent on the score of how mutually respectful partners can start a conversation about de-patriarching the oral. (If they want to! Choices for everyone!)

But back to like the advice I guess? I don't even wanna execute a search for "too masculine to get face down in a vagina." Essentially, this is because you say this guy is young. I have no idea how old you are, nor what "very young" means to you–but I think you should a) try not to take this personally and b) blame it on his age. He doesn't know the gospel of vagina worship! He has not accepted the well-pleasured clit as his personal redeemer! That's cool. It calls to different men at different times. But even an inexperienced dude is aware of the power and mystery of the whole god-shaped vagina-kissing-hole in his soul–and can be a little bit scared by that emptiness in his repertoire. For all I know, your guy may have just recently figured out how to get his dick-swerve on, and he might want to stay within the realm of the familiar and be feeling that power for a while. Presumably you're into what he's capable of doing on that level, and so there's no immediate reason to boot him.

Still, his semi-hostile narrowness on the oral front obviously has the potential to bring you down in a comprehensive way over the long haul. Ultimately you'll want him to trust you enough to bust through his comfort zone and get down. There are ways you can help him through this, instead of turning it into a blowjob-withholding fight straight from the drop–especially since it seems you're significantly older, and since you like giving blowjobs. (SIDE NOTE: pretending not to like things that you actually do like will only make things more confusing for a young guy. Or hell, for lots of older guys, too. Avoid doing this, if at all possible.)

A guy who is told that other guys like things or can do things that he doesn't do in the bedroom will often react by calling those other guys "weird." Those other boys are the ones with the problem, got it? That's natural, because he's feeling inadequate. But you know what else is natural? Being sexually proud as fuck that you're with an older chick who TEACHES YOU THINGS IN THE BEDROOM. If you can turn him into that character, psychologically, he'll sign up for all the advanced placement tests. Has he met your older friends? Maybe he should! And maybe when you're all out for drinks, one of them can casually tell your boy-not-yet-a-man how impressed she is that he can hang with you. How he's really stepping up and being a man by vaulting from his age cohort and into yours. There are other ways to do this. You get the idea. You're going to solve the problem of repertoire-fear long before you solve the problem of men being entirely too much in thrall to their egos. But one outta two ain't bad.

I have always been curious to know whether all guys know that queefs are because of penis angle and that they aren't just a thing that happens all the time. Like, women don't walk around queefing all the time. I just want to make sure every man knows that.

Thanks, but I have also yet to meet a dude who cares about queefs. "Oh she hot, true — and that pussy tight — but you know it also be blowing like a factory whistle at 5, straight up and down" is a line of conversation that has NEVER EVER HAPPENED (even sotto voce, or within an internal monologue) in the history of men thinking about sex. Relax.

I am seeing a man who is funny, sweet, creative and treats me like a princess but when it comes to sex he's just too...nice. I like it rough (very rough!) and need my men to order me around and hold me down, etc. I have been hinting around about this in and out of bed and responding quite appreciatively to any and every thing even approaching dominance, like even if he accidentally leans into me if we're on a crowded line for the movies. Any thing. Well, he's not really responding and I'm wondering how to drive the issue and the need home a bit more in a way that will not make him feel inadequate/will not scare him? Thanks!

The sad truth: there is a chance he is getting your signals. There's a chance he's also down to dominate. But the paradox is that it perhaps feels wrong — or just not authentically domineering — to respond to a prompt to dominate. This is an obviously frustrating and self-perpetuating paradox when it occurs. And it's also just the fucking truth. The more you induce him to dominate, the more he may retreat — reasoning that he can only truly take control at a surprise moment of his choosing. But if every night you're shredding your own panties mid-slumber — so desperate are you for him to rip every item of clothing you own from stem to stern! — his inspired moment may never, er, come.

If you feel VERY comfortable with this guy's moral center — i.e., if you trust his Male Ally bona fides on the Feminist tip — you might consider playing a little bit coy while making out. The next time he wants to really start in with the deep kissing (and provided that you do too), maybe stop at artificially shallow peck-kisses. See if he'll take the moment to grab your hair and bring you into a hotter, deeper thing. You want him to argue the point in his favor, with an assertive strength. If he does — and if you like the way he does it — that's the moment to say something about domination. Don't say "will you dominate me, right now? please? even better, put it on a calendar and think of it as a duty?" but rather: "oh, so you're dominating me?" And do it in that voice women have, wherein a line of text that could read as simply observational on the page takes on several additional layers of desire and stuff when spoken. That's incredibly hot when y'all do that.

If he wants to dominate you more after you say this to him, he will. If he doesn't, well, you might need to have an initially very-unsexy but very adult "direct conversation" about what everyone wants and is comfortable with. Maybe all he needs to know is that he has a longer leash than he thinks he has as an Officially Slightly Over-Cautious-At-All-Times Respecter of Women. But if you can navigate each other there in an actually erotic moment, that's even better.

One thing that guys could do, to be more attractive to women, is to be less cheap. If you know this could help you do better with women, why don't you stop being so cheap?

Hoo boy. This one's a wormhole of definitional relativity. If money is very very important to you, my advice is to not date poor dudes — and to be clear about that with everyone from the start. You will be called many bad things, but so is most everyone in the dating pool (at some point). And if we are talking about living and dating in an urban environment where things are pretty ridiculously expensive, you have to raise the definition of "poor" well above the official poverty index.

It is okay to care a lot about money, by the way, if you want. But it is cruel to have impossible-to-meet expectations while not being clear about them to yourself, or to your Dude. If, say, you are dating a dude who paid for half of his own college education and bridged the rest with loans he is still paying back — well, he may be a bad fit if all you want to do is go out and hit the clubs (i.e., if "not being cheap" means buying you lots of $13 cocktails in Manhattan).

A guy who never makes a move to pay for anything and quickly asks to borrow money isn't just being cheap — he's being unkind and probably isn't awesome in a variety of other ways that should be easy to ID. The money won't be the end of his cheapness, if you get my meaning! However, being responsible with money — even the little bit that you have — can be an attractive trait in adult relationships. If your dude is responsibly managing his expenditures by finding less expensive ways — really well-curated dates, say — to show you he cares, then I'm not sure he's being cheap. Rather than running up credit card debt to take you here and there, he might actually be scrutinizing his capital outlay now in order to put himself in a position to feel responsible about starting a family with the woman of his dreams. Basically, "cheapness" (which we can all agree isn't the most attractive trait) is probably tied to other behavior. Is he trying to "get over" on you in other ways? Is he generally selfish? Then there's your problem.

Is he thoughtful and empathetic in many other respects? If so, then he might be too poor for your taste, but not cheap. Though really, no matter what you do: also avoid rich dudes who are intensely, unaccountably selfish. Because you will be sorry.

So I am approaching my 25th birthday and am still a virgin. Like, zero experience, at all... ever. I heard it brought up that Tina Fey lost her virginity at the age of 24, so I don't feel too bad. But at least she is witty, and successful, whereas I only have good taste in online magazines. I am thinking that at some point the V-card becomes like the old maid card, something no one wants and you don't tell anyone you still have. But the only way to get rid of it is to trick someone. Probably while we are both drunk. So when I find someone and get him all liquored up, would it actually matter if I didn't say I was still a virgin? Because after if there is a problem I can just leave, right?

Or, how do you get a guy to sleep with you.

PS- this probably will require more balls than I actually have. Had I said balls, I might not be in this situation.

Oh, young woman who deserves a lot from life, take heart! The expiration date for the virginity-card is not 25. It's not even 45. (Though the ovary-card is a bit cashed out at the latter juncture.) Anyway, please don't feel time-pressure about losing your virginity as it applies to your sexual viability/desirability.

Can I be overshare-y for a second? I lost my virginity probably too early, at 13. I was proud of it a for a few years, until I realized that I had internalized some very immature ideas about how sex worked for me. Because I was 13 when it started, you see. A really great thing, though, is that you are not forever defined in the bedroom by the first steps you took to get there. The first time you have sex–let's say this year, since it seems you really want to!–you'll be the person who had sex for the first time when she was 25. Half an hour after it's over, you don't have to think of yourself that way first and foremost. You can be someone who wants to have sex with THIS PERSON WHO IS AMAZINGLY HARD ALREADY AGAIN half an hour after your first time. (It's always fun for both people when that's the way you are together.) Or whatever, the next morning, etc.

My wish for you? It's that you'd find someone you really dig, and with whom you feel can be honest before the first time. This isn't a strict prerequisite–plenty of people just get to it, sans excessive intro dialogue. If that happens organically for you, then great! But if you're artificially being silent about where you're coming from just because you're insecure about that place (and maybe worried that it will just scare off a dude), then you are putting yourself in a dangerous place. I think terrible dudes are secretly attuned to women who are doing this sort of thing, because they know they will be able to get away with awful behavior, since the women who behave this way will also likely feel insufficiently comfortable calling them out on it–or telling anyone else. It's disgusting. Besides, if you are feeling nervous about negotiating your way to a first encounter with someone you like, he'll take notice of that if he's not a total clod. He may even ask you about it. If that happens, that's a sign you don't have to lie, or get him lost in booze before he'll sleep with you. The drinking thing? Yes, it is a strategy. But it's not the only strategy available to a single person on this planet–believe that. Especially not for anyone who has so fine a taste in online magazines!

Previously: Asymmetrical Breasts, Strip Clubs, and Men Who Are Delicate Flowers.

A Dude is one of several rotating dudes who know everything. Do you have any questions for A Dude?



73 Comments / Post A Comment

insouciantlover

Pennies - copper
menstrual blood - coppery

Not the best time to have a face full of vagina, I'd wager.

MoonBat

Dude: while I appreciate that you're being kind and rather empathetic regarding the young guy from question 2, and I don't disagree with ALL of your response, "too masculine to go down on a girl" is a total deal breaker. As in, GET. OUT. NOW. Immature, posturing machismo is the exact opposite of sexy.

lafleur

So true. This is a sign of his other immature bullshit she'll have to put up with in the future.

boyofdestiny

You don't believe in giving a guy who might not know any better the benefit of the doubt/a second chance? We're all capable of learning and growing. When I was in high school, a girl dumped me because I said "Ew" when she told me she had her period. Which, you know, is her prerogative. But I was also 16, ie, a fool. Suffice it to say, I no long say or think "Ew" when the subject of menstruation comes up.

Isn't there a possibility that a guy who gets dumped immediately for saying something clueless about women is just going to have his clueless views about women galvanized? I know it's not each individual woman's responsibility to remove the entire male gender's head from its ass, but if this woman isn't going to inform this guy that going down on a girl doesn't really have anything to do with masculinity, who is? Certainly not the people who put that idea in his head in the first place.

cherrispryte

I disagree, BoD. The fact that he think of "masculine" as the opposite of "feminist" is a gigantic red flag in and of itself. On top of that, he expects to get head and not reciprocate? How ridiculously selfish. He needs a time-out to think about what he's done. And he sure as hell does not deserve a blowjob just because they're fun to give. DTMFA, and be perfectly clear in telling him why.

MoonBat

Exactly, boy. Cherri put it well. He's obviously aware that it is fun to receive oral, but finds it demeans his masculinity to give it. I feel certain that his desire to be the dominant masculine top to his submissive, non-feminist bottom is not restricted to only the bedroom. This isn't just a lack of experience or maturity. It's a fucked-up mindset.

boyofdestiny

We obviously don't have all the facts here, so it's all just assumptions that we're making. I personally don't feel comfortable with the dealbreaker mindset, where this particular attitude must speak to his entire character. We don't know that, and the questioner may not know it either. It might! I think the more responsible thing would be to find out if it does instead of assuming it does. I think it's reasonable to say that if the questioner has been fooling around with this dude for a few weeks, he's got some redeeming qualities. (I understand that those redeeming qualities might just be related to sex.) So why discard him completely without trying to change his mind?

I know it's important to keep your guard up for pricks, and I'm not saying this girl should be naive about the possibility that this guy actually is an asshole. I'm saying she shouldn't be so cynical as to immediately drop this guy based on one unenlightened utterance.

Then again, I'm the type of guy for whom sex is a precious and hard-to-come-by commodity, so the bar for me kicking someone out of bed is abnormally high.

Katie Walsh

Took the DTMFA right outta my mouth!

HelloTitty

But BoD, your own anecdote argues against your plaint. You learned your lesson so thoroughly precisely BECAUSE you got dumped for it (and rightly so). One trial learning my friend, it is much more powerful than the patient tutelage of whatever saint you think is going to do this jerk the favor of setting his mind right.

theinvisiblecunt

Staying with somebody for the sake of enlightening them sounds real noble and shit until you've been together for months/years and his/her opinion hasn't budged and suddenly you've become the dumbshit who thought s/he could "change someone"

boyofdestiny

Gah, new comments while I was writing!
@Hello: I wouldn't go as far as to say that I learned my lesson BECAUSE I got dumped. (Please trust me that this isn't revisionist history in service of a rhetorical point.) It was more just sort of general growing up, which I'll concede being dumped played something of a part in. And maybe this dude will grow up, too! But he also might not.

@invisible: I think we're talking about extremes here in both cases. As I said, I'm not expecting any given woman to be humanity's white night. It's a hassle! I think, however, that there can exist a middle ground between staying with someone for months past the expiration date in the hopes of "changing" them, and dumping them immediate because they said something wrongheaded.

saythatscool

@all + Liz Lemon: DEALBREAKERS!

winchesterwolcott

So...are you the Dude answering?

saythatscool

@winchester: You were asking BOD, right? Just in case you're asking me, the answer is no.

winchesterwolcott

@STC: I'll know the Dude=STC when all the answers involve Thai hookers.

saythatscool

@winchester: The answer is always Thai hookers.

boyofdestiny

@winchester: Sadly, I'm just a dude, not The Dude. Although I'd welcome his help down here. It appears I'm wildly outnumbered.

saythatscool

@BOD: In my experience, people who like to draw lines in their heads often make the poorest artists.

Tom Blunt

WTF, "Dude"? If the shoe was on the other foot, say you went home with a girl who expected guys to go down on her but that it was "weird" to give blowjobs, you'd take that on as a project?

MoonBat

True dat. If some chick told you that she wanted oral but would not reciprocate because she was "too feminist", I doubt you'd be all about understanding and patience.

bb
bb

BoD, I will come to your defense. I feel like dudes say and think a lot of really stupid stuff about sex due to bad training by other dumb dudes in the locker room, porn, movies, etc. YES, the "too masculine" thing makes it worse than if he just said 'I'm not into it" generally, but I still think he can be eventually talked into it, and then will like it. I will also add here that I am in my mid-30s and have slept with a fair number of people, and I find that basically every one (including women) needs to be a little bit instructed in the ways of eating pussy (sometimes just a few hints).

Hero of the Beach

Late to the party but @BoD, you're right that we don't know everything about this guy and he might well just need to grow up some, but that doesn't change the prescription, which is that nobody has the responsibility or requirement to educate their partner. Sometimes it is worth it to be invested in a person with difficult traits, but we all we know is that this guy has got a long road ahead of him before he's going to be a worthwhile sexual partner. I definitely hope he improves, but life is short, and it's just not her job to make him a better man.

MoonBat

Right. If the guy had ONLY said that he was too masculine to go down on her, that could be seen as uneducated and/or immature. BUT, remember, he asked her if she was "too feminist" for blowjobs. Sex should not be a power play (except, of course, when it involves STC and Thai hookers).

DoctorDisaster

Sorry, but this youth excuse doesn't fly for me. I can't think of any age where it would make sense or be OK to say that you're "too masculine" to go down on a girl. (Although the fact that the asker's immediate thought was "oh god is he gay" is beautiful irony.)

If he's truly terrified of screwing up and covering for it by refusing to push his boundaries, guess what? He's going to be shit in bed. We can dance around that all we want, but REALLY. If your way of coping with the unknown is to hide like a baby in your comfort zone, you're going to suck at pleasing women.

His comments, however, suggest that he thinks of this as a gender-political thing. DOMINANT MAN NO GO DOWN THERE etc. The fact that he even thinks that's a workable excuse suggests the dude is not worth bothering with for reasons well outside the bedroom. Fragile ego, embrace of backward gender roles, expecting something for nothing... need I go on?

That guy's pathetic and the lady would be better off without him. Sorry, Bod.

boyofdestiny

@Doc: You've got a Cal Ripken–like streak of blasting me in comments going. Let's find some common ground soon!

DoctorDisaster

If it makes you feel better, I think you're the patient buddha figure, willing to give any lost souls the benefit of the doubt. I'm the cackling cat-stroker whose minions sit in electrified chairs. You're a better person than I am!

(I'm still right though.)

MoonBat

I <3 your response so hard, DD. I think I jumped the gun on the whole "too young" thing with you. Forgive me?

polythenepam

Asker of question #2 here. For the record, this guy is 23 and I'm 25. Not exactly as Mrs. Robinson scenario. Plus I think 19 or so might be the cut off for acceptable lack of enthusiam re: going down. The masculinity comment was definitely a red flag with DTMFA written all over it, but then of course my next inclination that I'll be doing him and all the other women he sleeps with a HUGE favor by letting him know what's what, as some commenters had suggested. However, I ultimately decided he's not a nonprofit that I'm interning at. I figure maybe someone younger than him will be willing to put up with him and maybe they can work it out together.
I'm glad this got people discussing sexual power plays, etc-- you all brought up great points. Thanks for the advice.

Captain DuClark

Guy #2 = gay or serial killer. Run.

Also, ass pennies: http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=60669&title=ass-pennies

cloudburst

you ALL handle my ass pennies

lafleur

Excellent advice. And I find that a man who's not the least bit proud of causing a queef is one I'd not like to know.

City_Dater

Any guy who declares himself "too masculine" to give a woman pleasure really needs to dumped and told the reason why, immediately. The main reason there are so many assholes walking around is that some woman somewhere put up with their nonsense so they never learned to NOT be assholes.

cherrispryte

OMG who is this Dude I'm crazy about him.

piekin

agreed! marry me.

Snowy

Thirded! A Dude, you are such a sweetheart.

gimlet

Not so sold on the answer to question 2, but everything else was adorable.

Thank god, something finally eased my mind on my Queefing Tendency.

chunk lite

agreed! this is my favorite Dude so far!

Hero of the Beach

I want to be buds with this A Dude. You know what's up, A Dude.

blindcamel

Yes, this dude. Favorite. His answer to the first question was inspired. And even if I agree a bit with the dissenters about dumping the "too masculine" guy, I still think this dude is the best one yet.

JuiceBox

Agreed excellent advice also loved answer to first question.

Regarding 25yo virgin. I have a good friend who was 35 before she got around to getting P in her V. She had other issues to fry and kept men out of it. Issued got resolved she started dating and she found a great guy she trusted and boom, done. No big deal.

velcrosneakers

Aw, this Dude! More of him.

MollyculeTheory

Yes I love this Dude.

claudettecolbert

To the last writer, who wrote about virginity: Don't worry too much about it! I rather recently lost my virginity in my late 20s, and had been ashamed of it for years. I had also thought that my first time I'd have to be drunk, or that the guy would have to be, or that I'd have to be dishonest and pretend I'd had sex before. But I just ended up getting together, naturally, with a dude who was into me and who didn't seem like he would be too thrown by the whole "virginity" thing. I ended up being really, really glad that I was honest with him. And you know what else? I ended up being pretty glad I lost my virginity when I did. I know lots of people have sex earlier than I did, and some have really good experiences and some have not-so-good ones the first time, but I definitely know some girls who had sex before they knew much about what they liked, what would give them orgasms, etc. I was glad that by my first time, I knew some things about what I liked, and I'd heard enough about other people's first times to expect that my first time might be a bit awkward (but could also be fun and sweet), and that things would get better.

LivAnna

Thank you for sharing! It is reassuring to hear from people who went through what I am going through, and had a positive experience.

Goldie

I am so happy to hear these questions from fellow "late bloomers" (though I'm not a fan of the term). Honestly, its just nice to know there are others out there. Thanks, all, for sharing.

theinvisiblecunt

Prediction: column by An Oral-Loving Dude who knows the gospel of vagina worship will set new record for "My favorite A Dude!" posts, narrowly edging out that one by A Dude who kept hinting he had an enormous cock

velcrosneakers

I don't think I read that one. BRB.

insouciantlover

Yeah! Good ole big wang dude. Those were the days.

muzakfairy

I love this dude! thanks for livening up my friday at the office, dude...

beerd

Okay. I am a dude, and I registered for this darn site just to share my two cents with the lady virgin.

I remember having a conversation with a lady engineer. She said many nerds at her school suffered from a catch-22: they couldn’t get laid because they projected an overeager energy, an energy which would vanish if they just got laid. I doubt the truth of this particular magic, but it sounds kind of like the magic that worries you: “But the only way to get rid of it is to trick someone.”

So, maybe I’m wrong, but it sounds like you’re worried your virginity is a secret insecurity that’s become a subconscious cockblock. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m projecting, because I’ve been there. But here are my thoughts, from my very limited experience.

Virginity in the practical sense isn't really some magical line you cross and everything is different. It's about having a partner and exploring some bodies for a while. Getting drunk once and being like "I have been penetrated!" is not going to do much to reduce your insecurity next time around. It might make it worse.

Here’s a story. I lost my virginity in high school, then I carried a bunch of torches, and didn’t have sex again until I was 25, BECAUSE I WAS JUST AS AWKWARD AND AFRAID. Well, scratch that, I had a few one night stands at 22 in order to get rid of said imaginary curse. But in practical terms, to be smooth and un-nervous about sex, it takes some honest relationship sex. Which dudes in honest relationships are all about. In fact, you’ve kind of got a sexy thing there in that V-card. Everyone has a different hand of sexy cards: you’ve got one a lot of 24 year olds don’t. Play that fucking card, girl. “I’m a virgin but I’m not looking for anything serious, just some trusting, consensual sex?” I think that line will get you laid a lot harder than overloading a guy with beers.

So here’s what I suggest. Yes, it’s okay to change your standards depending on the relationship you need. If you just need to knock boots, whether it’s your first or thirty first, you might loosen the visa requirements. But don’t drop your standards as low as “drunken creepy awkward time.” (Heed this dude’s warning on that score.) Lower your standard to “attractive awesome guy whom I trust.” Have some fun. Then, you can return to hunting for “attractive, awesome guy whom I trust who also blows my mind and understands my little soul.” And you can feel prepared when you meet that guy. Don’t run into him full of baggage from an uncomfortable drunk first time.

Oh, also, let me betray the secrets of the underground brotherhood of non-virgins. The only secret you discover when you cross the boning threshold is that “THERE IS NO SECRET.” You’re like, shit, that’s it? I could do that. Minute to learn, lifetime to master.

Turns out there is no normal. Everyone is making this up as they go along.

Maybe I’m an idiot. I’m wrong about a lot of things and probably wrong about this. But them’s my thoughts.

mmwm

@beerd, your response is A Dude-like in its maturity and wisdom.

palliata

Ok to the girl who talked about guys needing to spend more money on her: Any woman for whom this is necessary is absolutely 100% off my list of girls to spend more than a night with. I do have money, but if you need to have some of mine to be attracted to me, you are everything that is wrong with male-female relationships.

This is exactly why females carry the burden of the material girl/gold digger stereotype - it's because there are women who think not spending all your money on them means you're "cheap." I tell you what. You spend money on me, and I'll spend money on you. That's reciprocity, and that's equality. I have no trouble spending money on you, buying you nice gifts, paying for dates, as long as you return the favor. If you're with me because I have the cash to buy you things, seek elsewhere.

kitten_witawip

There is a difference between being poor and being cheap. I think cheapness is having a "what's in it for me?" attitude. Whereas some one with not a lot of money might have a "I want both of us to have good time" attitude. This may also be the answer to the oral question too.

DoctorDisaster

That first response is absolutely classic.

hd
hd

Hey 25-year old virgin!

I was in exactly your position a year ago, and feeling pretty shitty about it. I literally made it my new year's resolution to get laid in 2010. It took me until about May, when I went out with some friends and did a bunch of tequila shots and met some Australian guy who was a friend of a friend (ie. probably not a total psycho who was going to take me home and kill me. that may have been a paranoia of mine). It was kind of a mess, without going into too many details, but we got the job done, and when I woke up at 6AM with a massive hangover and a good deal of soreness, I dutifully started in on my first walk of shame ever, and felt super empowered by the whole thing.

Later that day I got his number off our mutual friend and we saw each other again later that week. It was not terribly hot, but it got the first couple times over with, and that was what I wanted out of it.

Literally that same week I went on a date with a great guy, and given that I had gotten the v-card business out of the way, I was far more relaxed about the whole thing (although I made him wait 4 whole dates to sleep with me, and didn't tell him about my limited experience for a month after that), and we've been together for 8 months now.

Honestly, it was super discouraging to feel like I was the last virgin on earth, but when it finally happened, I was old enough and self-aware enough to be in control of the situation, and of my response to it, and I'm totally glad I didn't force things before I was ready to take the driver's seat. You will absolutely be okay.

leonstj

Lunchtime: Leon and Lady-Coworker discussing question two. (It's like saying you like pizza, but you just can't stand cheese, so no cheese on the pizza. You don't really like pizza then.)

End of Day: Leon collects coins from his desk to take to coinstar (sorry lady in the 2nd to last question, leon is just not your type I guess). And then I announce.

"My hand smells like pennies".

Thank you a dude/lady who asked him, for what is now the best inside joke ever.

Connor

Okay, I need some help from some ladies form the comments. My case is time -sensitive and the Ask A Lady lady isn't going to be back until at least Monday.

I met a girl at a party last Saturday. It was an after party for a local music awards show, and we were at a ball room at a hotel. We bantered for a while and then exchanged numbers in the middle of the party. I talked to one of her friends shortly after and she said her friend thought I was funny/cute and that I should make sure to call her, and I had her endorsement. Everything was aces. We went our separate ways and I continued to drink and party with my friends.

We ended up at the same after party around 2AM (the time that bars close here) and as far as I know everything was fine. There was something like 100 people crammed into a very small second story apartment. We didn't talk at the party except for a few smiles and waves. The only problem I can think of is how impossibly sloppy I got. My flask emptied itself earlier in the night a little more quickly than I had anticipated.

When I called her on Monday it went straight to voicemail (discouraging) and I left a message asking for a date of a movie/desert afterwards. NOW, the real trouble. She didn't call me back, which is fine. Not the first or last time. BUT! I'm one of the those conventionally single guys who hasn't had a really long term girlfriend like, ever. I'm 21 and want to "settle down" ie. get into a relationship and do relationshipy things for a change. Girl was pretty and funny and OLDER than me which is totally against my normal grain.

I'm worried I may have been too drunk at the afterparty and that might have turned her off calling me back. Which is totally okay. I get that. But I had high hopes, and I'm thinking that, against conventional wisdom, of calling her again on Monday and asking for a second chance. Conventional wisdom says after the first message to not call back for fear of being creepy and stalkery and I totally get that. Should I call and ask for a second chance or is that too sad/pathetic?

LaMuda

The lady in question probably got sloppy drunk too, and was in the midst of evaluating her life choices when you rang. Did you tell her you're 21? That might've been a factor in her hesitancy to return the call. I don't mean to sound mean, but 21 is kind of a can-go-either-way age, for ladies mid-20s and older.

theinvisiblecunt

Do you mean straight to voicemail as in, her phone might have been turned off/out of time?

Connor

No rings. Perfectly reasonable reason, but I didn't want to take the chance. I either risk a second call and she did get the voicemail that I left and I look like a total creepo who doesn't get messages, or there's a reasonable answer for everything and she was just out of minutes? But she probably would have re-upped since then, and received the voicemail and I still haven't heard. So it's unlikely.

theinvisiblecunt

When I run out of time on my (lame/shitty) phone, I don't get messages/texts left during that time even after I re-up. Also, if I turn my phone off or the battery dies, I don't get notices about messages I received when it was off and on my older and shittier phone I didn't even receive the messages sometimes. Just throwing that out there to present the Too Poor For A Good Phone/Doesn't Care About Phones Enough perspective.
I don't know what I'd do if I were you but for what it's worth, I don't think she could have held your sloppiness against you if you guys didn't even talk (and I don't think anybody going to afterafterparties has the high ground to hold that sort of thing against others; she was probably getting sloppydrunk in the other end of the apartment) so good luck sorting things out.

Connor

I can't recall, but she's not OLD old. She's only 22. I meant that mostly because every girl I've been with in any capacity has been either my age or younger than me.

Katie Walsh

Connor Simpson! You're gonna call or text that girl again, but just one more time. If it went straight to vm, it doesn't count, phone could have been off, whatever. If you want to go out with her, at least one more contact will not be creepy. After that, STOP, STOP I tell you. Say something like, great meeting you, wanted to see if you wanted to hang out sometime, let me know what works for you. Ball's in her court. If no response, go on brush your shoulder off and move on. It was not for lack of trying.

Connor

Katie Walsh, you are the greatest and I'm so happy I started commenting here/following you on tumblr.

I'm drunk and so many things make me :3 when I'm drunk. I'll post an update in a few days whenever I figure out what the heck is going on with this. It'll prolly be in the NEXT ask a dude b/c who isn't useless on the weekends.

Edith Zimmerman

Seconded Katie's advice. Let us know how it goes!

cee
cee

ok so i take it no-one else had difficulty for a second there parsing "grown ass Oral-Loving Dude"?

i thought i'd skipped back to the last Ask A Lady and was stuck in some kind of infinite advice loop.

Etruscan Duck

Less like pennies, and more like a 12-volt battery.

Horseback.beggar

I love that there are so many people out there that take some time out to give advice. With the realization that this site has a high entertainment factor, I think the writers and commenters who are willing to relate there own history to help others make it so much better.

polythenepam

Asker of question #2 here. For the record, this guy is 23 and I'm 25. Not exactly a Mrs. Robinson scenario. Plus I think 19 or so might be the cut off for acceptable lack of enthusiam re: going down. The masculinity comment was definitely a red flag with DTMFA written all over it, but then of course my next inclination was that I'll be doing him and all the other women he sleeps with a HUGE favor by letting him know what's what, as some commenters had suggested. However, I ultimately decided that he's not a nonprofit I'm interning at. I figure maybe someone younger than him will be willing to put up with him and maybe they can work it out together.
I'm glad this got people discussing sexual power plays, etc– you all brought up great points. Thanks for the advice.

inbed

Vs taste like sunshine and rainbows, i'm pretty sure.

jill
http://inbedwithmarriedwomen.blogspot.com

k14
k14

best a dude yet. created a hairpin account just to let y'all know.

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